Posts by ko38

21

Is it right for Man to rule Man?

by ko38 in

hello once again to those that were helpful to me in my time of leaving the wbts.i said i wouldnt post for a while,but it turns out ive learned a lot in the past 2 weeks.so here goes with my shot of seeing if im adjusting according to schedule.. in my search of my own christian freedom i have found myself led down a path that is a simple one.that being the path of acceptance.the acceptance of my own sinful nature and that of others.im not saying that it is coming easy,i am only saying that i see the need.. imho when looking for salvation i myself feel that it is not to us to judge.several of us agree on that.but that is not easy for us to do as humans,i was looking for someone or something to replace the wbts but after some personal study of the scriptures and some help from all the links and archives here i have come to a point of humility.. in all things in this world the one thing we want most is love.what does that mean?

some may say it means the love of a spouse or the love recieved from your children etc...i know being both a married man with a wife that loves me and i her that those bonds are strong and bring comfort.my children for both myself and my wife bring a sense of joy to our hearts and we love them.. i think i might be at least on the right track when i feel love for those other than my family.the story about the good sammaritan is a very good example.to be loving to those who otherwise do not have your best interest at heart is the challenge that jesus christ has set before us.. this is more directed towards new ones out of the grip of the watchtower bible and tract societys dogmatic and unsupported claims to be the only channel to salvation.which upon minimal searching of the truth is proved both false and misleading.. jehovahs witnesses find it difficult to realise that their salvation is in jesus.most often only mentioning him as we pray through or in his name.

i wonder at least for myself, if god isnt trying his hardest to wait until we see how simple salvation really is.he has given us a way to be forgiven and so many choose not to make full use of it.when all it may have very well taken was a belief in jesus and a turning around of our sins.. wow,that sure beats the things we all for the most part have gone through with the jws.to be bitter is not a loving course,because most are bitter with god after coming out of an oppresive cult as the jws.god nor jesus told us to do this it was our fault and satans.why not have the love for god once again and believe in the ransom that jesus paid.. mans religion will always lead to sorrow lets please all have the hope and love of the savior our lord jesus christ..........ken

ko38

Sat anus, To be a leader in lets say sports,one would need knowlege and great talent as well as a desire and ability to help and teach others.this analogy applies to many endeavors wouldnt you agree?some lead and some follow that is true,some lead in acadamia some phsyical things.

I myself have been what you may call a leader for most of my life.im a salesman mostly in windows and siding for peoples homes.I show up at someones house after our phone room has called them to give them a free estimate.

90% of the people i visit with have no intention of buying on the same day that i come out to see them.However in about 2 hours time i manage to persuade through facts and figures and good ole charm 60% of the people i see to go ahead and buy the same day im there and give ME a total stranger a downpayment always in the thousands sometimes tens of thousands.

i have hired and trained and managed hundreds of sales reps in my career.So yes perhaps in that way i am a leader.however i see many leader type people in the wtbts and they are not elders or etc.Most all of those believe what they are being taught and have respect for those doing the teaching.So i guess leaders can be followers as well.

Especially can someone be a follower of a belief,(which i feel is what your real reference was to)when thats all theyve ever known as was my case from age 5 on up.Leaders can be made to be followers through environment brainwashing,indoctrination at a young age as well as by their own choice if the new idea is embraced and suitable emotion is involved ie WE CAN MAKE YOU LIVE FOREVER.

So really to be a leader or a follower is relative to the circumstances.Do i wish i had someone to Give me all the answers?You bet.Is there anyone on this earth that has all the answers ?I DONT THINK SO.

My reason for my post was not to preach,but rather to maybe help those that think a human can save them find out that no man will/or woman.all i could hope for is that the 1 perfect person on earth a long time ago will not forget me and guide my life through an example left for me and us . Bless you.

21

Is it right for Man to rule Man?

by ko38 in

hello once again to those that were helpful to me in my time of leaving the wbts.i said i wouldnt post for a while,but it turns out ive learned a lot in the past 2 weeks.so here goes with my shot of seeing if im adjusting according to schedule.. in my search of my own christian freedom i have found myself led down a path that is a simple one.that being the path of acceptance.the acceptance of my own sinful nature and that of others.im not saying that it is coming easy,i am only saying that i see the need.. imho when looking for salvation i myself feel that it is not to us to judge.several of us agree on that.but that is not easy for us to do as humans,i was looking for someone or something to replace the wbts but after some personal study of the scriptures and some help from all the links and archives here i have come to a point of humility.. in all things in this world the one thing we want most is love.what does that mean?

some may say it means the love of a spouse or the love recieved from your children etc...i know being both a married man with a wife that loves me and i her that those bonds are strong and bring comfort.my children for both myself and my wife bring a sense of joy to our hearts and we love them.. i think i might be at least on the right track when i feel love for those other than my family.the story about the good sammaritan is a very good example.to be loving to those who otherwise do not have your best interest at heart is the challenge that jesus christ has set before us.. this is more directed towards new ones out of the grip of the watchtower bible and tract societys dogmatic and unsupported claims to be the only channel to salvation.which upon minimal searching of the truth is proved both false and misleading.. jehovahs witnesses find it difficult to realise that their salvation is in jesus.most often only mentioning him as we pray through or in his name.

i wonder at least for myself, if god isnt trying his hardest to wait until we see how simple salvation really is.he has given us a way to be forgiven and so many choose not to make full use of it.when all it may have very well taken was a belief in jesus and a turning around of our sins.. wow,that sure beats the things we all for the most part have gone through with the jws.to be bitter is not a loving course,because most are bitter with god after coming out of an oppresive cult as the jws.god nor jesus told us to do this it was our fault and satans.why not have the love for god once again and believe in the ransom that jesus paid.. mans religion will always lead to sorrow lets please all have the hope and love of the savior our lord jesus christ..........ken

ko38

Hello once again to those that were helpful to me in my time of leaving the wbts.i said i wouldnt post for a while,but it turns out Ive learned a lot in the past 2 weeks.So here goes with my shot of seeing if im adjusting according to schedule.

in my search of my own christian freedom i have found myself led down a path that is a simple one.that being the path of Acceptance.The acceptance of my own sinful nature and that of others.Im not saying that it is coming easy,I am only saying that I see the need.

IMHO when looking for salvation i myself feel that it is not to us to judge.Several of US agree on that.BUT THAT IS NOT EASY FOR US TO DO AS HUMANS,I was looking for someone or something to replace the wbts but after some personal study of the scriptures and some help from all the links and archives here I have come to a point of humility.

In all things in this world the one thing we want most is love.What does that mean? Some may say it means the love of a spouse or the love recieved from your children etc...I know being both a married man with a wife that loves me and I her that those bonds are strong and bring comfort.my children for both myself and my wife bring a sense of joy to our hearts and we love them.

I THINK I MIGHT BE at least on the right track when i feel love for those other than my family.The story about the good Sammaritan is a very good example.To be loving to those who otherwise do not have your best interest at heart is the challenge that Jesus christ has set before us.

This is more directed towards new ones out of the grip of the watchtower bible and tract societys dogmatic and unsupported claims to be the only channel to salvation.Which upon minimal searching of the truth is proved both false and misleading.

Jehovahs witnesses find it difficult to realise that their salvation is in jesus.Most often only mentioning him as we pray through or in his name

I wonder at least for myself, if God isnt trying his hardest to wait until we see how simple salvation really is.He has given us a way to be forgiven and so many choose not to make FULL USE OF IT.when all it may have very well taken was a belief in jesus and a turning around of our sins.

WOW,that sure beats the things we all for the most part have gone through with the jws.to be bitter is not a loving course,because most are bitter with GOD after coming out of an oppresive cult as the jws.God nor Jesus told us to do this it was our fault and Satans.Why not have the love for God once again and believe in the ransom that Jesus paid.

Mans religion will always lead to sorrow Lets please all have the hope and love of the savior our LORD JESUS CHRIST..........KEN

31

Out of Curiosity...Does Anyone Believe Anything They WereTaught??

by confuzzed in

i think the question speaks for itself?

while there is much we don't believe, there are some things we can't ignore.

anyone agree???

ko38

i also left for about 13 years then accepted a study again and believed whole heartedly.i even got my new unbelieving wife to attend meetings. my 12 year old daughter was baptised this summer at the convention.

my wife began doing research on the net and i discouraged her.she then purchased a book by Ray Franz former member of the governing body called crisis of conscience.she read me some of that and i told her to throw it away.well she didnt.we have the 2003 cd rom from the wtbts wich goes back to 1950 and she began comparing some quotes from wtbts that were used in rays book to prove them wrong.

or mostly to prove they twist scriptures and believe one thing for a while then change it quoting new light and then go back to the original belief quoting new light (flip flop) and they expect us not to catch it.well my wife caught it and since then we have tried to find sound scriptural support of the wtbts teachings.very difficult to do since they claim a divine power to interpret.

bottom line is they do lie then cover up then if you doubt the cover up you are dfd.typical cult practice.knowing too much about any group in history when youre on the inside will either get you promoted or shot depending on where your loyalty is. go to section on this site that gives the wt articles back from almost the beginning.

very interesting . good luck

36

If God did have a new system..would you want to be there?

by happehanna in

i was a witness for over forty years and for most of that time the "new world" "paradise" was not a place i ever wanted to live in.. there are many aspects of life in the 21st century that are great and i wouldn't want to give up.

tv, internet, blues/jazz clubs etc etc.. i may be shallow.

but there were other better reasons millions of people would have gone, wiped out by god: this never sat easy with me.. i told my elder father that i wouldn't want to live five minutes in god's new system, knowing that people i loved, had been killed by god because they didn't love him in the way he wanted.. just telling my father that has made me really wake up to how i really feel about my ex religion.. does a paradise earth as jw's depict appeal to you?

ko38

well sure it would be great.unfortunately there seems to be a little problem with regards to an everlasting paradise.NO ONE KNOWS IF IT EXISTS.most including myself have had at one point sought after it.when the fallicy is devulged in the BORG by whatever means or vehicle it comes one is faced with much the same tramatic experience as a person who bought a lottery ticket and has all the matching numbers.HOW GREAT THAT WOULD BE! then when you go to claim your prize you are told that the network that broadcasted the numbers was incorret and you in fact just lost a dollar. smack my butt and call me stupid because i believed it and still want to but how can we say what will happen unless we know?you have to die to know.

so i will take the advice of you fine folks and not get my heart set on anything.like i heard someone say here: if it happens thats a bonus and the dollar is well spent.

32

NO ONE WILL SAVE YOU EXCEPT YOURSELF,BE IN FEAR OF YOURSELF

by ko38 in

jw
friends

i think that pretty much says it all.we can all whine and groan about how the society has wronged us and how they are so self preserving and wrong , evil, false, controling decieving, self righteous,and whatever.those who speak of giving up or god is dead or now i smoke pot and god loves me or now i commit fornication and its okay or those that get drunk and say thats okay.man some of you sound like the apostate definition according to the society.the evil slave.in order not to allign yourself with satan your job i think is simple.stop doing wrong.

quit trying to have sex outside of marriage,smoking pot,lieing cheating and stealing.i dont care who you are you dont want to die.

ive tried it twice and am glad im still here.im no wuss either former power lifter very veril and have 4 children.some of you kill me with your live for today mentality.i have a hard time believing that you chose to leave rather than being disfellowshipped and just feel bitter.

ko38

i was re-reading In search of christian freedom by Fred Franz.i found something that disturbed me.on page459 on the topic of organization he says, in reality ,the scriptures show that Satan most often uses methods NOT TYPICAL OF, but directly OPPOSITE OF GODS.

he then states In view of that,how should we reasonably react to the claim regarding Satans development of a mighty visable and invisable as relates to the validity of a highly organized religious structure? he doesnt support that belief.anyway i took this to mean that satan would not set up an organization like jehovahs witnesses.WELL i was just starting to believe that they were from Satan and this made me feel as if i did the wrong thing.like OH NO DID I JUST COMMIT THE UNFORGIVABLE SIN?

well i was in a self damning mode by then.i came to the forum and was looking back at some old and older threads and found that many had made some comments that described some less than righteous behavior including same sex arrangements.i will say i read some very warm encouraging,thought provoking,educacational AND ALL AROUND FUNNY AND COOL STUFF.

upon reading the bad stuff though i (in my state of did i do the wrong thing?)began to think that if the forums members were to represent the truth of jws then they wouldnt talk like that.(now it sounds like some juvenile thinking that stems from dependancy)my comments about being a powerlifter i mean ex powerlifter(bad shoulder,knee and back now) and being verile with 4 kids was i guess my way of conveying that im not gay.im sorry if i offend anyone but i have always been homophobic.i dont try to persecute those who are gay or whatever its called these days,but i may have done so last night.(SORRY)

as far as the rest of my rant it was only directed to those posters that admittedly engaged in some of those behaviors.i know from reading former posts that most here are just like me or maybe better adjusted.OK DEFINATELY BETTER ADJUSTED.there are many that i am impressed with and would enjoy reading more of your posts and some who can and have tried to help me because they know what im going through,having been there themselves.(im not doing very good at it yet,i feel lost still and find myself searching for something to hold onto that is PERFECT.i guess it doesnt exist in this life.

i am very sorry for my statements if they hurt you,i did not make a thought out logical approach to who i was really talking to.in fact i think i was talking to myself.Hmmm thats scary.i have never really had much go right for me in life,but the one thing i thought i could always count on was jehovah.i guess it was mabe the society,maybe the hope,maybe the brothers and sistersI DONT KNOW.

i am very sorry it seems once again ive made the wrong choice in condeming instead of trying to help or be positive.i probobly wont post anymore because the last thing you guys (and gals) need is another newbie with security issues.

i sure hope someday things will make sense to me.........ko38

32

NO ONE WILL SAVE YOU EXCEPT YOURSELF,BE IN FEAR OF YOURSELF

by ko38 in

jw
friends

i think that pretty much says it all.we can all whine and groan about how the society has wronged us and how they are so self preserving and wrong , evil, false, controling decieving, self righteous,and whatever.those who speak of giving up or god is dead or now i smoke pot and god loves me or now i commit fornication and its okay or those that get drunk and say thats okay.man some of you sound like the apostate definition according to the society.the evil slave.in order not to allign yourself with satan your job i think is simple.stop doing wrong.

quit trying to have sex outside of marriage,smoking pot,lieing cheating and stealing.i dont care who you are you dont want to die.

ive tried it twice and am glad im still here.im no wuss either former power lifter very veril and have 4 children.some of you kill me with your live for today mentality.i have a hard time believing that you chose to leave rather than being disfellowshipped and just feel bitter.

ko38

i think that pretty much says it all.we can all whine and groan about how the society has wronged us and how they are so self preserving and wrong , EVIL, false, controling decieving, self righteous,and whatever.those who speak of giving up or god is dead or now i smoke pot and god loves me or now i commit fornication and its okay or those that get drunk and say thats okay.man some of you sound like the apostate definition according to the society.THE EVIL SLAVE.in order not to allign yourself with SATAN your job i think is simple.stop doing wrong.

quit trying to have sex outside of marriage,smoking pot,lieing cheating and stealing.i dont care who you are you dont want to die. ive tried it twice and am glad im still here.im no wuss either former power lifter very veril and have 4 children.some of you kill me with your live for today mentality.i have a hard time believing that you chose to leave rather than being disfellowshipped and just feel bitter.

what do you want for your kids and ,much least for yourself?ive not heard anyone give an example of teaching their children the christlike personality.god help us all for we surely need it...........................................................prove me wrong

10

"Jehovah our Rock, our strength, and our might..."

by Fleur in

jw
friends

in among the bags and boxes of keepsakes that my mother gave to me from my grandmother's belongings, something of an emotional nuclear bomb was hiding on me.

or more like a landmine; because i didn't realize the damage it could do until it was too late to do anything about it.

mom had given me first choice of most of grandma's things, knowing how close we were, and i had wanted the box of ancient k-mart brand cassette tapes, now 30 years old, which had recordings of her voice, and mine, when i was tiny.

ko38

your grandparents will be remembered in the book of life.i have just recently left the borg i guess is the pc term here. however i cant believe that a god of love will not remember someone so giving faithful and loving.it has become my belief that your salvation is within yourself.your grandparents had the love that jesus spoke of.take delight in hearing their voices.if you cry its because you miss them.

best wishes to you and yours...Ken

49

is there any concrete proof the JWs are wrong? Iam new here.

by Buck in

jw
friends

iam very new to this forum.

so glad to meet all of you.

ive been reading here for quite a while but never felt the need to join in.

ko38

been a jw kid since 6 yrs old and am i proud?NO do i need therapy ? yes.dont do it man just keep lookin. she may love you i know,but if you drag her away it will bug her until she bugs you to death to join her in everlasting stupidity. sorry but its the truth ........no pun intended

26

The system of privileges in WTS - any thoughts on how it works?

by Pole in

wts has quite a few traits which are typical of totalitarian systems.

many of them have been demonstrated on this board (labeling, shunning, monopoly on truth, propaganda, indoctrination, polarization of reality etc.)..

there is one more aspect of the wts religion which can also be observed in most totalitarian systems and that is the system of granting privileges.

ko38

i agree, ihave seen many even strive to have the best comment at the wt study or bk study.some strive to have the most comments.you can plainly see the amount of pride one gets when he is given the HONOR of handling the mics.get tapped for mservant forget about it your on your way baby parts on the ms school prayers at meetings.get tapped for elder and its the first step in being part of the controlling of others lives and a supreme esteem of the others wich are required to do so.

i am a salesman by trade and have managed a few sales organizations, my job primarily was to blue sky the sales force about their rewards and even more importantly their climb up the ladder so that they can have their ultimate fulfilment by having their own staff.(we did this of course because we didnt want them to quit)we filled their days with 12 or 13 hours of activity so they couldnt look for another job) sound familiar? oh by the way unless you were in management the job sucked.

those poor sales guys didnt have a chance. our philosophy or i should say the companys was hire in masses train in classe and fire their asses

21

jw meetings and obedience to the society

by boy@crossroads in

jw
friends

in what ways does each of the jw meetings play a part in instilling obedience to the mother organization?

or maybe put another way, how does each weekly jw meeting contribute to the overall jw mindset?.

this thought came to me whilst drifting in and out of the watchtower study this morning.. ministry school: helps jws strengthen their speaking skills for better defending their beliefs.

ko38

wow, this thread has really showed me how brainwashed i was and i guess still am to an extent.i keep feeling as though i need someone or something to lead me.im still very confused about salvation.i wish i had the answers