Posts by Jeffro

38

Were Adam and Eve the only humans created?

by heyfea in

my husband asked me a questions that kind of stumped me for a moment.

he asked, in genesis, when cain killed abel, and god, as punishment cursed him and drove him from the land, making him a restless wanderer, why did cain say to god that the punishment was too hard; that anyone who found him would kill him?

who was going to kill him?

Jeffro

It's a primitive creation myth. Best not to overthink it.

52

1914—The Turning Point in History - Really?

by berrygerry in

1914the turning point in history.

30 from the human standpoint, the world troubles and global wars foretold in the bible were far from the thinking of the pre-1914 world.

german statesman konrad adenauer said: thoughts and pictures come to my mind, .

Jeffro

JW literature has discussed lots of wars. Below are the wars that are featured in their Watch Tower Indexes (there are separate Index sections dedicated to World War I & II), but there's plenty of others that are just mentioned in various articles. But the Balkan wars (1912-1913) and other issues in Europe that led up to World War I are completely ignored by the Watch Tower Society. Causes of World War I, First Balkan War, Second Balkan War.

*** dx86-14 War ***
American Civil War (1861-1865): g95 5/8 13-14
cigarettes: g86 4/8 5
American War of Independence (1775-1783):
Boston Tea Party: g89 9/8 19
Boer War: g86 1/22 20
Caste War (Maya against Spaniards) (1847-1853): w08 12/1 14
Crimean War (1853-1856):
cigarettes: g86 4/8 4
religious factors: w90 12/15 3, 5
English Civil War (Puritan Revolution): g89 9/8 27
Korean War (1950-1953): g 12/08 13; yb88 161-166; g87 5/22 13
experience of captives: w12 12/1 12-13
Opium Wars (1839-1842; 1856-1860): re 263; g89 9/8 19; g88 12/8 6
Christendom’s missionaries back Britain: re 263
Punic Wars (Rome vs. Carthage): g 4/09 18; g01 11/8 16-18
Spanish Civil War (1936-1939):
religious incitement: re 207-208, 262; g90 3/8 7-9
Thirty Years’ War (1618-1648):
coins minted having divine name: w95 5/15 32
Peace of Westphalia (1648): w04 3/15 20-23
pipe smoking: g86 4/8 4
religious motivation: gm 33-34

*** dx30-85 War ***
American Revolution: g76 7/8 3-4; g71 5/22 13-14; w62 717; g38 4/20 18; g37 10/6 6
Armageddon: w85 1/1 3-7; w85 1/15 3-7; w85 2/1 3-7; w85 2/15 5-7; su 18-20; w83 11/1 3-7; g74 11/8 7-8; w73 296-297; w71 623-624; kj 363-368, 372-373, 376-377; w66 726-728, 730; w64 624-628; pw 9-19; g64 5/22 7; w61 718, 724-727; g61 11/22 15; pa 204-210; w55 435-436; sr55 337-343; w51 615-616; lt-2-30 55-57
Boer War: w85 8/1 6; w85 11/1 10
Eighty Years’ War: g72 9/22 21-25
Maori wars: w79 9/15 8-9
Napoleonic: qm 295; qm55 295; g54 12/22 10-11; g47 9/8 4, 6; ta 316
Opium War: g75 5/8 9-12
Peasants’ War in Germany (1524): g79 9/8 7
Taiping Rebellion (China): g82 3/22 7
Third Punic War officially ended: g85 5/8 29
Thirty Years’ War: w82 1/1 4; g72 4/22 13; g71 6/22 16-19; qm 295; g66 7/22 17-20; g65 4/22 5; qm55 295; g52 7/8 20; g47 9/8 4, 8; ta 316, 319; g43 2/3 19-21; g40 9/4 9
U.S. Civil War: g61 12/8 19; g47 9/8 4; g43 1/6 26

29

Why do most Christians churches have masonic and/or pagan symbols?

by kabwell in

has anyone looked at the local churches in their area and seen pagan and freemason symbols both inside and outside.

i am not a jw but at least they don't seem to follow this trend.

why do "christians" wear a symbol of torture and death ?

Jeffro

kabwell:

But I do see the jws as well as other cults closer to the teachings in the NT then most of the protestant and catholic sects

Hang on... you don't know that JWs are a "protestant sect"??

Protestantism --> Adventism --> Bible Student movement --> Jehovah's Witnesses.

Know your subject!!

183

JWs have more good points than bad

by lsw1961 in

1) many who were on the destructive path have been transformed by their teachings (this includes me who was once vicious, and presumptuous and atheistic).

2) equal monthly pay to all members of the bethel community regardless of whether they are bc members or sweepers.

this is something that still remains as an unattainable dream for the world.

Jeffro

1) Many who were on the destructive path have been transformed by their teachings (this includes me who was once vicious, and presumptuous and atheistic)

So being 'atheistic' is on par with being 'vicious'. You, sir, are an idiot.

2) Equal monthly pay to all members of the Bethel community regardless of whether they are BC members or sweepers. This is something that still remains as an unattainable dream for the world. But JWs have successfully done it in all their Offices throughout the world for over a century. This is no insignificant accomplishment as this has the potential to solve virtually all the problems of the world.

The same pittance (a stipend, not a salary) for all the duped 'volunteers' and no retirement benefits is in no way a good thing. Undue influence by high-control groups is one of the problems in the world that definitely won't be solved by this.

3) The way they start their day with discussing a spiritual thoughts (Daily Text) puts the members in a good and positive frame of mind empowering them to deal with the challenges of the day ahead. They way they are being trained to talk to objection-raisers and conversation-stoppers gives them good speech mannerism in all avenues of life.

Hasty generalisation. Most JWs are terrible at explaining their beliefs without a JW publication in their hand. Many are woeful at using just the Bible. This was the case even during their heyday of detailed doctrinal articles, and now the literature is dumbed down so much, the magazines are barely more than pamphlets. JWs are (and always have been) hopeless at dealing with the gaping holes in their 1914 dogma when the scriptures are actually analysed closely (rather than simply leaving out the problems or outright lying in JW publications). And the section on what to say when someone says "I'm a Muslim" was deleted altogether in later printings of the 'Reasoning' book.

4) Numerous legal victories in favor of freedom of expression and beliefs have helped even non-JWs also.

As much as there has been some benefit from some of those cases (mostly in the US), they are tainted by hypocrisy. The Watch Tower Society has also fought cases for the right of organisationally imposed shunning (despite their claim that "No one should be forced to worship in a way that he finds unacceptable or be made to choose between his beliefs and his family", g 7/09 p. 29) as well as spending literally millions of dollars paying out cases of child sexual abuse made possible by deficient policies for dealing with child abuse internally.

5) They effectively invited the attention of the world into the thinking that evolution theory is just a theory believed out of convenience rather than conviction [if it were a principle, all scientists would have unanimously accepted it) and restored many biblical truths which Christendom had obscured (prominent among them is the superiority of Father —at a time when the son was viewed as more prominent than the Father, it was JWs who turned the attention of the world to the normal that The Father is highest of all and son is second in power. Such restorations have the potential to make adherents responsible-minded and good citizens! To accomplish such extra-ordinary things on a global scale, extra-ordinary courage is required.

Firstly, you've just demonstrated that you have no understanding of what constitutes a scientific 'theory'. Secondly, it is extraordinarily naive to believe that JWs have "effectively invited the attention of the world" to this 'issue' (or to any other, really, since most people know little or nothing of JWs). Other fundamentalists (such as the bombastically stupid 'Answers in Genesis' and other nutters) have done far more than JWs have done to try to convince the uneducated masses that evolution is not a reality.

Similarly, there are various 'restorationist' Christian denominations, several of them springing from the same (pre-Russell) Adventist origins as JWs. There is very little that is actually unique about JW beliefs. The doctrinal oddities that 'distinguish' JWs from mainstream Christianity (such as their nontrinitarianism) have nothing at all to do with 'making adherents responsible-minded and good citizens'. And the Seventh-Day Adventist church has more than double the membership of JWs.

List can go on and on. At the same time I admit that they also have their weak side which arose unwittingly out of good-intention. Even Apostle Paul taught (in 1 Cor 10:11) that the kingdom would come in the first century. Such false teaching did not make believers evil citizens of their respective countries; on the contrary it made them more spiritual preparing themselves to meet the Lord! The Lord did not come, so what? People did become more spiritual, more humane just as students who prepare for examination too early do not lose anything! Hence discreet ones will take benefit from their good points and ignore the rest. Because judgment is on individuals (not on the organizations, religions, nations ... etc)—Mathew 25:31-46.

Funny how 'early Christians' (with the implication that this extends to JWs) believing "false teaching did not make believers evil citizens", yet people of other religious are supposedly deserving of death because they accept "false teachings".

However, ignoring all the good points of JWs and lashing them indiscriminately helps no one. Many in this forum lament about disfellowshiping and shunning policy of JWs. Of course I do refrain from shunning which I personally consider as wrong. But people choose to become JWs knowing very well about the above policy! Every organization (and even Governments) will have their own terms and conditions designed to protect their interest, and it is natural that anyone who tries to undermine them has to be disfellowshipped or should attract something similar (as Edward Snowdenrightly expects from the US Government). Such measures are not only right, but also a loving act as this is in the best interest of the majority of the law-abiding members of the organization/Governments. Anyone can have disagreements . When I found certain things confusing, I brought to the attention of the higher-ups who, in turn, told me to wait for Jehovah. I left it at that, and am still in the organization. You may accuse me of trying to be part of a herd which is comforting. If I had asserted, I would have been disfellowshipped and organization would still continue as it was before, thus asserting accomplishes nothing. However, asserting implies trying to prove that individual is more important than the organization, hence such individual should be shown the exit so that he can enjoy life outside the boundary!

You defend shunning, claim that you don't shun, and then try to defend shunning again. This is called cognitive dissonance. And equating the rejection of fundamentalists religious beliefs (refer to quote from Awake! earlier) with leaking national secrets is just plain stupid.

Your statement that "asserting accomplishes nothing" is a pitiful sentiment, suggesting a broken will. Again, the cognitivie dissonance is loud and clear. A paragraph after saying that "judgment is on individuals" and that "discreet ones" will take the "good points and ignore the rest", you say it would be wrong to try to "prove that individual is more important than the organization". I hope that you come to recognise the gaping contradictions in your perspective.

In your case, you are not enjoying your lives even after coming out of JWs as you are still worrying about what JWs are doing and attacking them relentlessly (just like a divorced husband, who passionately monitors his former wife and attacks her with no let up). What did those who declared: “we should kill Lazarus also” gain? (John 12:10) You can easily dismiss Lazarus episode as fictional. Yet history has enough examples of attacking the good just because they are good.

You seem to have a distorted perception of former JWs, as if they're comic-book villains who are just 'bad for the sake of being bad'. It's an extremely naive delusion. And who are you to tell others whether or not they are happy?!

183

JWs have more good points than bad

by lsw1961 in

1) many who were on the destructive path have been transformed by their teachings (this includes me who was once vicious, and presumptuous and atheistic).

2) equal monthly pay to all members of the bethel community regardless of whether they are bc members or sweepers.

this is something that still remains as an unattainable dream for the world.

Jeffro

lsw1961:

This is the benefit of being a JW. We have the guts to call a spade spade. You would notice from my post that I am still able to discriminate between the good and the bad in JWs.

So... from your 'totally unbiased' sample size of 'you', you've decided that all JWs are objective. Brilliant logic. Well done.

71

Which bible character do you hate the most?

by Bonsai in

the more i think about it, the more i feel an extreme dislike for the apostle paul.

he was on par with hitler in his treatment of the jews before he "saw the light".

he replaced jesus teachings of love and mercy with a more legalistic, pharisaical concept of devotion to god.. any evil person can come to believe in god and worship him if the scales were literally and miraculously removed from his eyes.

Jeffro

Simon:

The NT is just some hippy's drug trip about how great the world would be if everyone loved each other. Then the suits arrive and make it into a corporation before it ends with someone taking hallucinogenics.

That is probably the best and most concise description of the NT I've ever heard.

29

Why do most Christians churches have masonic and/or pagan symbols?

by kabwell in

has anyone looked at the local churches in their area and seen pagan and freemason symbols both inside and outside.

i am not a jw but at least they don't seem to follow this trend.

why do "christians" wear a symbol of torture and death ?

Jeffro

Why do most Christians churches have masonic and/or pagan symbols?

'Christian churches' didn't develop in a vacuum. Christianity is just another religion based on older 'pagan' superstitions. It's therefore entirely unsurprising that it recycles much of the same imagery. (And as has already been rightly pointed out, freemasonry later borrowed themes from Christianity, not the other way around.)

35

83,000 theocratic facilites?

by average joe in

a bethelite was telling me that there are 83,000 theocratic facilities world wide.

he compared that to 35,000 mcdonalds and 21,000 starbucks roughly to show the size of the theocratic organization.

i am not sure where the 83,000 comes from what would he be counting?

Jeffro

average joe:

He compared that to 35,000 mcdonalds and 21,000 starbucks

Why?! They're not religious institutions. They're open longer hours. They serve more people.

Perhaps it's valid to say they're all led by evil corporations. Other than that, the comparison is essentially meaningless.

19

2015-2016-More BOEs just arrived!

by Atlantis in

these boes just arrived!.

.. re: global assistance arrangement for the 2016 service year .

http://wwwb.fileflyer.com/view/xnlm2ba.

Jeffro

The 'Global Assistance' letter tries to dress up 'give us more money' as 'assisting with disasters', but then it states that "contributions are not restricted to any one activity," so it's not really a 'global assistance' fund at all. It's just more money for Watch Tower.

19

2015-2016-More BOEs just arrived!

by Atlantis in

these boes just arrived!.

.. re: global assistance arrangement for the 2016 service year .

http://wwwb.fileflyer.com/view/xnlm2ba.

Jeffro

From the 'answer sheet'...

Why were the Israelites who did not volunteer to return to Jerusalem not necessarily weak in faith? (Ezr 1:3-6) [Jan. 18, w06 1/15 17 ¶5; 19 ¶1] Some Israelites may not have returned to Jerusalem because they were materialistic or lacked appreciation for true worship, but this was not true in every case. The 1,000-mile (1,600 km) journey to Jerusalem took four or five months. Moreover, settling in a land that had remained desolate for 70 years and doing the rebuilding work there would require much physical stamina. Therefore, unfavorable circumstances, such as physical ailments, advanced age, and family obligations, undoubtedly prevented some from returning. Like some of the Israelites who remained in Babylon, many of Jehovah’s Witnesses cannot take up the full-time ministry or serve where the need is greater. Yet, they support and encourage those who can and make voluntary donations to further the Kingdom-preaching and disciple-making work.

Only the Watch Tower Society could turn 'not all Jews returned from Babylon to Jerusalem' into 'give us more money'.