I believe she was found with her face down in the baptising fountain. I feel so sad when I hear things like this, its like a lump inside me,and I cant even cry. It`s almost so I won`t read the news anymore, to avoid these kinds of stories. I hope they find this guy who did it, and string him up in the nearest tree.
Hellrider
JoinedPosts by Hellrider
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6
Girl was raped in Adventist Church during the cult! (Brazil)
by rosa inin southern brazilian city of joinville a 2 years-old girl was raped in a seven day adventist church during the cult!
the girl died after the rape.
this case was march 3 and now i receive more information about it.
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Lost Tomb Of Jesus Family tomb
by magdalenefan ineverybody, here is the website... losttombofjesus.com.
these are great sites and everyone is trying to decipher the family crest above the tomb.. i believe jesus was married and had a wife and kid.
and he is buried with his wife, son, mother ,father and brothers.
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Hellrider
This grave-controversy is interesting, because people with different agendas even get confused as to what they`re supposed to mean about it. Non-christians and sceptics now jump on the wagon to suport this "find", because if the find is real, it`s yet another nail in the coffin of christianity. If Jesus` bones are found, he was not risen in the flesh, ergo, the whole of christianity is a hoax. Had this been any other historical figure, these same sceptic would have maintained their sceptical attitude, and at least waited for the experts to examine this site thouroughly. The chances that this find really is Jesus grave, are very small.
- The writing on the little "boxes" is/has been very hard to translate. Not even the name that supposedly says "yeshua, son of Joseph", is a safe bet.
- Even if the name is correct, both these names (as well as the names on the other "boxes" were the most common names in the area.
- The earliest followers of Jesus never called him, "Jesus, son of Joseph", at least not according to the Bible.
- It's unlikely Joseph, who had died earlier in Galilee, would have been buried in Jerusalem
- It`s unlikely Jesus, who was a Nazarean, would have been buried in Jerusalem, the city in which he was even labelled a blasphemer against god by the religious authority. The alternative would be that he was buried somewhere else, only to, 300 years later, when christianity had become the states religion, be buried up, and brought back to Jerusalem. Of course, had this been the case, it would probably not ahve been a secret, or if it was a secret, the church fathers, who believed in the physical ressurection, would have disposed of the body (in the fashion the jws says Jehobah did...)
- Fourth-century church historian Eusebius makes quite clear the body of James, brother of Jesus, was buried alone near the temple mount.
- The two Mary ossuaries do not mention anyone from Migdal, but just Mary, a common name
...so sorry to disappoint all the (unexpected) "believers" (!!!!) in the final deathblow to christianity...
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BASIC thinking....a TEST of how rational we are.
by Terry indarkness and light.. something and nothing.. heat and cold.. happiness and sadness.. love and hate.. which of the above are actually existing things and which are conceptual constructs?.
hint: this is a trick question.
but, go ahead and answer anyway.
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Hellrider
To say you have "no way of knowing" if a cloud is real is to ignore two hundred years of science! Is this discussion taking place in a time warp? Are you sitting in a parlour in the Middle Ages?
No, what you are doing, is ignoring (ironically enough) several hundred years of sceptical philosophy. Yes, I can see the cloud, with my eyes, but really, all i know is that I have an impression of a cloud in the skies! I have no way of knowing whether there really is such a thing as a cloud. All I know is that the impression I have of the things I see, is usually stronger than the impressions of the things I feel. You should read up on your Kant and Hume. Silly as this may seem, I originally objected to your line of thought because I felt (...) that you underestimated feelings. Your (empirical) approach is worthless. None of the thought you put into your first post, would have been there in the first place, had it not been for your particular feelings on this subject! There is no thought without feeling. Is there feeling in 2 plus 2? Perhaps not, but that doesn`t even mean that 2 plus 2 is an eternal "truth". You should read contemporary philosophy. Start with someone that goes straight to the core of this issue, W.v.O.Quine: http://www.philosophypages.com/ph/quin.htm
Love may be more "real" to you than a cloud IF YOU HAVE NO EDUCATION
I`m not really interested in this kind of discussion. I jumped ship long before the university of Awake got me, if you didn`t, don`t take it out on me.
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BASIC thinking....a TEST of how rational we are.
by Terry indarkness and light.. something and nothing.. heat and cold.. happiness and sadness.. love and hate.. which of the above are actually existing things and which are conceptual constructs?.
hint: this is a trick question.
but, go ahead and answer anyway.
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Hellrider
Is love a really existing thing? More exactly, is love real in the way a cloud is real? If you have trouble answering this your rational thinking is being impaired by failure to distinguish a concept from a defintion.
Concepts are labels. Definitions allow us to know how real or abstract the concept really is!
The term "concept" is a concept. The term "definition" is a concept. The term "real" is a concept. The term "abstract" is a concept. You have no way of knowing if a cloud is real, and certainly no more real than a feeling, because the cloud that you see is an image. You have no way of knowing if there really is a cloud there, or if there is, that it actually has the shape it seems to have. All you have is the "sache fûr mich", not the thing in itself. To me, love is certainly more real than a cloud, simply because it interests me a whole lot more. I don`t care about clouds...
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Qaulifying for life in the new world
by skeptic1914 inattended co public talk today, "will you qualify for life in god's new world?.
the essence in this quote: "it is essential that we cooperate with the fds, that we conform to bible standards and that we ourselves share in preaching the good news of the kingdom.
" not once was faith in jesus christ mentioned.
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Hellrider
That speech only demonstrates what a perverted and misunderstood version of christianity they believe and teach. The title itself goes directly against all that is the message of christianity. It`s just sad.
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Need some help regarding the Gnostics - a discussion with a Christian
by needproof inhi guys .
well recently i was watching a documentary called 'the new atlantis' concerning america's beginnings.
the documentary clearly has a pro-christian agenda, and one line in particular stood out for me.
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Hellrider
He`s not right, and you`re not right...
The question "who came first" is meaningless. The gnostic cults grew and developed during the 2nd century in the Roman and Alexandrian schools founded by Valentius, but that does not mean that these cults didn`t exist before this! There is knowledge about christianity from the 2nd century, and from the 3rd century there is tons of information, but very little is known about christianity of the first century. Unlike what most christians of today wants to believe (especially the Jehovahs Witnesses), christianity of the first century was not a group of congregations that all held to the same doctrines. There were all sorts of thoughts and doctrines, the different congregations even read different texts. So noone can speak of an "original" christianity at all (which is what would be necessary to argue that there was a clear distinction between "gnostics" and "christians" allready at this time, or that there was a united front against the gnostics). Further, gnostic thought is part of christianity today...both the Gospel of John and Revelation has gnostic elements in them. Your opponent wrote:
Gnosticism is what happens when you combine the Pagan mysteries with Christianity.
LoL. Well, christianity is what happens when you combine jewish religion with pagan mysteries and traditions. But of course, don`t tell him that...
By the way, take a look at this site:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/
...you will see that the "gnostic" texts, the texts that the later "church" condemnded as heresies, are (almost) contemporary with the "christian" texts...they are dependent on the gospels, but the gospels alone is not what makes christianity what it is.
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Talk on Apostates
by IslandBrother inhave you ever walked on the beach and tried following another persons footprints; matching your own steps with them as exactly as possible?
by calling ourselves christians, we have indicated our desire to do just that, to follow closely in the footsteps of christ.
have you ever noticed though that on a crowded beach, , there were several sets of footprints, many of them may look alike.
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Hellrider
They forgot to mention: "They still actually read the tons of crap that we, the Watctower, spewed out years ago, the stuff that turned out to be lies, and then they remind us of it"...
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In the end, what will really matter?
by exwitless inin light of the current deep philosophical discussions whirling around, i thought i would post another topic to ponder.
hillary step motivated me to start this topic by this comment on another thread:.
if there is anything that i have learned in my 500 years of life, is that none of it matters much anyway.. we all end up in some dismal cemetry with drunken kids urinating on our tombstones anyway.
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Hellrider
Ex-witless: I absolutely agree. I came to the same conclusion myself. My summary eventually ended up being: "Ok, God, if he exists, couldn`t possibly get mad at me for not believing (when taking into consideration how much horror religion has caused over the centuries, the millions of starving children, science, that has proved without a doubt that there is evolution taking place in nature, etc). And so, if God exists, and also is good, he couldn`t possibly blame me for not believing in something that I can`t see. After all, he`s the one that gave me this analytical, sceptical mind. And therefore, what it all comes down to, is what I do, not what I believe or don`t believe! Because I still feel strongly the difference between good and bad, and I am a person that constantly evaluates my own values, morals, prejudices, etc, I can`t really be that bad. And if there is a God, and this is not enough for him, then to hell with him. Case closed!"
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Name EVERYTHING JW's aren't allowed to do
by JH inname everything that you can think of, that normal people can do, but jw's aren't allowed to do.. and if it's a conscience matter, write it down anyways.. .
i'll start.
jw's aren't allowed to vote..
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Hellrider
For kids:
- Go to birthdays (or have one of their own).
- Celebrate christmas, or participate in anything christmasy, such as walking around the christmas tree at school, or parttake in "christmas shop" in school (tradition in many European countries,the kids make christmas decorations etc, at school).
- Religion class at school (at least this was the case when I grew up, in the 80s).
- "Unfitting" music. Some toys may also be considered inapropriate.
- After-school activities used to be discouraged. I was not allowed to be on the soccer or hockey team, because it would mean that I had to spend to much time with "worldly" kids. This principle is also a great way for cheap dads to avoid spending the money for sport gear and tuition. I don`t know if it`s the same these days.
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to join or not
by dontknow ini've had in the past studied a little about the bible with jws but have yet decided to be baptised.. i've just read lavenders' moving letter to her son and her love and well being for him is very obvious.
i do like the bible teachings very much and to this day i'm very interested in the end of the system of things which will very soon come to fruition; i'm a very strong believer, however i must stipulate to all, in retrospect i'm not sinless.
one of the posters says that jw's ask you to do a liitle bible study with them, attend one of their meetings and when you get baptised you have to do exactly what you are instructed or else.
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Hellrider
Dontknow:
I think I can help you with some of your questions:
Initially it was he he who really opened my eyes to see that they are really in his words dictators, that is those who established the watch tower society who wrote their own doctrine not inspired by Gods word and that the difference between them and other groups is that they don't believe in idolatry, believe they will inherit everlasting life and that only 144,000 chosen ones will govern in heaven with God.
They get around this by calling the 144000 "slaves" or "servants". This is 101 in cult strategy and mind control: Make the masses (in this case, the "great crowd") believe that the bosses are actually their servants! Then the bosses can make the masses go along with anything. Remember, Josef Stalin never referred to himself as the "father" of the USSR, no, he was called "comrade", just as everyone else... It`s pretty basic, actually. On a sidenote: All serious theologians agree that the 144000 are not a distinct group of christians. According to all serious theologians, both "groups" have the same destination: heaven. Here is a good commentary on Revelation 7, the 144000 and the great multitude:
Did the WTs change God's name to Jehovah from YEHWAH; if so with whose authority and how? Did God send these 11 representatives an e-mail, fax or telegram to do so? (not being clever here)
Is Gods name YHWH, YEHWAH or Jehovah?
The name of God, in the manner he presents himself (!!) to his people in the Old Testament, is YHWH. The correct pronounciation is a little unknown, but not completely. Most likely, the pronounciation was Yahweh or Yahowah, but other forms, Yahu and Yaho has also been found in greek non-biblical texts. The europeanisation of the name, "Jehovah" is the result of a mistranslation by the spanish monk Raymundus Martini, who used it in his book Pugeo Fidei of the year 1270 AD. The origin of the name in hebrew is possibly the verb "ha-wah", meaning "to become". YHWH probably means "causing to become" or "He who ... causes to become". The jws have used the uncertainty about the correct pronounciation of the name as an argument for arbitrarily choosing the name "Jehovah", thereby inventing their own God !! If you don`t believe this, go to your local KH and start talking about "Jahveh". They will think you`re talking about a completely different God, and consider you a heretic... Note also that nowhere in the NT is the name used, except in one occasion in Revelation, in the expression "Hallelujah". This expression is a story of its own, and doesn`t necessarily have much to do with "Gods name" anymore at all (at the time it was written). Jesus refers always to God as "Father" in the Gospels. Nowhere does he use the name yhwh. In not one single early manuscript or even earlier fragments is yhwh found, and there are something like 50.000 fragmens of the NT, some as early as 2nd century. The truth is, that by the time the NT was being written, the name (also called the tetragrammation) wasn`t used anymore, neither by jews nor christians. The reasons for this are complex, and hasn`t only got to do with superstition, such as the jws claim, but there were other, more complex reasons too, primarily the move from a henotheistic judaism to a real monoteistic judaism. In other words: When the jews started believing that only one God existed (they stopped believing that other Gods existed also after the Babylonian exile), the name became redundant, as there was no need for a name anymore, to separate the God of Israel from other Gods.
Are they wealthy?
The Watchtower Society is very wealthy. Their official assets, real estate included, are something like 750 million dollars. The real number is probably several times higher, because the WTS is the official owner of the Kingdom Halls around the world. The highstanding jws, the members of the governing body, (probably) dont have mansions and big houses, but they live well. When they travel around the world, they live at first class hotels, etc. It`s more about a certain lifestyle on the companys expense, rather than having secret accounts in Switserland...(after all, there`s no need for that, when you don`t loose your job until you die...).
From where does the source of wealth originate?
Previously, the door-to-door-work payed off. Now it doesn`t pay off anymore. The money now comes from real estate speculation, as well as gifts / donations from wealthy members/sympathisers.
How do they directly communicate with God as they say?
Lol. They have never answered that question, and I don`t think they ever will...