So, why couldn't they, in turn, apply that to Christendom? If this were the case (that no matter WHAT they teach, HOW they act, HOW many prophecies fail) wouldn't the Catholic Church still be "it"? Yes, the same Catholic church they love to hate.
I'm no proponent of the Catholic Church just something that always plagued me as a witness, was how they railed against other religions, but never pulled the rafter out of their own eye.
Peace,
Bridgette
Bridgette
JoinedPosts by Bridgette
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10
First century disciples vs the Society
by Leander ini'm having a discussion with my wife about the society's changes in doctrines and failed predictions.
she basically is using the argument that the society is fallible just like the the first century disciples.
so this neatly excuses the society for any erroneous teachings or failed prophecies.. how would you counter-argue that type of reasoning?
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Bridgette
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We're Better than Jehovah's Witnesses
by joelbear inthis certainly becomes clear very quickly when you see what love those here in our community have for each other.
its unconditional love too.. why, no one ever minds if you disagree with them or their personal experiences.
too, even if a disagreement arises it is handled in a loving manner with each individual showing respect for his brothers and sisters.. truly the on line community of jehovahs-witness.com shines as a light to the world as a beacon of hope, that, if our example was followed, peace, love and happiness would reign over a wonderful renewed planet, inhabited by people who have found a real peace of mind and ability to share their space with all.. truly, all jehovah's witnesses should want to join us in our wonderful land of freedom, where nothing can ever go rong.
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Bridgette
Dear Joelbear,
I have to echo Seeker's thoughts. We don't claim to be god's only spokesperson on earth and the only channel by which people can get to god--which is the reason that the WTBTS gets called on their behavior, teachings, and actions of their adherants. We're just a little online community--our only bond being, that in some way JW's have touched our lives. Usually that has been in a negative way (we can't help it, and it's VERY therapeutic to write it out). But experiences within the org are not always negative, as yours and others' posts indicate. BUT....we can talk about it now. Whatever "it" is for each individual. We're safe. That is just one of the differences here. One of the others is that you can express emotion and opinions freely. You might get called on it. You might even get "yelled at" cyberly of course, but you're FREE. You can lash back. You can get angry. You can forgive. You can go offline for a while. You can ignore certain posters. All without being called before a judicial committee, risk of losing your family and friends, etc.
In the big scheme of things (and I believe I speak for most of us here), this is just a tiny component of our lives. When I get yelled at here, ignored, or whatever it really does not affect the rest of my "real life". I find it amusing to communicate openly with people
who've experienced this strange existence called "being a Jehovah's Witness"--for better or worse. That's how I take it. It's no big deal.
I am free. We are free.
Love,
Bridgette -
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Worldy friends vs. JW friends........
by LDH injust thinking out loud here.... when i was 19 and df'd for being pregnant (yes they knew i was repentant but told me i was to be used as an example), i ended up with no friends.. when i was 20, some four months later, and i was reinstated before my daughter was born, i thought for sure everything would be fine.
after all, hadn't i been reinstated?
wasn't i a valued member of the congregation?.
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Bridgette
It's the simple difference between unconditional love and acceptance and extremely conditional love and acceptance.
Joelbear, I'm glad your experiences were so wonderful. You always lend a balanced view which is often needed. I still assert that the love or at least the acceptance you received was conditional in your cong. but maybe I'm just jaded. The important thing is you're happy now, and at peace with your past. I'm happy for you.
Anyway, my experiences are much the same, Lisa. BTW, when are you due? I'm due in Feb. and this is my second child and husband. I'm having 3 different showers from different circles of friends in mine and my husband's lives. I had the misfortune of sharing my pregnancy the FIRST time around in the ORG with a sister of the "in crowd". But I did get a few table scraps that fell. And 2 of my friends (who wouldn't even speak to me now) did manage to put together a little something for me. That was nice. But I feel so much more comfortable and loved by my new real friends.
Love,
Bridgette -
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POLL: Occupations
by Angst inas a witness what occupation did/do you hold?.
i was speaking with a friend of mine that is a former witness and we remarked about how many of us have worked in some sort of janitorial work.
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Bridgette
First, I am a mother :)
And an administrative assistant to the manager of the Respiratory Therapy Department in a hospital (okay, so I'm a medical secretary) but it pays great, I've come a LOOOONG way from the poverty stricken days of the org (I married well the 2nd go round--love, great looks, and money--what can I say, I was only looking for the love part, and I got 'em all!) I am currently pursuing my bachelor's in Nursing. I plan to make nursing my career, and also use it in volunteer efforts as well.
Love,
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When Ambiguity Signals Betrayal
by metatron infor quite a while now, the watchtower has been reacting to.
severe controversies with ambiguous replies.. this is a dramatic change from the decades when they plainly.
expressed their views on neutrality, the u.n., and blood.. it was felt that to do otherwise violated the sacred responsibility.
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Bridgette
Yep, they're mainstreaming. It's that or die out. Hey, if they truly do become useful like some modern christian churches, give to the poor, help better society, and loosen their chokehold on people's consciences and spirits, and let families reunite like a good little religious corporation, I'm all for it. This does, of course, put them in the sticky situation of being the exact whore-like creation that they always judged Christendom to be, but they will flavor this with new light, as they attempt to placate and retain the old hardliners while trying to attract the new ones they need to feed on to survive.
All they are, or have ever been is just another religion/corporation. They are totally dependant on public opinion (because they have to bring in fresh blood, as they do not have good retention of their children) and their rank & file. They know what it takes to survive. Good P.R. and selling a useful product. You'll see this org evolve into something totally unrecognizable from what we always knew (something radical like a loving, kind, spiritually refreshing organization) or they will cease to exist beyond the realms of russelite-esque status.
Interesting indeed.
Bridgette -
26
My Story
by rmayer32 inbeing new here and reading some of the stories here i thought i would add mine.
not being as dramatic as some of them out there still thought i would share:).
i was born a jw as my mom was raised one from the time she was a toddler.
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Bridgette
M.M.M.,
We all know that the feeble attempt to turn this "policy" around for p.c. purposes is a FAR cry from what is actually practiced and what has been practiced for YEARS to the detriment of innocent lives (I'm not just talking about child molestation, either. My father was an elder---so, PUUULEEEEEEEEZE!!!!!!!!!). Oh, and just bear in mind that those dirty little BOE letters regarding what to do in cases of molestation and child abuse are plastered all over the internet (no wonder the Corporation HATES THE INTERNET SO!!!). I've shown them to some school officials who saw them for what they were, and will be watching out for the children of Jehovah's Witnesses who have NO VOICE of their own. Nothing to worry about as long you simply watch out for your children. STOP HURTING THEM, or allowing them to be hurt spiritually, mentally, sexually, physically etc. Most of those you see here, crawl up out of the ranks of "good JW's". I certainly hope that in addition to "moving on" so beautifully with yours and your daughter's life, you REPORTED IT TO THE AUTHORITIES AND SOUGHT COMPETENT, PROFESSIONAL COUNSELING (and remember that the elders are "untrained volunteers" by the society's own admission) If you weigh this religious corporation you worship by their own judgements of Christendom, they have amassed blood guilt up to the skies--every bit as much as Christendom. How can you possibly imagine that any god they puportedly worship condones what they have done.
You leave now? After so short a time with us? I am sorry the truth about your "truth" hurt you in such short order. You may return one day, when you are open. But you've learned, you cannot come on here and just spout cut n paste WT rhetoric, with even a smattering of fear mongering without getting called on it--post haste--especially when you are attempting to frighten someone who has stumbled in here broken and bruised from that sick, abusive cult, simply to tell their story. May you go in peace. But you feel welcome to come on back if you ever want to try again.
Peace,
Bridgette -
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My Story
by rmayer32 inbeing new here and reading some of the stories here i thought i would add mine.
not being as dramatic as some of them out there still thought i would share:).
i was born a jw as my mom was raised one from the time she was a toddler.
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Bridgette
My mailmum,
Of all the things you said you would do to "help" your child--you forgot--REPORT IT TO THE AUTHORITIES. So that they can conduct a thorough investigation. It's the law. Jehovah's Witnesses have been "encouraged" to sweep such goings on under the rug--my father was an elder, so don't even go there!!!! Aah,yes, new light says the parents CAN go to the authorities. NO. WRONG. It's the law, the parents AND the elders as those given a public trust can be held accountable if they DO NOT TURN IT OVER TO THE AUTHORITIES FOR FULL INVESTIGATION. Period. Got it? No questions. You always report it to the authorities. Practice whatever nonsense religion you want to. But you will not be alowed to harm your children. The world is watching. We who have been "in" know ALL THE DIRTY LITTLE SECRETS--HOW DO YOU KNOW YOUR GOD IS NOT USING US? No excuses. Watch out for your children, protect them, or the world will. We're sick of it.
When you hold yourself up AS GOD'S ONLY SPOKESPERSON ON EARTH--THE ONLY PLACE THEY CAN TURN TO FOR GOD, YOU'D BETTER BE RIGHT--ALL THE TIME. And the WTBTS aren't right half the time. They are an archaic religious corporate institution that gasps for its last breath.
They go the way of the dinosaur.
Peace,
Bridgette -
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Exercise--Is It For Christians?
by comment inexcerpted from a future issue of the watchtower:.
in modern times, great emphasis has been laid upon diet and exercise, particularly in western lands.
people are often impressed by the physiques of athletes and movie stars presented in the media.
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Bridgette
what does bttt mean? I've always wondered.
enlighten me, pleeeeeeaaaaase.
Bridgette of the semi-nonweekend crowd.
oh and the article was cute. too close to the real rhetoric. -
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Nov. 8 Awake - Wife Beaters-Sick
by MrMoe ini will let you all hang who ever the heck wrote this crap.
november 8, 2001 awake page 9: some battered women may need to seek assistance from the authorities.
at times, a point of crisis-such as intervention of the police-can cause an abusive man to see the seriousness of the action.. page 12: should the battered wife leave her husband?
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Bridgette
Dear MSIL,
Thank you for attempting to lend some balance to this volatile issue. It's true, it's so emotional for many of us, that it's difficult to be balanced. I tried to read it objectively. I think what you were saying, is MOST religion plays some part in the subjugatioin of women, simply by virtue of what the bible teaches regarding women. And I have to agree. However, MSIL, I have to point out that even most Christian religions are WAY ahead of the WTBTS on women's and children's issues. I have some christian friends, and even those of the more conservative sects (i.e., Church of Christ) have women's study groups. Women can lead the church in singing, they can sit in on decision making commitees, they KNOW they can leave an abusive relationship with the FULL support of the congregation etc. Not that that's enough, but it's light years ahead of Jehovah's Witnesses. You should know that just sitting back, and paying lip service to a woman's "rights" (we all know they view women and children as second class citizens) via their Awake mag, is a FAR CRY from what they espouse by their actions.
Of course it is a woman's choice whether or not to leave an abusive relationship. In fact, until YOU DECIDE, you will not leave successfully. BUT, now here's the glitch--that little catch phrase they repeat ad nauseum regarding a woman's right to choose whether or not to leave---"if you're life is in danger" they continually spout it(and BTW, I do not know if this is new light, or what, but in the old days, it was stay to the death). Now, this is where a woman like myself gets caught in an abusive relationship with her children in tow. While it is your personal decision, when you do NOT have a support network, it is almost impossible to fathom the possibility of leaving. You've watched how women, esp. single moms are treated like burdensome pariahs in the congregations. You don't want your children growing up with that kind of a stigma. And at first, it very seldom starts out as life threatening. It's a slap, a push, a mark, not a bruise. My decision to leave and break up my family was AGONIZING. If I'd had the support of a loving religion who recognized me as a human being and not a potential burden, or second class citizen, I might have been able to leave far sooner, and spared my daughter from abuse. And don't beleive for one minute that the elders are supportive of a woman in this situation. I tried going to them in different congregations, always the same lukewarm response. More like, "*groan* I wish you hadn't told me this. Is your life in mortal danger etc." And for the abuse of my daughter--dismissed--As if it were no more than a harsh spanking. Mentally what this rhetoric does to you is make you question your own sanity, your own convictions. You know that backhanding a child is wrong. You know that having to put on extra makeup to cover a bruise is wrong. But there's no one saying, yes, it's wrong! In fact, you've got pretty much the opposite. And you are in such a weakened state, mentally and emotionally and physically, that you NEED someone to say--it is wrong. You need to leave! We will be there to support you if you do. When I finally left, after like I said, AGONIZING over it, I was through with the man, the cult and the god who'd allowed all of it.
So, if there does happen to be a god, and they have ruined mine and so many others faith in him? and he really is going to destroy us all? Oceans of blood are blood are on their heads. But that's the chance you take when you claim to be god's only spokesperson on earth. the only place and organization where people can go to for god--you'd better be right--ALL THE TIME. NO EXCUSES. At least, that's what they taught me about Christendom.Pax,
Bridgette -
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Will YOU be the next dead American?
by Nathan Natas ini respectfully request that you take a few moments to read the following article, and i would appreciate hearing your responses.. - - - -.
future widows of america: write your congressman.
by ann coulter.
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Bridgette
Seeker, you expressed: "as if my ideas mattered one iota to the people making the actual decisions"
It DOES! We have only to remember that our vote and voice DOES count! Start writing letters to your congressman, corporations that you disagree with, etc, you'll see. We've just forgotten or gotten lulled into an apathy, wherein we don't remember that we live in a democracy (I know-for all you Libertarians, it's a republic, but...we still have power). We live in a country that at least pays lip service to listening to its populace, and usually they do--really, just too many of us sit back and feel helpless. Like we did in the borg, feeling like we didn't count--when in actuality, religion AND government are totally dependant upon it's populace. Religion a little moreso, because they can't kill people. But go look up experiences in Amnesty International--you'll see even the harshest regimes respond to simple everyday letter writing. Our opinions do count. So, I kind of got off the subject, but...you get my drift.
So, so far, I have
1) Get to know my neighbors--I like that
2) Find out who my gov't is sponsoring and giving aid to--on board with that one already, I encourage all taxpayers to do likewise.
3) Enforce existing laws to the FULLEST extent--yep, sounds good. I intend to write Mr. Nighthorse Campbell Monday to see what is being done.
4) Acquiescing to thorough searches at airport--sigh, how can we not?
So far so good. I'd still like to brainstorm more. I don't want to just sit around and be critical of radical legislation that pops up, I want to be part of the solution.
I think there will be war. There already is. I think innocent people are going to die. They already have. I am sad. About all of them. I think one day we will transcend all of this. But I think for now, it's fight or flight. And there ain't no place to "fly" so it's fight. When the dust settles, we will rebuild. Americans are not a bad lot. If you can get past all the rednecks We helped rebuild Japan. We will help rebuild in the middle east. We will take our ideals over there, which will cause far more damage to their insane fundamentalist, archaic attitudes (esp towards women!) than our bombs will have done. We, as the human race are on the cusp of a giant leap in evolution (social) and there is always tremendous upheaval when that happens: the old dinosaurs--afraid of change and enlightenment and loss of what they perceive as power, and the NEW, fresh, craving free thought and change. Just think of when Neanderthal met up on hunting grounds with Cromagdon. Must have been a sight to behold.Bridgette
"do what ye will, so long as it harm none."