jaffacake

Joined

• started 68 topics
• posted 1,506 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by jaffacake

• 
  30

  New!

  by gaybeat in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hey i'm new, you can call me scott.. anyways, here's a blurb.

  i'm 20, and gay haha, and i have been going to jw meetings since highschool, and still going.

  now its gotten to the point where its just nap time and incredibly boring.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  jaffacake

  A Warm Welcome Scott
• 
  8

  Howdy - Help needed

  by jstalin in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  it's great to finally be able to post here (there's been a problem over the last month with new registration).

  i've been lurking for about two months because i have a friend who's a jw and i was interested in finding more out about his religion.

  i started asking him things about it and he would get a bit cagy and wondered why i was asking.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  jaffacake

  jstalin

  Welcome. I am in a similar position to you. My friend is a newly baptised JW & I attended this years memorial with him.

  My mistake was to go in gung-ho and take the doctrines apart in a 40 page dossier. This was handed over to the elders and I'm now treated with great suspicion.

  Communication has all but ceased. I even studied for a couple of months with a JW elder, and tried hard not to question or criticise too much. However, on the first occasion I queried a doctrine and proved from their own publications they don't get information frrom God, to my surprise he agreed with me. I thought this was a breakthrough, but there were no witnesses, and he will no longer study with me.

  I told my lifelong friend what happened and he simply doesn't believe me.

  My advice is to pretend you are genuinely interested and have an open mind. Don't let them get off difficult questions. Pursue one issue at a time before moving on. What reading have you done?

  For ammunition read Crisis of Conscience, In Search of Christian Freedom, Captives of a Concept for starters:

  http://www.commentarypress.com/booklist-eng.html

  I hope you have more success than I have to date. It is ten times harder than I imagined six months ago.
• 
  10

  Next Date to Be Moved 1914 to 1957.

  by Blueblades in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  .

  here is what was mentioned in coc.

  it was mentioned that the generation date could be moved from 1914 to 1957,. so, they would leave 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and re-instate the generation doctrine from 1914 to the 1957 date.. naw, they wouldn't do this.they promised not to fool around with this dating stuff ever again,right.. blueblades

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  jaffacake

  Yes, I remember the Governing Body debating a proposal to switch the date from 1914 to 1957. I seem to recall it was because of the launch of Sputnik into space. The debate was in the 1970s I think.

  The most interesting thing is that the members of the FDS on the Gov Body who supported such a change, clearly had serious doubts about the 1914 date, but went along with the majority vote. Yet rank & file JWs dare not have such doubts.
• 
  16

  Jesus was the first apostate

  by JustTickledPink in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  he was a real rebel, he called the religious leaders out, he walked into the temple and actually overturned tables, he exposed their hypocrisy, he hung out with sinners, he didn't buy into the "organization" he basically walked around and talked to whoever whenever.

  he never built a chuch, he never collected donations, he just preached what he believed to be the truth in a time when the religious leaders were more concerned with status and tradtitions.

  if you look up apostacy in the dictionary the definition is: "renunciation of a religious faith, abandonment of a previous loyalty" it never says you automatically become a devil worshipper or anything scary or evil... just reject a teaching or a loyalty (to an organization.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  jaffacake

  Narkissos

  What you say makes sense, although I have not studied enough, intuitively that seems right from what I have read.

  The more history I read, the more I come to realise that there have always been innumerable religious beliefs and practices, even within Judaism and Christianity.

  Even in Jesus day, it was not a simple matter that Christ was a Jew. This does not tell us much about him after all. Is there any evidence that he leaned towards any particular sect. Or did he start his own, perhaps he called it Jehovah's Witnesses but the reference was removed by later copyists, just so Joseph Rutherford could come along later and take all the glory.

  It would be wonderful and simple, if there were one true and pure religion in the past, and one true religion today. Some try to believe tis is indeed the case, and so avoid history - they find it less painful to carry on dreaming.
• 
  8

  I've got new reading materials

  by Lady Lee in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  after a very long wait i was able to cash in on a gift certificate a couple of weeks ago and just recieved my books.

  the four presidents of the watch tower society by e. c. gruss.

  jehovah's witnesses: their claims, doctrinal changes and prophetic speculations.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  jaffacake

  Lady Lee

  Now you mention it, I seem to recall you mentioning 30 years a couple of months ago. I agree that book adds a whole new dimension to the history of the movement, which I have not read anywhere else.

  Even the books I have marked with fewer stars, I will read more than once. Each book includes important pieces of the jigsaw that help me build up the full picture. Please don't forget to let me know what you think of your new books. Is there anything else you recommend?
• 
  107

  Has anyone still have the hope..................

  by defd in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  for living forever on a paradise earth?

  if not, why?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  jaffacake

  Defd.

  Just found this interesting thread. Personally, having studied scriptures, I don't believe the JW doctrine of paradise earth.

  May I ask you as one who thinks, do you believe in the FDS appointment in 1919? Do you believe that the new covenant and the new testament are only for those who consider themselves anointed JWs?

  What is the 'body of Christ'?

  The Christian scriptures teach that joining a religious organisation has nothing to do with entry into that body. We become members of the body of Christ in one way, by our faith. Whosoever has accepted God's Son as his Head becomes part of that Body.

  If we enter into a personal relationship with God through faith in his Son and his Son's sacrifice, we do not stand alone. We become part of a 'free people' whose 'law' is the law of love, written not on tablets but on human hearts.

  In John 15 Jesus represents himself as a vine and his followers branches joined to the vine. He does not present himself as the roots and say the congregation is the stem to which his followers must be attached. Neither is the vital connection to the other branches. It is to Christ alone. That is how unity is achieved, Christ's body. Not members of a religious system, members of a religious community.
• 
  16

  Jesus was the first apostate

  by JustTickledPink in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  he was a real rebel, he called the religious leaders out, he walked into the temple and actually overturned tables, he exposed their hypocrisy, he hung out with sinners, he didn't buy into the "organization" he basically walked around and talked to whoever whenever.

  he never built a chuch, he never collected donations, he just preached what he believed to be the truth in a time when the religious leaders were more concerned with status and tradtitions.

  if you look up apostacy in the dictionary the definition is: "renunciation of a religious faith, abandonment of a previous loyalty" it never says you automatically become a devil worshipper or anything scary or evil... just reject a teaching or a loyalty (to an organization.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  jaffacake

  I don't know when the divisions started, but believe it was at least 200 years before Christ. It may have been related to the dispersion and the pressure to conform to the manners of the surrounding society.

  In Graeco-Roman society thy were a race apart, refusing to participate in the imperial cult. Yet they offered daily sacrifice on behalf of the emperor in the temple at Jerusalem, and were ready to dedicate synagogues 'to God in honour of the Emperor'

  The Septuagint (Greek translation) of Hebrew scriptures was produced in Alexandria in 3rd century BC. This was widely used by Jews, but when Christians began to use it, some Rabbis denounced the making of the Septuagint as a sin like worship of the golden calf.

  By the first century there were many divisions, most notably the Pharisees, Saduces and Essenes. But even that is an extreme simplification. Even long before Christ the Jews were not a single group who all believed alike, they were as diverse as Christians are now, although this does not fit in with how JWs like to view the world in terms of God's 'organisations' in unity.
• 
  118

  C.T. Russell: a confirmed Pittsburgh Free Mason

  by kid-A in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  there is overwhelming evidence that the spiritual founder of the wts, c.t.

  russell, was a prominent free mason in the pittsburgh community.

  he went so far as to declare: "i am a free mason" in several of his lectures.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  jaffacake

  Rutherford was the real founder of Jehovah's Witnesses, something quite different to what the Bible students believed. Between Russell's death and the new name of Jehovah's Witnesses, Rutherford too wrote about the Great Pyramid being God's stone witness.

  I believe it was Carter's discovery of Tutankhamun's tomb (1922?) that forced a change of doctrine.

  I don't believe Russell was a freemason. I don't believe any conspiracy theories. There is enough for the Watchtower to be embarassed about in cold hard facts, that we need not speculate. We have enough irrefutable material.
• 
  16

  Jesus was the first apostate

  by JustTickledPink in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  he was a real rebel, he called the religious leaders out, he walked into the temple and actually overturned tables, he exposed their hypocrisy, he hung out with sinners, he didn't buy into the "organization" he basically walked around and talked to whoever whenever.

  he never built a chuch, he never collected donations, he just preached what he believed to be the truth in a time when the religious leaders were more concerned with status and tradtitions.

  if you look up apostacy in the dictionary the definition is: "renunciation of a religious faith, abandonment of a previous loyalty" it never says you automatically become a devil worshipper or anything scary or evil... just reject a teaching or a loyalty (to an organization.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  jaffacake

  
  To non-JWs like me the word 'apostate' is just another word. People of all religions acnowledge that all religions change, evolve etc, and that all progressive humans have to renounce former beliefs when they learn new, more enlightened ones.

  It is only in the past year or so, that I discovered that JWs have brain washed negative connotations about this word. I find it ironic because JWs are responsible for more apostasy than any other modern religion I can think of. The last BIG example of apostacy was the change in the "this generation" doctrine.

  They call apostacy "new light" and twist the true meaning of 'apostacy' to mean anything contrary to JW latest teachings.

  They have re-written some of the Bible, so they may as well re-write the dictionary too, starting with words like:

  • apostate
  • truth
• 
  8

  I've got new reading materials

  by Lady Lee in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  after a very long wait i was able to cash in on a gift certificate a couple of weeks ago and just recieved my books.

  the four presidents of the watch tower society by e. c. gruss.

  jehovah's witnesses: their claims, doctrinal changes and prophetic speculations.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  jaffacake

  The Sign of the last Days -When? by COJ is the only one I have read and have a copy of. Excellent read

  ditto Please tell us what you think of the Gruss books, they could be next on my list. Some I have read are not directly about JWs but helped me see the errors of the JW religion so clearly. Books I have at home are shown below with my own star ratings:

  • Crisis of Conscience R Franz 5 stars
  • In Search Of Christian Freedom R Franz 5 stars (plus)
  • Sign of the Last Days - When C O Johnson 3 stars
  • Apocalypse Delayed J Penton 3 stars
  • 30 years a Watchtower Slave W J Schnell 2 stars
  • The Tetragrammaton & the Christian Greek Scriptures 5 stars
  • Combatting Cult Mind Control S Hassan 3 stars
  • Approacing Jehovah's Witnesses in Love W Lingle 3 stars
  • What the Bible Really Teaches Keith Ward 5 stars (plus)
  • teach yourself Christianity 4 stars
  • the early Church H Chadwick 2 stars
  • Exposing 'should you believe in the trinity' A Arellano jr 3 stars
  • Captives of a Concept Don Cameron 5 stars
  • The purpose driven life Rick Warren (not read yet)
  • Studies in Scriptures series 3 Thy Kingdom Come CT Russell
  • Studies...........Series 7 Finished Mystery J Rutherford
  • Harp of God J Rutherford