Forscher

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Posts by Forscher

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  9

  Apostasy in the early church? NO

  by greendawn in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  having checked the history of the early church to the time of constantine, i find the claim that the church apostasized after the death of the last apostle around 100 ad as being grossly mistaken.

  to cut a long story short it appears that those holding high ranks (ie the bishops) in the church did eventually become corrupted through lust for power and glory culminating in the unnatural union with the roman state but there never was a wilful corruption of doctrine and loss of divine grace as the jws claim in that period.

  things with the r&f carried on much as under the apostles with some churches being spiritually strong and some weak.

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  Forscher

  In Revelation 2:4-6 apostacy is mentioned. And one particular group, the Nicholaitans are named. So there was some measure of apostasyeven then.
  
  Forscher
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  21

  The person who brought you into the "lie"

  by pratt1 in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  .

  just wondering, is the person who studied with you still an active dub?.

  in a poll with a few of my friends, all who studied with either us or our parents are now not considered dubs.

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  Forscher

  That person died a few years ago. She was the last of my maternal Aunts and the only other Dub in my family before I married. You could probably say she was the only reason I didn't leave earlier.
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  51

  Why DOESN'T Ray Franz post here?

  by AlmostAtheist in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  silly question.

  he wrote the best known ex-jw book.

  the title is even known among faithful dubs.. it's hard to imagine that he's not interested in the topic.

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  Forscher

  Satanus, your comment is about the best one yet. I agree 100%
  
  Forscher
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  13

  Questions about god's name

  by Jankyn in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i have a couple of questions for the research-bunnies on the board--there are so many of you who've spent so much time studying both the bible and jw beliefs, and it's an incredible resource for the rest of us.

  i used to know the jw line on some of this stuff, but since i left in my late teens and am now moving into middle age, i've forgotten a lot.. first, i know that the nwt inserts "jehovah" every time the old testament uses the tetragrammaton (yhwh).

  my question is, what is the basis/claim they make for inserting "jehovah" into the new testament?

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  Forscher

  Okay folks. Never let it be said that I couldn't own up to being wrong!
  Yes, My information for the statement about Jerome did come from WTBTS material, so I could be wrong on that statement since I don't have primary material to confirm or rule it out. However, I do stick by my assertion that the name was probably there originally for the other reason I stated.
  I also stand by my statement that the WTBTS is wrong to insert it where they have no material evidence to support placement. While I agree with them that the writers of the NT were unlikely to follow any suposed Jewish tradition of leaving the name out. I say supposed because even you can't agrue with the fragments of the LXX in the Faud collection and elsewhere that show it was in the LXX until we encounter copies made by CHRISTIANS. However It is dishonest to place God's name on the basis of THEORY as to where it should've been.
  My apologies.
  
  Forscher
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  13

  Questions about god's name

  by Jankyn in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i have a couple of questions for the research-bunnies on the board--there are so many of you who've spent so much time studying both the bible and jw beliefs, and it's an incredible resource for the rest of us.

  i used to know the jw line on some of this stuff, but since i left in my late teens and am now moving into middle age, i've forgotten a lot.. first, i know that the nwt inserts "jehovah" every time the old testament uses the tetragrammaton (yhwh).

  my question is, what is the basis/claim they make for inserting "jehovah" into the new testament?

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  Forscher

  The insertion of the divine name in the New Testamnet is, in my opinion, going beyond the scripture. We do know that the dvine name did occur in the New Testament in early copies because the ancient translator Jerome mentions that it did. The use of the short form of it, Jah, occurs a number of times in Revelation as part of "alleluia," the greek transliteration of the Hebrew "halleluyah." However, for whatever reason, the exact locations of the divine name in the New Testament are lost to us now. The only way to put them in is through guessing at the locations. That is not the role of a translator and until manuscripts come to light that show us the locations is altering the scriptures in my opinion. I think it is arrogant to do that!
  
  As for inserting "Jehovah" into the Old testament. It is well attested to in the Hebrew texts of the Old Testament and should be used in the interest of accuracy. "Jehovah" was accepted as the angliscised form, or the translation, of "YHWH" in English for centuries. Therefore, it is entirely proper to use it when translating the Old Testament into English despite the modern objectors. If we accept their position that we must use "Yahweh" (which I question as to accuracy anyway), then we would be bound to call Jesus "Yehshua" and other such transliterations as well (wich is just exactly what some of those folks want to do anyway). So I see no problem with using "Jehovah" in translation wherever it appears in the texts we have .
  
  Forscher
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  22

  What's with my Mom and the NWT?

  by Ingenuous in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  before i left the org, i decided to start doing my personal bible reading in a translation other than the nwt.

  my mother seemed bothered by this, wanting to know why i didn't want to use the nwt, describing why she greatly preferred it to other translations, and generally adopting a worried look whenever i mentioned the topic.

  i talked to her this morning and she turned the conversation into a q&a session on a bible i was looking for in a local bookstore.

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  Forscher

  I had and consulted other translations and versions of the Bible while I was a JW. Where I got questioned was when I started studying Greek and Hebrew. What I heard more than once was that since we had the most accurate translation out there, how could I possibly want to study the languages? My reason? EVERYbody slants their translations to their point of view. So I want it from the horse's mouth. The only way to do that is to learn the languages and read it from the original as far as is possible. I got looks like I had three heads at that one!
  
  Forscher
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  6

  CoC Review - "Power Corrupts, Ultimate Power Corrupts Ultimately"

  by Nellie in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i just finished reading crisis of conscience.

  i don't know if it was a record or anything, but i just received it the other day and i'm finished!

  my criticisms - surely brother franz knows who spearheaded the attacks he so eloquently discusses in his book, both the witchhunt against him personally and those he witnessed during the years.

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  Forscher

  I wouldn't mind having details as well. But I imagine that Franz had to be careful about doing that since it is always possible that that he could've been sued by any person he fingered specifically. Since Governing Body members are probaply not considered "public" persons under the law, they could recover much more easily for slander. Since the WTBTS would've been footing the legal bills, Franz would've been dead in the water if that'd happened. So I can understand his reluctance to get specific in that matter.
  
  Forscher
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  42

  Is it me or has the WTS gotten worse?

  by Lady Lee in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i've been out of the jws for the last 20 years.

  i remember when...the wts prided its self on having khs that were humble, practical and were't a showy displaythe wts was as militant as they are now.the elders weren't as cruel to their ownthe wts wasn't always puttong their hands in the r&f's pocket and demanding money.the conventions actually cared about the needs of the r&f by providing food and not making a bunch of rules about where they could eat and what they could put under the seat.. am i remembering things differently?

  has the society gotten worse?

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  Forscher

  It has. That's part of Why I don't go any more.
  
  As somebody noted, there always has been some controlling etc., but things are more rigid and paranoid than they were when I started going in the early 70s.
  
  Forscher
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  11

  Just found - 1918 edition - "The Revelation"

  by Uzzah in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i was going through a box of stuff from my bethel daze and found tucked away amongst some personal papers a mint condition 1918 edition of a wtbs publication "the revelation.

  remember the commentary on james book?

  this does the same thing but with revelations and includes explanations as to the signs and symbols according to the belief at the time.

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  Forscher

  You might be interested in knowing that the missing section probably makes it one of the copies which were censored by the Government. The government insisted that certain sections and pages be removed for being "seditious", then put the authors and Rutherford on trial anyway.
  
  Forscher
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  11

  Personal vendetta against you

  by pratt1 in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

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  were there any elders, co's or any one else in a postion of importance that had a personal issue with you that clouded their judgement?.

  how did you handle it?

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  Forscher

  Do bears go in the woods?
  Several elders have done that with me. The most memorable of the bunch was one who came to our congregation after being deleted as an elder from another congo because he tried to hide the immoral conduct of one of his kids. Because he was a personal friend of a GB member, he did a token year as a publisher then was appointed as an MS. Then, in another year, he was appointed as an elder. About another year later, he got the goods on the secretary fo the congregation, whose kid was doing the same things his kid had done, and engineered the deletion of the secretary from his position and his own appointment to the post. When he did that, he basically became the king of that congregation.
  After that, anybody he didn't like was in deep do do! I found myself relived of whatever priviledges I had without the benefit of a hearing or warning. I just walked in one day and was imformed by the various ministerial servants that I worked under that I no longer enjoyed any priviledges of service. My family and I ceased to be invited to congregational get togethers etc.... I think you know the drill. When my daughter was raped, that elder personally chaired the JC and Df'ed her, despite the fact that she wasn't even an unbaptised publisher at the time (it seems that when one has friends in high places, they are not bound by the rules). My whole family was treated as if we'd all been Df'd at that elder's insistance.
  And that was only part of the story! He tried to keep our daughter from being reinstated, but I found a way to get around that and get the reinstatement. So he did his best to tighten the screws every way he could. I really had to watch everything I said or did so that he couldn't find some legitimate way to DF me. Let's just say that the only reason I didn't walk away from the organization at that time was that I could see that was what he wanted and I decided that I'd be damned if I was going to let that bastard get what he wanted. When I moved away to another town years later, the asshole had the gall to brag that he'd run me out of town!
  To my knowledge, my family and I were the only ones he ever went after who didn't buckle under, get DF'd, or run. When we did leave that town and congregation, it was on our own terms, not his. I am still proud of that!
  
  Forscher