Posts by Forscher

60

What has happened to America? Stop Bush, Stop The Ignorance.

by Morocco in

jw
friends

i'm pissed today and i'm about to let it out.

i hope nobody gets offended because these are only opinions.

is anyone else outraged by our president?

Forscher

Bush gets away with literal genocide?

That is a myth promoted by those who hate him and want to smear him everyway they can. Our troops are not indescriminantly killing everybody they can, much less trying to eliminate a people from the face of the earth (the definition of genocide) like Sadaam Hussein tried to do with the Kurds, the Serbs tried to do the Bosnians, and the Arabs are trying to do to the Jews. Au Contraire, every effort is being made to use precision weapons to reduce innocent casualties to the fullest extent possible under the circumstances. The real attempts at genocide that is going on over there are being perpetrated by two religious groups who are determined to butcher one another until all of one group or the other are eliminated. They are the ones who are freely using weaponry to cause the maximum amount of damage to everyone, including innocents. And those folks are doing so in direct violation of the laws in their own holy book, the Koran, forbidding such conduct of hostilities.

Iraq wasn't connected to the war on terror.

Excuse me? I guess you don't consider $25,000 payments to the families of every suicide bomber who attacked our ally, Israel, a connection with the war on terror. I also guess you don't consider files unearthed out of Sadaam's intelligence agency's archives detainling offers of help to Al Qaeda evidence of connection to the war on terror either. But then, since those things weren't widely reported by a media hostile to the U.S. president, you might not even be aware of them.

American media DOSEN'T EVEN SHOW the murders, the hurt, the pain, the bloodshed of those poor people in Iraq. They don't show dead bodies of children that have been shredded by our bombs. It's intellectual dishonesty, they are turning a blind eye to the disgusting violence that is going on over there.

Ah, but what they do show are films of Al Qaeda snipers shooting our soldiers, Al Qaeda foot soldiers attacking U.S. soldiers, and the aftermath of indescriminate car bombs. What they do not show is the good that our soldiers are doing over there. They don't show the schools our soldiers have built, the sick ones our soldiers take care of, even at times taking money out of their own pockets and food out of their own families' mouths to send some of those children and others over here to the U.S. to get the finest of medical care in the world, nor do they show the order and peace which prevails in many areas outside of the Sunni triangle. Those things do not make good newscopy and contradict the image of what is going on over there that the American media want you and me to have.

If they had been showing what is really going on our troops would have been home already.

The fact is they have not shown us what is really going on over there in its entirety. What they are doing is taking their strategy out of the media playbook and showing a distorted version of the whole picture. The good that our actions have resulted in are not being shown. Victories on our part are being portraid as defeats (Anybody remember the Tet Offensive? American soldiers kicked the North Vietmanese Army's butts all the way back to the border. But, according to the media it was a monumental failure and defeat). They are not showing the entire picture because they want the very pull-out and impeachment you are calling for.

This can't be solved with guns or more troops, it HAS to be solved with diplomacy.

That is your personal opinion. I happen to disagree. However, I do agree that it can't be won if that action is continued along the lines which have already failed.

I'm just a patriotic as the next guy...

I am glad to read that. And I will even go so far as to say you have a right to your opinion and voicing it does not inherently make you unpatriotic or treasonous.

It's high time we impeach our president and charge him with the same crime Saddam was charged with.

And my opinon is that you have spent too much time on liberal blogs and come to the opinion they wanted you to, the wrong one. But then you have the right to that opinion, however ill-considered I think it may be, as I have the right to disagree.

Respectfully

Forscher

30

How did your family react to your decision over time?

by mavie in

jw
friends

i'm still somewhat hopeful my family will one day 'see the light'.

in your experience, did any of your family members finally understand your reason for leaving and communicate with you as a family member and not an apostate?.

.

Forscher

Let's see,

My stepson and his wife already declared that I am not family and treat me as if I am disfellowshipped. My inlaws never approved of their daughter's remarraige, despite her first husband's cronic abuse of her and his being the one to seek divorce and freedom to remmarry. My only sibling in the organization treats me pretty much as the Scientologists are ordered by their organization to treat apostates (steal from, lie to, defraud, etc.). And all of that was started while I was still a member in good standing with the bOrg!

So nothing's really changed. Why should it?

Forscher

4

current elders?

by ?me? in

jw
friends

are you guys just slacking when it comes to posting info, or is there no other boe letters coming down from the wts?

i think the last one was the june one on porn.

come on, we need letters, scans, elders meeting notes, kms notes, etc.

Forscher

If you are at the top, there is always a way to get around things

I know one elder and his family who came up with a way around Christmas. It turns out that the elder and his wife were married about that time. So, guess what? The family goes out and buys presents, just like other folks, and voila!, they just happen to exchange presents and celebrate their "wedding anniversary." I also know an elder who used the excuse of a visit of his Daughter's in-laws to throw a perfectly good new year's eve party, complete with the booze! Of course, they really weren't having a new year's party! Yeah, sure.

Forscher

31

What's up with Islam?

by Tyrone van leyen in

this is a religion i am not too familiar with.

so forgive me where i err.

it seems that this religion accepts jesus, but only as a minor prophet.

Forscher

I am secure enough in my belief that I care little whether Ellison swears his oath on the Bible or the Koran.

Since freedom of religion is so important that it is garaunteed in the first amendment to the Constitution, he is welcome to swear on whatever Book he considers holy. Just as long as he respects my religious freedom as well, we'll get along alright.

As for "what is wrong with Islam," one must consider what Bernard Lewis wrote in The Crisis of Islam; Holy War and Unholy Terror is probably the biggest reason for the difference between Christianity and Islam. Islam is a religion born of conquest and Christianity is not. Mohammad was a conqueror and Jesus an executed criminal. That effects our views of each other as well as our attitudes towards a whole host of issues.

Due to Jesus' execution and the early history of persecution of his followers, most of the rest of the world, much less Islam really can't respect Chrit's followers. Sure, they can fear them when they are powerful. But respect? Forget it!

Islam was born of the blood of conquest. Mohammad conquered most of the Arabian penninsula and executed most of his enemies before he died. He set up a theocracy, though not quite along the lines of the accepted scholarly definition of that word, which continued to spread by conquest throughout the early centuries of its existence. Therefore, the views of Muslims in regards to such matters as government, war, and the morality of both is very different from our own western views.

Their view of history is also quite different. Western culture is hated, not particularly for its modern history of colonialism in particular, rather it is hated for having been the first one to successfully stop the the march of Islam across the globe and its reconquest of lands which once brought under the control of Islam by whatever means is considered Islam's forever. The hatred runs very far back in history and very deep in a manner that we, in the west, just cannot fully grasp. As the inheritors of Brittain's legacy of world superpower, in the eyes of the Muslim world, we, here in the United States, are hated for every loss suffered and every slight imagined by the Muslim world since, and including, the defeat on the battlefield of Portiers in 732, when the Franks ended the years of unchallenged conquest and domination by the armies of Islam. As I said, our world views are so different from Muslims that we in the west just can't seem to grasp their attitudes.

Even that fairly complicated explanation of the problem is a bit simplistic. Those who might be interested might like to read the book I mentioned for a complete exposition on the subject.

Forscher

27

JWD outage -- what if it were longer or worse, permanent?

by Fatfreek in

jwd to me, and for some like me, is my morning coffee.

if its not up, like earlier today, it gets me to thinking, what if this were a permanent thing?

what if jwd were actually shut down like our friend quotes site in 2006?

Forscher

I've always used an anonymous e-mail account.

There are very few people here who know my name and exact location for good reasons. I have the phone numbers for one of those people and if necesarry could use it to get in contact with another one of those who could help me to contact others if I needed to.

I am sure that others have simliar networks of associates. So, folks would eventually be able to communicate should that happen.

Forscher

24

ITHINKISEE Update: JW hellhounds on my trail ...

by ithinkisee in

jw
friends

some back story:.

we moved 1500 miles away from our hometown.

we didn't tell anyone we were done with the jw thing until after we moved - and even then - only basic info.

Forscher

I understand how you got caught off guard on that one.

I guess the lesson for those in simliar situations is to ask right back, "Who are you, and why do you want to know?" That way you take control of the situation away right at the outset.

Recently, I got a call from a phone I didn't know, as I was waiting for a legitimate caller whose number I didn't know, I took the chance and answered the phone. It turned out to be the new CO for the circuit in the last congregation I attended. As it turned out, I was able to take control of the conversation subtly enough that I don't really think the fellow realised he'd lost control and politely denied the man what he wanted (a committment to go to the meeting the following day).

Now that the elder has confirmed your location I look for much the same thing as you do IthinkIsee. Yes, the arrogance of most elders where their "authority" is concerned and their willingness to use deception and lies to get what they want makes me wonder what I ever saw good in that organization. Just do the best you can.

Forscher

46

Persecution Wanes/Banning Blood Garners Publicity

by compound complex in

sheer madness --- perpetuated by two madmen who prevailed over the judge [almost].

"after the judge's death, as world war ii was ending and persecution against the witnesses began declining, along with the attendant drop in news-media publicity, hayden c. covington told the author [of the four presidents] that fred franz saw the prohibition against blood transfusions as a way to accomplish two things: to continue to publicize the religion, and to create an uproar in the community.

this reaction would convince the membership they were being "persecuted" and "suffering for righteousness sake," a sure sign they were "in the truth.".

Forscher

Why am I not surprised?

Forscher

13

What Do You Think About Jesus' Failed Prophecy?

by Morocco in

i suppose im addressing the believers/agnostics more than the atheists on this one, but please, everyone feel free to comment.

so, it is apparent from the scriptures that jesus and his followers believed that the end of the world was coming in their own lifetime.

i tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.

Forscher

I suppose I’m addressing the believers/agnostics more than the atheists on this one, but please, everyone feel free to comment.
So, it is apparent from the scriptures that Jesus and his followers believed that the end of the world was coming in their own lifetime.
I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. – (Matthew 24:34, Mark 13:30)
I suppose you could debate those scriptures like the Watchtower has – “this generation” is some future generation. But what about these :
Matthew 16:28 “I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”
Mark 9:1 “And he said to them, ‘I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God come with power.’”
Luke 9:27 “I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God.”,/p>
So “some standing here”, as in some listening to Jesus speaking, was in reference to people of that specific day (not day as in time, day as in 24 hour day). THOSE people, at THAT time. It was obvious that Jesus prophecy failed, unless he never made this prophecy which is a whole other can of worms and one which stinks just as bad. What does everything think about it?

Your first "failed prophecy" is interesting since it and the rest of the prophecy was so accurately fufilled by the events which led up to the Fall of Jerusalem in 70 ad that the fulfillment is the main reason that the synoptic Gospels are dated well after that even by "mainstream Scholars," who don't believe in prophecy in the first place. The trouble comes from the interpretation that Jesus was also foretelling a future event and the timeframes which such apocalyptical types impose on that intepretaion.

As for the rest of the "failed prophecies" you cite, those were fulfilled within the week, as recorded for us by Matthew in the very next chapter.

Forscher

15

JW Weddings. Avoid Paganism at all costs!

by MinisterAmos in

jw
friends

i just got back from a real puke-fest of a jw wedding.. i'll post some notes from the ceremony but let's just say that i had to restrain myself from getting up and saying "don't agree to that"!

.

it's now "pagan" to throw a damn boquet?

Forscher

I guess they need to start leaving out kissing the bride as well.

That one has some rather dubious origins including some association with an ancient pagan custom in which the senior chieftan of a the tribe or clan had the right to bed the bride before groom could (that custom is portrayed in Mel Gibson's Wallace and may well be the real origin of the custom of years gone by of most males giving the bride a little peck). Even into Christian times the bride and groom in some lands were expected to consumate their marraiges with witnesses, usually matrons from both families, present. I even remember a reading as historical romance novel one time which portraid the custom in the time of Richard the Lionheart with a scene where both the bride and groom had to disrobe completely in front of all the guests at their wedding feast and then parade through the assemblage completely nude to make their way to their bed. That is what Wagner potraid in his opera. That custom likely goes back to pagan times and is likely the origin of the bridal kiss.

As somebody pointed out, about the only way to avoid pagan associations altogether would be for the groom to pick his new bride up at her home and take her to the marraige feast at his home. And by the way, he would also want to present the sheet they made love on to her parents as that was also required by the law of Moses. He, he.

Forscher

91

What I Learned at the at the 2 Day Assembly...

by becca1 in

jw
friends

1- "jehovah does not want us to be rich".

other religions teach that god helps us to become prosperous.

jehovah does not do that.

Forscher

0% of our young ones who go to college remain witnesses. The DO said he was told this by fellow DO's at a DO meeting.

I know a couple of POs who are smirking at that one! I met one of them while he and I were both at a university. That guy was both getting an education and ruling his congregation as the PO at the same time!

I can also think of a bunch more of young dubs who would beg to differ with that statement. College had nothing to do with my own fade, though the elders in my last congo probably think it did. My problems with the bOrg were a result of things I learned early on in the bOrg making the hypocrisy of some of the stuff I heard coming from the platform brilliantly obvious.

Forscher