I found it! Took me a while!
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1968 10/15
Questions from Readers
• In what way did the Israelites in the wilderness “drink from the spiritual rock-mass that followed them,” as stated at 1 Corinthians 10:4?—I. M., U.S.A.
The apostle Paul commented about the provisions God made for the Israelites after they left Egypt, saying: “All ate the same spiritual food and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they used to drink from the spiritual rock-mass that followed them, and that rock-mass meant the Christ.”—1 Cor. 10:3, 4.
It seems that the apostle had two meanings in mind here, the first literal and the second spiritual.
In view of his preceding comments about passing through the Red Sea, it is apparent that Paul was alluding to the literal food and drink that God provided miraculously for the Israelites in the wilderness. Jehovah supplied manna on a regular basis for them. Since this literal food was produced miraculously or through Jehovah’s spirit, it might be termed “spiritual food.”
Similarly, God through his spirit provided drink for them. Shortly after leaving Egypt the people lacked water. At God’s direction Moses took his rod and struck a rock, producing water for the some two million Israelites as well as for their animals. (Ex. 17:5-7) Near the end of their forty-year trek Moses again struck a rock and water gushed forth for that huge congregation.—Num. 20:1-11.
How did they drink in a literal way from a “rock-mass that followed them”? While the rock Moses initially struck did not roll along after them for all those years, the fact is that they had divinely provided water from a rock-mass on at least two occasions, one near the beginning and one near the end of the forty years. So the literal water might be said to have followed them in that sense. Or, when the water was provided in such enormous amounts, it might have been somewhat of a river that “followed” them or went along with them, kept up with them, in that they could drink from it for a while as they journeyed.
But how is this suggestive of a way that those Israelites back there partook of spiritual provisions that followed or went along with them? The Israelites were expecting the “seed” promised to Abraham, Shiloh who was to come. (Gen. 22:18; 49:10) The sacrifices and ceremonies connected with their sins and their need for forgiveness pointed to the Messiah, the antitypical “rock-mass.” As Paul wrote in other places: “The Law has a shadow of the good things to come,” and, “The Law has become our tutor leading to Christ, that we might be declared righteous due to faith.” (Heb. 10:1; Gal. 3:24) So, along with providing literal food and drink for the Israelites, God provided spiritual sustenance which followed them or went along with them through the wilderness. The spiritual things relating to the Messiah could sustain their hope and spiritual life.
When Jesus did come as the Messiah, there flowed out from him spiritual waters of life and provisions far more valuable than those literal things given the Hebrews. Jesus said: “If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me and drink. He that puts faith in me, just as the Scripture has said, ‘Out from his inmost part streams of living water will flow.’” (John 7:37, 38) Many Israelites who drank from the rock-mass in the wilderness did not even enter into life in the Promised Land. But to the later Jews who did not stumble over Jesus as the “rock-mass of offense,” Christ gave spiritual waters that became “a fountain of water bubbling up to impart everlasting life.”—Rom. 9:32, 33; John 4:14, 15.
inquirer
JoinedPosts by inquirer
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29
Watchtower Blotch of Alpha and Omega interpretation
by Ticker innow to cover a point of a different nature but one i feel very important, a point in which the society has deliberatly tried to gloss over in their manipulating of scripture.
we see in rev.
1:7,8 a mention of the alpha and omega, the one who is, who was, and who is to come.
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inquirer
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29
Watchtower Blotch of Alpha and Omega interpretation
by Ticker innow to cover a point of a different nature but one i feel very important, a point in which the society has deliberatly tried to gloss over in their manipulating of scripture.
we see in rev.
1:7,8 a mention of the alpha and omega, the one who is, who was, and who is to come.
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inquirer
This is what the Reasoning From the Scriptures says about it:
Texts in which a title that belongs to Jehovah is applied to Jesus Christ or is claimed to apply to Jesus
Alpha and Omega: To whom does this title properly belong? (1) At Revelation 1:8, its owner is said to be God, the Almighty. In verse 11 according to KJ, that title is applied to one whose description thereafter shows him to be Jesus Christ. But scholars recognize the reference to Alpha and Omega in verse 11 to be spurious, and so it does not appear in RS, NE, JB, NAB, Dy. (2) Many translations of Revelation into Hebrew recognize that the one described in verse 8 is Jehovah, and so they restore the personal name of God there. See NW, 1984 Reference edition. (3) Revelation 21:6, 7 indicates that Christians who are spiritual conquerors are to be ‘sons’ of the one known as the Alpha and the Omega. That is never said of the relationship of spirit-anointed Christians to Jesus Christ. Jesus spoke of them as his ‘brothers.’ (Heb. 2:11; Matt. 12:50; 25:40) But those ‘brothers’ of Jesus are referred to as “sons of God.” (Gal. 3:26; 4:6) (4) At Revelation 22:12, TEV inserts the name Jesus, so the reference to Alpha and Omega in verse 13 is made to appear to apply to him. But the name Jesus does not appear there in Greek, and other translations do not include it. (5) At Revelation 22:13, the Alpha and Omega is also said to be “the first and the last,” which expression is applied to Jesus at Revelation 1:17, 18. Similarly, the expression “apostle” is applied both to Jesus Christ and to certain ones of his followers. But that does not prove that they are the same person or are of equal rank, does it? (Heb. 3:1) So the evidence points to the conclusion that the title “Alpha and Omega” applies to Almighty God, the Father, not to the Son.
Insight on the Scriptures
ALPHA AND OMEGA
These are the names of the first and last letters of the Greek alphabet and are used as a title three times in the book of Revelation. The additional occurrence of this phrase in the King James rendering of Revelation 1:11, however, does not receive support from some of the oldest Greek manuscripts, including the Alexandrine, Sinaitic, and Codex Ephraemi rescriptus. It is, therefore, omitted in many modern translations.
While many commentators apply this title both to God and to Christ, a more careful examination of its use restricts its application to Jehovah God. The first verse of Revelation shows that the revelation was given originally by God and through Jesus Christ, hence the one speaking (through an angelic representative) at times is God himself, and at other times it is Christ Jesus. (Re 22:8) Thus Revelation 1:8 (RS) says: “‘I am the Alpha and the Omega,’ says the Lord God [“Jehovah God,” NW], who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.” Although the preceding verse speaks of Christ Jesus, it is clear that in verse 8 the application of the title is to “the Almighty” God. In this regard Barnes’ Notes on the New Testament (1974) observes: “It cannot be absolutely certain that the writer meant to refer to the Lord Jesus specifically here . . . There is no real incongruity in supposing, also, that the writer here meant to refer to God as such.”
The title occurs again at Revelation 21:6, and the following verse identifies the speaker by saying: “Anyone conquering will inherit these things, and I shall be his God and he will be my son.” Inasmuch as Jesus referred to those who are joint heirs with him in his Kingdom as “brothers,” not “sons,” the speaker must be Jesus’ heavenly Father, Jehovah God.—Mt 25:40; compare Heb 2:10-12.
The final occurrence of the title is at Revelation 22:13, which states: “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.” It is evident that a number of persons are represented as speaking in this chapter of Revelation; verses 8 and 9 show that the angel spoke to John, verse 16 obviously applies to Jesus, the first part of verse 17 is credited to “the spirit and the bride,” and the one speaking in the latter part of verse 20 is manifestly John himself. “The Alpha and the Omega” of verses 12-15, therefore, may properly be identified as the same one who bears the title in the other two occurrences: Jehovah God. The expression, “Look! I am coming quickly,” in verse 12, does not require that these aforementioned verses apply to Jesus, inasmuch as God also speaks of himself as “coming” to execute judgment. (Compare Isa 26:21.) Malachi 3:1-6 speaks of a joint coming for judgment on the part of Jehovah and his “messenger of the covenant.”
The title “the Alpha and the Omega” carries the same thought as “the first and the last” and “the beginning and the end” when these terms are used with reference to Jehovah. Before him there was no Almighty God, and there will be none after him. He will bring to a successful conclusion the issue over Godship, forever vindicated as the one and only Almighty God.—Compare Isa 44:6.
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me and the deemunz
by katiekitten ini was lucky to have been brought up in the troof, because if i hadnt, i wouldnt have known about the demons and how they are always looking for opportunities to lead us astray by appearing as ghosties, or by making household objects float, or by getting into our house through items bought from car boot sales.. my first memories of the deemunz was quite early, say aged 5 or 6. i used to think they were at the end of the bed, and so i had to sleep with my legs curled up as tightly as possible, so they wouldnt get my toes.
i cant even begin to think what terrible things they were going to do with my piggies, but sure as the apostles i wasnt going to give them a chance.. aged 7 or 8 i knew the deemunz were after me, because i was special.
i was a jehobas witness.
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inquirer
@katiekitten
Black Sabbath! Led Zepplin!
ROCKON BABY!
What other bands were good in the 1970's....
Queen, Motorhead... Iron Maiden (came out in 1979...) Elton John... (He really rocked in that decade. His voice was in top form back then), Abba (My opinion of Sweden has always remained the same after that chick with the sexy bottom was in the group!)
Yeah. I love the 1970's... :( Too bad I came in the era after that. :( Sucks. :( -
5
New search engine - Yahoo
by Satanus in.
yahoo has thrown it's hat into the search engine corral.
try it @ http://myweb.search.yahoo.com/.
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inquirer
I think they are trying to google google.
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11
360 things you MUST BELIEVE in to be a Jehovah's Witness...
by inquirer inif you don't believe in the 360 points mentioned in the "bible topics for discussion," {at the back of the nwt} you aren't a jw?
[if there is just one point, just one little, etty bitty point... goodness me you can't be a jw!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
] yeah, i don't think it's on the watchtower program... just in the printed nwt only.
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inquirer
If you don't believe in the 360 points mentioned in the "Bible topics for discussion," {at the back of the NWT} you aren't a JW? [If there is just one point, just one little, etty bitty point... goodness me you can't be a JW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!] Yeah, I don't think it's on the Watchtower program... just in the printed NWT only.
I counted them pretty quickly, so I am not sure if my number is 100% spot on... but round about 360 (44 topics exactly). [I am not good with numbers and things, especially when they are in fine print.] Could someone double check with me at the back of the NWT 360 little points you must believe in to be a JW? I'd really appreciate that thanks!
They certainly do have a BIG LOAD to carry on their shoulders with their endless rules of belief! Jesus only gave us 2: Love Jehovah your God and love your neighbor!
Wow! Would you rather have 2 commandments to obey? Or 360! Better do a 180 degree u-turn and get out of there! -
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Why would someone who has disassociated allow their child to be taken to KH
by Agnes ini just read the listeners post about baptisms at the district conventions and didn't want to disrupt the thread.
i'm curious, why would someone allow their child to attend the kh or district convention and possibly be pressured into getting baptized?
agnes
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inquirer
errrr... Goodness me! :(
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Philosophy - is it worth the bother?
by Abaddon ini fully admit to only having dabbled in the waters of philosophy up to now.
i kept on being put off by the smell... .
having said that, is there anyone more clued up than me about the subject who can tell me anything that might make me change my mind?.
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inquirer
"My philosophy is ENJOY."
(The Simpsons.) -
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Converting
by xjustxanotherxstarx inhey, my friends is a jehovah's witness, and his parents are strict about who he can and cannot see, we are very close, and i wish we could see more of each other!
i know we would be allowed to if i was his religion!
how could i convert and what would i have to do, and how long would it take?
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inquirer
I'd rather marry a Catholic than a JW.
I don't like Catholic doctrine, but they are just normal people in the community. They are friendly... and you know just normal.
Where I live is a very Catholic area! Never seen so many churches in my life! :O ...But there are other churches too, but definetly not as many as the Catholic churches! :O (Australia is slightly more Anglican than Catholic by the way... almost 50-50)
And when I re-converted to the JW's, I found out there were a few JW's as well! :O I wish I didn't flaming know there were!!!!
I know which people I'd hang around with... Now there are all these people who shun me and crap like that. Because of their "religion" they can't ask me why I don't go to meetings anymore and stuff like that.
It's not me with the doctrines that bothers me (except 607) but it's the the cult-like attitude it's members are told to have! :( It's half cult, half Christian to me.... I think I would rather put up with half Christian, half Pagan like a lot of churches are like today... I think this is cult-like attitude is the bit that makes people hate Witnesses. I think they use a lot of psychology in their publications too. That "make you feel guilty all the time" talk. :(
So, it's hardly worth having a relationship with anyone in the org. :(
Like what other people have said "you'll be shunned forever." -
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My wife is trying to figure out chronology from Daniel book RIGHT NOW!
by ithinkisee ini work from home mostly, and my wife is right now in the other room with a piece of paper with a line across it for a timeline with "0" in the middle.
she says she is determined to have a clear idea of the chronology this time around through the daniel book at the congregation book study.. this is great!
it dovetails in perfectly with the fact that she just brought me home some books i got from the library on ancient jerusalem history.
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inquirer
Good on you! Ithinkisee!
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How many of you want to be resurrected? (I am not judging here! Just a Q!)
by inquirer inthis is in no way meant to judge people, but sometimes i think about this issue a lot.
i think about famoust people and think "hmmm, will tom cruise be there in paradise?
arnold schartzenegger?
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inquirer
I donn't know... maybe Tom Cruise would change at the last minute! You never know!
A bit like that guy on the torture stake next to Jesus. ...Jesus said to that person "truly I am telling you today, you'll be with me in Paradise..." I forget the verse and book and all, but it's so well-known as what Jeshua said...