Posts by Hondo

51

Wife joining, but I don't want the kids to get all brainwashed

by Check_Your_Premises in

my wife is joining.

she feels that the choice is between nothing and god, and that the only way to have a relationship with god is through these people.

i have accepted that.

Hondo

Check_Your_Premises

A defining moment in my life, and a prime indicator that I had, for the most part lost my wife (ex-wife) to the control of the Watchtower Society, was on a night when she had one of her meetings. She was suppose to answer some questions or something. Anyway, I asked that she skid the meeting so that just here and I could go out, have a nice dinner, and just spend some quality time together. It took a little persuading (a normal wife would have just said yes and the fact that I had to persuade her bothered me) but she finally said ok, but she need to call someone (probably an elder) to say she would not be attending that nights meeting. I could tell immediately after she told whomever that she would not be at the meeting that the conversation turned one-way, my then wife being the listener. In almost the same motion she hung up the phone, grabbed her bag with books, etc., and was out the door mumbling something she was going to die. I did not follow or make a big issue of it after she returned home, about 2 hours later. She acted as though nothing had happen. Another similar incident happened on a Saturday. I live in Hawaii and we were suppose to go to beach, and just do a little driving, just the two of us. At the last minute she claim she had to go to her KH and clean the place up. She returned about 3 hours later pretty much ruining out day. In both instances she was not strong enough to tell the elder, or whomever, that she couldn't do what they wanted her to because she was going to spend time with her husband. To this day I find it hard to believe, and understand, the control the JW's and Society has over my ex, and any other JW I would suspect. The said jump, she asked how high. The said give us money, she asked how much, and so on...It was this bad.

These instances were just the beginnings of the end, and eventually it did when we were divorced in 2003. We/I would have competed for time together for the rest of our lives. Base on the above, and based on other minor incidences and altercations, I would have lost out to the Society 99% of the time I figured. She took the term "nonbelieving mate" ( I was not her husband, the Watchtower Society now was) quite literally and that's how I was treated. I was number 10 on her priority list of 10. I could have maintained this way of life, in her eyes as a second class person, competing with her and the Watchtower Society for the rest of our lives, or severed our relationship and gone off and led a normal life. The rest is history. I do miss her very much, but have accepted the fact that she is probably happier now than when we were married. Maybe in time she will come to her senses, but I doubt it.

I really hope it works out ok for you. Take care.

51

Wife joining, but I don't want the kids to get all brainwashed

by Check_Your_Premises in

my wife is joining.

she feels that the choice is between nothing and god, and that the only way to have a relationship with god is through these people.

i have accepted that.

Hondo

Check_Your_Premises

I hate to rain on you party, to an extent, but I tried a lot of the things you are about to. It did not work out too well. I am not a JW, but have known about them and their destructive practices since I was about 10 years old (A family I delivered the newpaper to way back when were JW's. I knew the daughter pretty well. Long story short, she eventually died because of the blood issue. This bothered me then and still does to this day). Anyway, My wife decided to go out on her own and join the JW's. The kids (son and daughter now grown and not JW's) and I attended a christian church regularly, without wife/mother, although she was invited to accompany us.

The door knocker visited while I was at sea (I am Navy retired) and kids were in school, and the rest is history. I did the "really try to understand and love her" bit for awhile. Our marriage was taking hits because of her involvement so we made a contract of sorts between us stating that our relationship and family was first and formost and we should make these work before anything else, even religion; We both agreed explicitly. It seemed to work ok for awhile. She missed some meetings and some service door-to-door to engage in time with me, on occasion, and to do things with the family...normal people family stuff. This did not last long. After missing too many meetings she started getting the phone calls, from elders I suppose. Our "contract" all of a sudden became null and void. Our marriage, and family for the most part, became secondary to her involvement with the JW's and the Watchtower. From this point on it pretty much went downhill. We argued a lot. She explained to me that she would not be able to live in her paradise on earth because she was not as active as she should be. And on, and on, and on...

I made the mistake of playing "bible ping pong" with her. Although I could difinitively show that she was wrong on many doctrines, I could not break here out of the JW/Watchtower paradigm she was in. They had/have her packaged and wrapped very well and she listened and took counsel from them without question, and of course still does. She is/was still close to the children (they see the loonacy in the organization and refuse any involvement, thank God), but as a husband I felt I had become just an object in her life; a very lonely feeling. I felt she divorced me, in a sense, when she first joined and started her study and attending meetings. Her new partner, and new relationship, had now become the JW's and Watchtower.

Anyway, after 20 years of marriage we were divorced. Although I did the paperwork, she was elated. I probably would have done a lot of things differently when I found out of her initial involvement (she kept this a secret from me. I did not find out about her attending meetings, etc., until about 6 months after her first contact), although I believe we still would have eventually divorced. She lived/lives for the Watchtower Society and nothing else, this was/is very evident. What is sad, is that before her involvement we were as close as a couple could be. I loved her dearly, and still do.

97

In the last days there will be a witness to all the inhabited earth........

by holly in

jw
friends

and then the end will come.. something like that!!.

so, for those who believe the bible, who are these people and what scripture would back that?.

holly

Hondo

Good words Adelmaal except you are a bit in err when you say " We have the Bible just as Jesus and his disciples did." Jesus and his disciples did not have a bible. Very few of the good words back in the time of Jesus were in writing, most were word of mouth only. As you know, nothing was actually written about Jesus' time on earth until the end of the 1st century. The first bible, called the vulgate, written in latin, did not come out until late 300, early 400AD.

111

My wife is getting baptized on the 19th!

by Check_Your_Premises in

my wife is getting baptized on the 19th.. i wrote her a letter today.

basically i asked her why she isn't coming to me to find out my concerns.

i am the person who has the most invested in her.

Hondo

I emphathise with you Check_Your_Premises, the exact same thing happened to me. In my situation (I was in Navy at the time, stationed overseas in Japan (my ex-wife is a Japanese National). Ship I was on was deployed, and kids in school) it was all a matter of timing. They (JW's) came, took her over, and destroyed my marriage, my family, and my life. She kept her entire involvement from me (I suspect she was advise by her bible teacher not to tell me of her JW involvement, or to tell her mother, father or sisters) until I confronted her after I found a couple of her Watchtower and awake magazines she had squirled away. This initial confrontation year was circa 1994 and everything went downhill from there. Although we were legally married, I felt as soon a she came under their control she divorced me. I was not the part of her life I had been; I simply became an object in her life. Me, our children, and our family became 8, 9, and 10 on her priority list of 10 most important things in her life. Meetings, bible study and selling magazines took the place of us going out to dinner, or attending some other function. It was dismal, from my perspective. Nothing I said could convince her that she was headed down the wrong path. I, unfortunately, became very angry with her, which just reenforced her intensity within the JW's. She was baptized in 98 or 99, not sure, again she did not tell me, nor would I have been able to do anything anyway. Divorce was eventually granted in 2003, and although it was something she, as a JW, was not permitted to request, was elated when it was granted. I did all the paperwork, but only did it because she wanted it. I'm not sure I could have gone through the rest of me life (we were married for 20 years) dividing my time, and life, between a cult and my life in the normal, sane, world. I sometime look back a few years and think that I should hung in there and tried to get help for her.

Story of my life. Hope everything works out ok for you.

39

JW Underground

by Hondo in

i recently read an article about jw's that, if had the choice, would probably leave because of the deceptions, lies, etc., but don't because of family, friends, prestige, whatever, and instead lead a make-believe life going through the motions of being a loyal and believing follower of the watchtower organization.

most of those purported to be part of this non-believing/participating, but attending, jw population, are folks that have been associated with the jw's for a number of years, but, as many have, decided that the lies and constant changes (new light) just don't make sense anymore.

i would suspect that identifying those who just "go through the motions" of being a good jw would be difficult.

Hondo

I recently read an article about JW's that, if had the choice, would probably leave because of the deceptions, lies, etc., but don't because of family, friends, prestige, whatever, and instead lead a make-believe life going through the motions of being a loyal and believing follower of the Watchtower organization. Most of those purported to be part of this non-believing/participating, but attending, JW population, are folks that have been associated with the JW's for a number of years, but, as many have, decided that the lies and constant changes (new light) just don't make sense anymore.

I would suspect that identifying those who just "go through the motions" of being a good JW would be difficult. But then again, maybe not, I don't know. Has anyone else heard of this? Is this "underground" (if there is one) prevelant? The Christians of old use to meet in secret places and even had a specialized coded language they used when they conversed with each other. Could this also be happening as well with the "closet JW's", if there are any?

Just curious. Thoughts/comments welcomed. Thanks

69

watchtower red flags

by Ticker in

jw
friends

when i was studying and in the org i never did put two and two together becuase first off it was peer pressure and a young baptism age.

i was indoctrinated as a child so i never got a chance to ever use sound reason and judgement toword the validity of the society's claims.

but anywho i was thinking the other day about certain things that are obvious red flags and far fetched claims that the org makes.

Hondo

"The beliefes are to do with the main teachings of the Bible.. eg no trinity etc. all the core things...Agin the Bible has to be the meassuring stick if we belive it."

JW Ben, you appear to be a very intelligent person, at least you write as you may be. I don't quite understand you statement above, "the main teachings of the Bible.. eg no trinity etc." I know this is what the JW's teach, as well as other non-christian sect/cults, and is what the Watchtower Society has proclaimed that all of its followers must believe. But, if you sit down and just "read" the Bible, which I supect you have, without any outside interference, such as the bizzare interpretations of the society, you can only come to the conclusion of the concept of a triune God, a Trinity. This idea starts in the book of Genisis, is and is continued into the New Testament. The word Trinity is not mentioned, which is ok, there are a lot of concepts and ideas that are practiced today not mentioned in the Bible.

The Bible is not the "rulebook" of life, but rather the "Guide". If was not even written for us! It was written for the people of 2000-3000 years ago. For goodness sake, if if wasn't for the Catholics, we would not even have a bible today. If someone is going to base his or her entire life solely on the Bible, the inspired, infallible, word of God, then that person had better know that the organization he or she belongs to is inspired and infallible and interprets the Bible correctly. The JW's do a pretty poor job at this, to say the least. To claim to be God earthly "chosen" organization, a Prophet, yet not be able to get predictions correct over the past 130 years, does not quite cut it.

69

watchtower red flags

by Ticker in

jw
friends

when i was studying and in the org i never did put two and two together becuase first off it was peer pressure and a young baptism age.

i was indoctrinated as a child so i never got a chance to ever use sound reason and judgement toword the validity of the society's claims.

but anywho i was thinking the other day about certain things that are obvious red flags and far fetched claims that the org makes.

Hondo

I had a visit by a couple very nice JW's doing their Door-to-door. I listened to the salesman pitch, which was the one about "being in the neighborhood, etc., etc... When they were done I asked them two questions; 1) what do the JW's have to offer that other similar groups don't, and 2) there are probably 10-15 other groups that offer similar plans for salvation; why yours. Again, why should should I listen to their thoughts and ideas and not the 7th Day Aventist, or the Catholics with their 2000 + or - years of history.

They were somewhat baffled to say the least, but went into their best effort to show me bible quotes justifying JW's as the best (I was not convinced). We talked about past "mistakes" and "predictions" associated with either the society as a whole, or people in the society. The explained that people makes mistakes, then went on and talked about the "new light" theory and how the light gets brighter as time goes. I then told then that if I were to join any organization I would want it to be the purest as possible. I mentioned to them the past failed predictions, the apparent epidemic of child abuse in the JW's, blood policy (suicidal), and flip-flops and doctrinal mistakes, such as organ transplants and immunizations, that probably caused thousands of death between the time they were banned by the society and the time they were allowed. I asked about the "annointed ones", specifically, how many there were now, and how someone knew he or she (are there female annointed ones?) was annointed? Did someone "just know", or did they get a visit from an angel? The could not answer. They knew they were not annointed though.

All-in-all I enjoyed my time with them. I ended the visit by telling them that I would love to chat with them again sometime, but would probably want to read and study more about society (other than just JW's publications). I told them that it seemed to me that If I someone were thinking about signing up with the JW's, and wanted to feel confident that what was learned in a particular month or year would not change during the next, it would be worth waiting until all the "new light(s)" had reach a point were there were no more "new light(s)", in otherwords, the society and the JW's would be at their purest point. They weren't sure how long the new light concept would be going on. The left with a semi-promise to come back, and, in my opinion, somewhat confused.

4

Another Death due to blood refusal

by Hondo in

did anyone watch the medical reality show, "critical hour", about a week ago?

for those that have never watched it before it follows the first few hours of emergency treatment of actual victims of car accidents, gun shot wounds, normal accidents, etc.

one of the victims of the show of a week or so ago was a elderly woman (70+), and a jehovah witenss.

Hondo

Did anyone watch the medical reality show, "Critical Hour", about a week ago? For those that have never watched it before it follows the first few hours of emergency treatment of actual victims of car accidents, gun shot wounds, normal accidents, etc. One of the victims of the show of a week or so ago was a elderly woman (70+), and a Jehovah Witenss. She apparently had a serious fall and was bleeding pretty severely in and around the brain. To survive, she required immediate surgery to relieve the pressure within the head, which would have meant a necessary blood transfusion. Her husband, and another accompanying JW, was told that she would more than likely die without the surgery. To make a long story short the husband quoted JW beliefs, during a conversation with the doctor, stating that they were strong in their belief and that was that...The show ended with a report from the doctor that the wife had in fact died as a result of her injuries.

I'm not a JW and have a very hard time unerstanding how a husband, as in this case, can just sit back and watch his wife die...Why??? It seems suicidal and murderous all at the same time. Suicidal in that if she were conscious she may or may not have refused a transfusion and let herself die. Murderous in that her husband could have saved here life by simply saying yes, save my wifes life, to the doctors. I've read the various scripture passages the JW's quote justifying their refusal to transfuse blood and do not see how anyone, or organization, can interpret the quotes the way they do. It is obvious they are talking about animal blood, and, at least the way I read it, applicable to Jewish people only. How many JW's have died because of this insane belief? How many children?

Life is so precious. To let it simply pass away because of a rediculous belief is sad.

26

Brought up as a Witness

by newbie-australia in

jw
friends

i'm a newbie to anything like this.

are most people here ex-jws?.

anyone brought up as witnesses from birth?.

Hondo

Was anyone ever reversed shunned? In other words, because you joined the JW's did your non-JW friends or non-JW family members refuse to have anything to to do with you because they felt you joined a cult, or for some other reason? My ex-wife joined at the age of 55 years (two years ago). Although I did not shun her I had great difficulty dealing with her attending numerous meetings and spending many hours away from home (this eventually led to our divorce). Her two sisters and mother essentially do not want anything to do with her anymore because they feel she destroyed my family and marriage, and because they more or less equate the JW's with the Aum Shin Riku cult in Japan (sisters and mother are all Japanese Nationals). It is not a hateful type shunning, but more one of fear; fear my ex will spend her time trying to convert them, which is not the way they want to remember her, and as a result do not desire her to visit or spend time with them. It's a sad situation all-a-round.

18

What the hell are DUP

by BigG in

.

im new to this site so please dont laugh when i ask this...but i am having difficulties with the terminologies.. what are they?.

g

Hondo

I say that entry Valis. Did I miss something? Other that DUB being slang for a witness, what are it origins? Is it an acronym? thanks.