my jw friend there was a major change in the mid-90s about the 1914 generation teaching.
he denied the strapline on awake magazine suddenly changed.. how can i fing out precisely when the change occurred, and even better, get my hands on awake magazines before and after?.
by the way, when and what was the sheep & goats changed teaching?
My JW friend there was a major change in the mid-90s about the 1914 generation teaching. He denied the strapline on Awake magazine suddenly changed.
How can I fing out precisely when the change occurred, and even better, get my hands on Awake magazines before and after?
By the way, when and what was the sheep & goats changed teaching?
i rang by best mate last night to see if his new job going okay - i had agreed to provide a reference & he got the job.
he said the job was good.
i told him i'd been to my cousin's funeral, which was pretty sad - he was only 46. my jw friend asked me whether i believed the bible to be the word of god to which i replied yes.
Thanks for all your thoughts.
Misspeaches - I have invested a year trying to point him towards the truth an=bout the truth, he's the only reason I joined this board or know anything about JWs.
We used to argue about the JW religion, but this outburst came after I have backed off for months.
He has suffered from depression and drink problems since before his baptism..
I rang him last night and he told me he had just sold a lifelong treasured posession, as suggested by the elders...perhaps this really broke him up....this thing has always meant a lot to him.
what really is hell?.
the watchtower describe it as nothing but the common grave.
in some places in the bible it is decribed as fiery.
JEHU
A very WARM WELCOME and I enjoyed reading your wise words.
The best thoughts I have read on this (and other) topics are contained in a used book I bought on Amazon: What the Bible Really Teaches, by Keith Ward. I recommend it most highly.
this is the last time i will post or read about the "trinity" doctrine because in my mind jehovah and jesus has enlightened me to see the real source of the so-called holy trinity.
satan is the originator of this unbiblical doctrine.
after i left jw's i felt i had to accept the trinity doctrine in order to be "saved".
Hello Booker,
I am a Christian, and like you I do not believe the trinity doctrine. But I just don't buy all that stuff about Satan being behind it. For goodness sake, since the first century there was much debate about the nature of God, and frankly the Bible does not clearly support or deny that one of several attempts to explain the nature of God and the relationship between the Father, Son and Holy Spirit that Jesus commanded us to baptize in the name of.
I am not a trinitarian, but I don't think Satan inserted that Scripture to mislead people about the nature of God. Why can't we just accept that we all sincerely hold different views.
Some of your argumant may be influenced by the publication "should you believe in the trinity". Have you checked the many sources quoted (and misquoted) in that booklet. They run into dozens. If the case is as clear cut as you suggest, then why the need for such intellectual dishonesty, which only 0.01% of readers actually check out the quotations etc.
i want you to know that you have destroyed a family because of your lies about jehovah and his organization.
a family member went apostate and has turned his back on jehovah.
he told us he is never coming back and i know he went and visited internet sites.
Dear leftbehind,
I don't understand how you can call everyone on this site apostates, when you do not know us. That is name-calling. I am a Christian who has never been a JW. However some people I love have been destroyed and their families torn apart by some cruel people in the name of Jehovah. Not as a result of truth but because of untruths. According to the Bible, Jehovah has never had or needed a human organisation - how can you not see that?Have you followed Christ's command to keep testing the faith you are in?
Out of respect for you I will only ask you to read the following texts from Awake magazine and the Bible:
Awake Magazine 2000 June 22 p. 6 The Manipulation of Information
Name-Calling
Some people insult those who disagree with them by questioning character or motives instead of focusing on the facts. Name-calling slaps a negative, easy-to-remember label onto a person, a group, or an idea. The name-caller hopes that the label will stick. If people reject the person or the idea on the basis of the negative label instead of weighing the evidence for themselves, the name-caller’s strategy has worked.
[examples of name-calling such as ‘opposers’, ‘apostate’ ‘haughty’ slap “a negative, easy-to-remember label onto a person, a group, or an idea”
Do these labels convince witnesses to “reject the person or the idea on the basis of the negative label instead of weighing the evidence for themselves”? ]
Matthew 7:3-5 (
“Why do you observe the splinter in your brother’s eye and never notice the plank in your own? How dare you say to your brother, let me take the splinter out of your eye, when all the time there is a plank in your own? Hypocrite! Take the plank out of your own eye first, and then you will see clearly enough to take the splinter out of your brother’s eye.”
i want to know why jw dont accept the holy trinity even though there is enough biblical evidence in the bible regarding this.
the following passages are from the book of john .
1:1. in the beginning was the word: and the word was with god: and the word was god.
The Trinity is a relatively late doctrine. At best an attempt at approximating the nature of God and the relationship between Father, Son & Holy Spirit. If it was and is so clear in the Bible, then why did the doctrine take hundreds of years to evolve. There are far more important things for Christians to debate. We need an open mind on such doctrines instead of just accepting what our denomination says.
I am no longer a trinitarian, but the JW teachings are a mile farther from Scriptural truth than trinitarian teaching. JWs are not actually Christian at all.
when i debate with witnesses and it comes to scripture about jesus making statements that lead to jews thinking jesus is making statements that he is god..many of witnesses denie that jesus was telling the jews that he was god.
i make them turn to john 10:33--->>>there the jews argue about it.
and when they read it..they try to explain,witnesses, it states something different.. witnesses do denie the exsistance of the trinity.
Thanks for reply Yadda.
Having said that, most Christians religions pray to Jesus and worship him to the almost total exclusion of the Father. This flouts Jesus own words that we should render sacred service to the Father only, and his instructions for how we should pray.
I tend to agree with your viewpoint, but I have not personally experienced the practice you describe in my fairly limited involvement with Catholic & several protestant denoms. In the latter, the greatest emphasis was always on the Lord's prayer, or alternatively approaching God through Jesus, for which there is scriptural support. But hey, I've hardly set foot in any churches for more than 20 years.
JW's do not deny that Jesus is divine. Theos in John 1:1 means of the divine nature. They acknowledge that he is a divine god, but that he is a lesser God than the Father.
This is where I really struggle with JW teaching...a lesser God!? Having studied the meanings of the Hebrew & Greek words used in many texts, I believe Scriptures refer to the one true God or false Gods. Are there references to more than one true God?
I do not agree with you that the entire emphasis is on Christ in the Christian Scriptures. If you read Jesus own words in the Gospels you cannot but be struck with how much Jesus talks about the Father and tries to put the emphasis on the Father. The overall testimony of Jesus himself is damning to the notion that he was in any sense God like his heavenly Father is. It is only from Acts onwards where the emphasis shifts 80-90% to Christ and not 'God'.A fair point, I chose the wrong word "entire" emphasis. But we should ask whether it was God's will that so much emphasis in the Christian scriptures, outside the gospels, should be placed on His son, and why. I think the message is - the way to one is through experience of he other. I agree the JWs are wrong to emphasise the OT, but some Christians go too far the other way. I do believe however that the Messiah fulfilled and negated at the same time much of the OT.
i rang by best mate last night to see if his new job going okay - i had agreed to provide a reference & he got the job.
he said the job was good.
i told him i'd been to my cousin's funeral, which was pretty sad - he was only 46. my jw friend asked me whether i believed the bible to be the word of god to which i replied yes.
I rang by best mate last night to see if his new job going okay - I had agreed to provide a reference & he got the job.
He said the job was good. I told him I'd been to my cousin's funeral, which was pretty sad - he was only 46. My JW friend asked me whether I believed the Bible to be the word of God to which I replied yes.
He started using foul & abusive language about everyone and everything, completely unprovoked. I'm talking dozens of repeated use of the f word and many others. I asked why he was swearing at me and why the anger. He said he had looked at some apostate sites who told lies which I believed.
I suggested he shouldn't visit such sites if they upset him so much. I suggested we don't discuss religion, that's not why I rang. But he wanted to discuss religion, but again became extremely abusive. He said he had always hated the world, and been mocked all his life whilst an athiest. I replied, not by me your bext friend, so why the abuse for me? He said he had found the truth and I said I was pleased for him if he had such certainty, because I didn't. More swearing but I stayed very calm and asked him not to swear so much. We have been close friends 35 years and never really fallen out before.
He rang the next morning to apologise, which I accepted. He was going out on 'the work' and needed to say sorry before going preaching to people. I told him to forget the whole incident. He arranged to meet me the next day to watch a football match together, but did not turn up or phone.
Anybody know what on earth is going on with my newly baptised JW friend?
when i debate with witnesses and it comes to scripture about jesus making statements that lead to jews thinking jesus is making statements that he is god..many of witnesses denie that jesus was telling the jews that he was god.
i make them turn to john 10:33--->>>there the jews argue about it.
and when they read it..they try to explain,witnesses, it states something different.. witnesses do denie the exsistance of the trinity.
yaddayadda
Your assessment seems as reasonable, and scriptural, as most things I have read. However, I'm not so sure your description of what those other churches teach is completely accurate. I've been Catholic, adventist and other forms of trinitarian in the past - not now, but none ever taught that Jesus of the NT is Jehovah of the OT. You seem to describe the JW carricature of a trinitarian, rather than what Trinitarians actually believe.
One thought often occurs to me, especially in light of the complete focus on Jesus Christ in the Christian scriptures. Isn't everything's and everyone's nature inherited from their parents. If Jesus Christ is truly the son of God, then that surely says he has some Divinity by nature, as well as having human nature? - and all in line with God's will since before creation.
could someone direct me to a society publication or scan where the wt claims god picked them out of all the religions to be the truth?
what year did this supposedly take place in?
i'm prepping someone on how to talk to a jw they are in contact with.
in the Gospels, Jesus said that he would appoint the FDS upon his arrival.The reinterpretation of the Sheep and Goats parable, put jesus arrival and Judgement at some time future.
So the FDS cannot have been appointed yet.
Hamster,
Your exactly right of course. The only thing I would add is that there is no suggestion that the parable was really about an 'appointment' of a person or an organisation. It reads more like a rhetorical question, followed by a general statement about the good being rewarded and the evil punished.
