Posts by AlmostAtheist

52

Incredibly aggressive email I received from a JW

by jwfacts in

i put the following comment on answers.yahoo.com about changes to watchtower revelation doctrine.

there have been three different versions of god given light in the watchtower publications so far;.

1. calvin studies in the scriptures series vii- the finished mystery p.151 "calvin is entitled to the honor of having at one time been a papal star .... is called wormwood.

AlmostAtheist

>>what you do not realize is that in the bible God says that the light of knowledge will continue to get brighter for his true servants.

The brainwashing is working! This JW believes that verse in Proverbs is talking about the Watchtower's "New Light".

It's almost eerie to know that people are walking around with those sorts of gods-gonna-git-ya thoughts in their heads, isn't it?

It isn't my imagination, is it, that the people who choose to write these types of emails almost always have poor spelling/grammar? I'm not a snob, and I make my share of such errors, but it seems that this sort of letter and poor spelling/grammar go hand in hand. (In this case, grammar and improper word usage takes center stage, while spelling isn't a problem. Perhaps spell check was used?)

Dave

26

Angels

by Nazarene in

jw
friends

hey "i am a newbie poster" and would like a running start here with a problem i have to solve.

a certain bible-reading friend thinks that her apartment is full of angels.

in last week's discussion of angels, i understand that an angel is only sent by god to certain people in order to complete specific messages from jehovah.

AlmostAtheist

>>I don't contradict their existence, but if we suppose so then could they not be demons in disguise?

Following on FF's comment, it seems that you're just seeing a difference of opinion. Hers (angels) and yours (demons). In either case, they are just unproven and unprovable opinions. She's likely to catch a cold, lose some cash, and have an appliance break down, so you might assume they were demons. But she's also going to win $20 in the lottery, bake a perfect loaf of bread, and finally catch that one episode of Sex in the City that she's kept missing, so she'll conclude they're angels.

You'll only cause conflict between you both if you press this, and surely accomplish nothing good. Just let it go, Man.

Dave

6

Emmaus Way

by Cleopas in

jw
friends

i have come buy today to announce a new ecumenical christian internet fellowship and forum community.

it's fairly young and still being expanded/modified so as to be more inclusive.

it's called emmaus way.

AlmostAtheist

Apparently the poster thinks this is a forum for active JW's. I searched for similarly worded posts on Google and found this same notice at http://www.christianchurchtoday.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4305. Amusingly, it ISN'T quite the same. In the version sent to us -- presumably JW's -- it says:

>>We even have a section for the fringe groups which may or may not normally be considered Christian.

But in the version sent to the "non-fringe group" above, that same sentence reads:

>>We even have a section for the fringe groups and self proclaimed "Christian" groups and/or cults (we need to defend the gospel and help convert them from the error of their ways, right?).

LOL!

Dave of the "Dave's Way" class

17

JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES AND JADE JEWELRY

by HappyDad in

i had to listen to jw craziness starting in 1960 when my mother started studying.

recently, i was reading paul and pat blizard's website and came across "101 strange beliefs and practices of jehovah's witnesses".

granted.......some of these beliefs have gone by the wayside because of bud light.... i mean new light!

AlmostAtheist

>>The Chinese came to think of jade ... as something that might be used to promote intercourse

Anybody know where I can score some jade?!?!? ;-)

Dave

91

The Watchtower and Creation

by AlanF in

it struck me this past year, with respect to jw teachings about the timing of genesis 1, that even in things that really have no impact on what most jws think of as "core doctrine" the watchtower society sticks to its traditions over what the bible says.

this was again brought home in the september, 2006 awake!

17 between me and the sons of israel it is a sign to time indefinite, because in six days jehovah made the heavens and the earth and on the seventh day he rested and proceeded to refresh himself.

AlmostAtheist

With respect, Mad, did you read the scriptures Alan cited from Exodus?

I think the point is that these verses aren't as ambiguous as those in Genesis and don't easily allow for the idea that the earth was around for billions of years prior to creative day 1. Rather, they lump the creation of heaven and earth into that 6-day period.

Nark's apologetic argument is -- as he would admit, I think -- weak. It's arguable that God "made" light in the sense that he made it visible to an imaginary observer on the earth. But how could the heavens and earth be "made" in that sense? I can't think of a way to interpret "made" here that doesn't suggest creation.

The quote from the Watchtower, suggesting that the "heavens" from Exodus refers to the atmosphere seems absurd considering that the earth is also said to have been made. Yet they never touch on that.

I suppose one could argue that the heavens from Exodus refer to the atmosphere, and it was "made" in the sense that it was prepared to support life. And the earth was "made" in a similar prepared sense. But that seems like an unwarranted twisting of the verses to fit an existing belief. I can't imagine people 3+ millenia ago interpreting those verses in that manner.

You're a relatively free-thinking JW, Mad. You're not mentally bound to believe whatever the Watchtower spews. So what do YOU personally think? How do you reconcile a billions-year-old earth with the Exodus reference Alan cited?

Dave

91

The Watchtower and Creation

by AlanF in

it struck me this past year, with respect to jw teachings about the timing of genesis 1, that even in things that really have no impact on what most jws think of as "core doctrine" the watchtower society sticks to its traditions over what the bible says.

this was again brought home in the september, 2006 awake!

17 between me and the sons of israel it is a sign to time indefinite, because in six days jehovah made the heavens and the earth and on the seventh day he rested and proceeded to refresh himself.

AlmostAtheist

Wow Alan, that's some good stuff. I never noticed that in Exodus before. Pretty well closes the door on that "open-ended" beginning crap, doesn't it? Very cool...

Dave

11

Didya ever notice that the cited scriptures often didn't make the point?

by AlmostAtheist in

jw
friends

even when i was a faithful dub, it used to bother me that the watchtower would make some point, then cite a scripture that didn't prove that point at all.

i saw time and again where they would say something like, "just as jehovah created the universe, so the faithful and discreet slave is leading his human creation today.

(gen 1:1)" and if you bothered to check the reference, you realized the point that actually needed substantiated was not covered by the verse.

AlmostAtheist

A somewhat better example, from that same link:

The rebellious angels escaped destruction at the time of the Flood. They abandoned their fleshly bodies and returned to the spirit realm as spirit creatures. Thereafter, they are referred to as demons. They put themselves on the side of Satan the Devil, who is called “the ruler of the demons.” (Matthew 12:24-27)

Several statements are made; angels escaped the flood, abandoned their bodies, returned to somewhere, got the name 'Demons' -- but the scripture cited at the end doesn't make any of those points. It merely calls Satan the 'ruler of the demons'. Moreover, that's verse 24. Verses 25-27 add nothing to the discussion, but they DO make the reference longer. Maybe I'm being overly paranoid, but I think it's reasonable that they included the extra verses as padding, in the hopes that you wouldn't bother to look it up.

Dave

11

Didya ever notice that the cited scriptures often didn't make the point?

by AlmostAtheist in

jw
friends

even when i was a faithful dub, it used to bother me that the watchtower would make some point, then cite a scripture that didn't prove that point at all.

i saw time and again where they would say something like, "just as jehovah created the universe, so the faithful and discreet slave is leading his human creation today.

(gen 1:1)" and if you bothered to check the reference, you realized the point that actually needed substantiated was not covered by the verse.

AlmostAtheist

Here's one. It's not as weak as some I've seen, but it's a good start. From the box "How Angels Are Organized" at http://www.watchtower.org/e/20060115/article_02.htm

The angel foremost in power and authority is Michael the archangel, or Jesus Christ. (1 Thessalonians 4:16; Jude 9)

A casual read by a JW would leave him believing that those two cited verses prove that Jesus is Michael. When in reality they don't do that at all.

Dave

11

Didya ever notice that the cited scriptures often didn't make the point?

by AlmostAtheist in

jw
friends

even when i was a faithful dub, it used to bother me that the watchtower would make some point, then cite a scripture that didn't prove that point at all.

i saw time and again where they would say something like, "just as jehovah created the universe, so the faithful and discreet slave is leading his human creation today.

(gen 1:1)" and if you bothered to check the reference, you realized the point that actually needed substantiated was not covered by the verse.

AlmostAtheist

>>uh,oh Dave, your treading into creation be very careful you might actually believe in God again. (LOL)

Oh God, No!!!! :-P

I'll poke around a bit and see what I can find. Unfortunately, Watchtowers aren't thick on the ground around my place, so no promises.

Dave

11

Didya ever notice that the cited scriptures often didn't make the point?

by AlmostAtheist in

jw
friends

even when i was a faithful dub, it used to bother me that the watchtower would make some point, then cite a scripture that didn't prove that point at all.

i saw time and again where they would say something like, "just as jehovah created the universe, so the faithful and discreet slave is leading his human creation today.

(gen 1:1)" and if you bothered to check the reference, you realized the point that actually needed substantiated was not covered by the verse.

AlmostAtheist

Even when I was a faithful dub, it used to bother me that the Watchtower would make some point, then cite a scripture that didn't prove that point at all. I saw time and again where they would say something like, "Just as Jehovah created the universe, so the faithful and discreet slave is leading his human creation today. (Gen 1:1)" And if you bothered to check the reference, you realized the point that actually needed substantiated was not covered by the verse.

I used to brag to potential Bible Study's that the books were peppered with scriptural references, opening at random and pointing to various cited scriptures. But even then I knew that some of them were just "fluff".

Ok, I totally feel dirty now. Sorry, all you potential Bible Study's, won't happen again!

Dave