kid-A

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Posts by kid-A

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  1380

  The Gentiles Times Reconsidered--Again but this Time By Using the Bible

  by thirdwitness in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  think about this: if seven times mean only 7 years then daniel could have simply said 7 years.

  why does daniel specifically use the word 'times' rather than years?

  as we have already shown daniel used the word for 7 times instead of 7 years.

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  kid-A

  607 >>>>>>>
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  13

  Are there any "socket puppets" on this site?

  by slimboyfat in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  .

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/sock_puppet_%28internet%29

  slim

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  kid-A

  Yes. An infamous troll named PMJ had several socket puppets that would magically appear to support him, but only on his own threads. He was busted a couple times

  when he forgot to disguise the IP addresses.
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  31

  It seems.......

  by agapa37 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  that despite my sincere efforts of sincerity and honesty that most who interacted with me were rather uptight and rude.

  i really dont understand it.

  forgive my babbling.

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  kid-A

  there may be good reason why she is evading the "are you an active witness" question

  I agree. However, this DB is completely anonymous and I see no danger in simply stating whether one is or is not an active JW. I like to know where people are coming from, it certainly facilitates discussion. Frankly, I wish more active JWs did participate on the board. As long as they are coming to discuss and debate and not simply expecting a JW-style group think experience where everyone happily agrees with their perspective.

  On another point, if one is an active JW, why would'nt such an individual proclaim this? Its simple, really: "Hey folks, I'm an active JW and I believe X and Y and disagree with X and Y, etc etc". Cool. No problem. I enjoy a lively and heated debate. In fact, there was a previous poster here, defd, who posted as an active JW and was treated with complete respect here in the context of debate. I thought his support of the WTS was absurd, yet I respected the fact that he was upfront about where he stood as an active JW.

  The problem arises when apologists (and I dont consider Agapa an apologist) attempt to belittle the painful experiences many ex-dubs have endured or are callously dismissive of the ruinous and hateful policies of the JWs, the same policies and beliefs that have led to the deaths of children and the destruction of families.

  p.s. Thanks Tex!
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  18

  The "Fade" - Evaluating A New Phenomenon

  by slimboyfat in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  to what extent has the growth of the "fade" been facilitated by internet forums such as this?

  sure there were people who chose to fade in the pre-internet era, simply by withdrawing themselves, gradually involving themselves with non-witnesses to a greater extent, or getting in touch with other ex-witnesses covertly through the convention system/telephone and mailing support network that used to be more important before the advent of the internet.

  so the "fade" is not an invention of the internet era, not en entirely "new phenomenon".

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  kid-A

  We see the start of a precipitous drop in growth around the early 90s, when the internet truly started to become a global phenomenon. However, it is impossible to interpret this in the context of "fading". First, the WTS has not and will never release stats on faders because they dont represent a homogenous group. Some fade by not attending meetings at all and no service, some are partial faders who still make the odd appearance in field service and report hours.

  Finally, we cant know for certain the underlying factors for fading. For many, its simply a matter of boredom and apathy with the JW lifestyle, not any crystallized intellectual opposition to the teachings or history of the JWs. For these faders, who may, in all possibility, represent the majority of faders (and we have no way of knowing this), the internet is not likely to have had any role in their fade out. For the other class of faders, who actively oppose the teachings of the dubs and are disturbed by the history of the WTS, the internet of course has been extremely beneficial.

  Having said that, my fade was sped up by doing good old fashioned research on my campus library and reading the works of Ray Franz and the Bottings, long before I had ever discovered the info on the web.
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  31

  It seems.......

  by agapa37 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  that despite my sincere efforts of sincerity and honesty that most who interacted with me were rather uptight and rude.

  i really dont understand it.

  forgive my babbling.

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  kid-A

  Sorry, but nobody has been rude to you. Several of us have attempted to engage you in debate about certain biblical points and analyses you have presented in other threads. These attempts were all made in the spirit of exchange and interaction. At one point I merely asked you if you were an active JW, simply because I wanted to understand where you were coming from in your stated positions. Nothing rude about that at all. You chose to ignore my question, which in fact, is very rude. And you refused to answer several of the discussion questions posed to you by Ozzie, a long-time and well-respected member of the board and moderator.

  I suggest you realize that this is a free discussion board. Discussion involves the presentation of various angles and viewpoints, not all of which you will like or agree with. Its a very different world here than in the kingdom hall. And there is a reason the watcthtower has advised active JWs not to frequent apostate message boards such as this one.
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  39

  It is that simple!!

  by Rooster in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  john 20:30-31

  30 to be sure, jesus performed many other signs also before the disciples, which are not written down in this scroll.

  31 but these have been written down that you may believe that jesus is the christ the son of god, and that, because of believing, you may have life by means of his name.

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  kid-A

  Honestly Rooster,

  Do you have any independent thoughts or are you just capable of cutting and pasting english translations of ancient texts written thousands of years ago in the middle east by the Jesus fanclub?

  Frankly, this sort of proselytizing is no better than a jehovahs witness parrotting some watchtower verses whilst trying to shove their belief system down my throat....

  Ever considered the possibility that YOU are wrong? And the jews or hindus or muslims or ba-hais or buddhists or wiccans or satanists or Neptune worshippers may be right?
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  31

  Got any quick 1914 / 607 points?

  by drew sagan in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  tomarrow i'm meeting with a jw friend who is connected to what's going on with these elders that came over our house and everything else.

  i can't get into details as to how it works out, but this is the important part.

  this guy (and elder) can be a quite reasonable person.

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  kid-A

  And if Alan or anyone else knows, when was the first appearance of the current WTS 607 chronology published using the fake 607 date? Did Russell ever directly use this date?
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  43

  Big Announcement - From JW Elder

  by Qcmbr in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  if you read my other post you'll get the context but since this will be of great potential interest here it is: .

  the jws are soon(next few months) going to make a public proclamation against all other churches which he was confident would 'shake things up' and would make a few jws unhappy???.

  is this the big announcement for september?

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  kid-A

  They have been making that proclamation since the days of Rutherford.
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  31

  Got any quick 1914 / 607 points?

  by drew sagan in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  tomarrow i'm meeting with a jw friend who is connected to what's going on with these elders that came over our house and everything else.

  i can't get into details as to how it works out, but this is the important part.

  this guy (and elder) can be a quite reasonable person.

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  kid-A

  Alan,

  If CT Russell explicitely laid out the 607 chronology prior to 1891, I will happily concede. However, I have an original copy of Thy Kingdom Come and no mention of this chronology (resembling anything currently used by the WTS vis-a-vis 607 is mentioned in it. Certainly he wrote this as "corroborative evidence", but he presented the information as stand alone evidence for 1914, regardless of 607.

  Second, you stated that Russell made no mention of 1914 in his Pyramid chapter, but in reality, he discussed this date exhaustively in this very same chapter, directly in reference to 1914:

  From Thy Kingdom Come, page 364, Line 5: "Is not this a most remarkable agreement between this stone "witness" and the bible? The dates, October 1874, and October, 1881, are exact, while the date 1910, though not furnished in the scriptures, seems more than a reasonable one for some important event in the Church's experience and final testing, while A.D. 1914 is apparently well-defined as its close, after which the worlds greatest trouble is due, in which some of the 'great multitude' may have a share. And in this connection let us remember that this date limit-A.D. 1914- must not only witness the completion of the selection and trial and glorification of the entire body of Christ...."

  He continues on the same page, line 29: The four years from 1910 to the end of 1914, indicated thus in the Great Pyramid, will doubtless be a time of "fiery trial" upon the Church (1 Cor. 3:15) preceding the anarchy of the world, which cannot last long".....

  >here he not only reiterates the role of the pyramid in the 1914 prediction, but adds another fabrication, "1910", which to my knowledge, was never again mentioned as having any significance whatsoever in subsequent WTS publications.

  Thus while I have no doubt Russell did not create 1914 in a vacuum, he certainly ripped some of his dates off of Barbour, however, based on the contents of Thy Kingdom Come, published in 1891, 607 appeared to have had no role in his 1914 calculations, and if it did, I would be happy to see the citations of quotes where these calculations were published, prior to 1891.
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  60

  The softer side of the Bible

  by agapa37 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  to many times the bible is fired upon and put in negative light due to the contents of it.

  however i would like to post some encouraging scriptures from that book.. 1) for those experiencing trials because of illness.

  revelations 21:4-5.

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  kid-A

  "just2sheep, I REALLY HATE IT when board members are lumped, and a sweeping statement is made about our motives. Shame." Jgnat, for the record, your comment was 100% spot-on !