Posts by Hellrider

30

I just can't shake this feeling about the word Jehovah, and Now I know why

by A-Team in

had to do a little historic research to find out that jehovah is actually 2 hebrew words compounded: yah(h) and hovah.

yah(h) means: "i exist," "i am," "i create," or "i will be or bring into being.

hovah means: ruin, mischif, but yet,it's root, havvah,translates as: "calamity, iniquity, mischief, mischievous (thing), naughtiness, naughty, noisome, perverse thing, substance, very wickedness.

Hellrider

Narkissos, I have a few questions for us that don`t know anything about hebrew and things like that, maybe you could clear it up for us:

1) The old Yah="I am"-myth, is it correct to say that this is derived from the Septuagint-translation of one of the titles from God in the OT? Like: I AM the Lord who brought you out of Egypt blah blah = EGW EIMI etcetera something something? - and that this title (the beginning of his titles) became "synonymous" (in the minds of the greek) with Gods name (yahweh), and that this is where this misconception came from? And if so: Could it be that this "misconception" was in the mind of the writer of the Gospel of John too - and that what he meant by putting all these egw eimi in the mouth of Jesus, was to actually say that he claimed to be God? (if the latter part of this question is to "big", just ignore it)

2) Are you saying that the name yahweh has nothing to do with the verb hawah (and does hawah mean "causing to become" or "causing mischief"?) If so, what does the name mean? What are its roots?

11

UN Question

by NFD in

i'm getting ready for a sit-down debate with my family in a couple days regarding the dubs, and i have most of the bases covered.

however, i cant quite figure out what the society had to gain from their involvement with the un... besides their compulsive need to lie.

little help?

Hellrider

LoL no, it wasn`t for no library card.

The reason why the WTS joined the UN was to be able to stand under the UNs protective umbrella. At this time, the early 90s, the WTS saw which way their organisation was heading. Enlisting numbers in the western world dropped dramatically. The newly baptised were primarily jw-kids. But: In third-world countries, and south-America and eastern Europe, there was great potential. In these countries, there are more people without higher education (and consequently - a less developed BS-detector...) - and they are poorer, with little or no internet-access. The perfect ground for the WTS-cult. But alas, because of poorly developed, little (or no) democracy in these countries, religious freedom (which is what the WTS-virus needs to gain territory) was scarce. The solution? Join the most powerful organisation in the world, the one organisation pushing for democracy and religious freedom everywhere.

That`s why they did it. And all the "scarlet-coloured harlot riding the beast"-propaganda was swept under the rug faster than you could say "governing body"... The funniest part of this is all the dubs around the world, who have no clue as to what went on...and they still believe in that great Crooklyn-hoax, the WTS.

30

I just can't shake this feeling about the word Jehovah, and Now I know why

by A-Team in

had to do a little historic research to find out that jehovah is actually 2 hebrew words compounded: yah(h) and hovah.

yah(h) means: "i exist," "i am," "i create," or "i will be or bring into being.

hovah means: ruin, mischif, but yet,it's root, havvah,translates as: "calamity, iniquity, mischief, mischievous (thing), naughtiness, naughty, noisome, perverse thing, substance, very wickedness.

Hellrider

Thanks IP, I`ll look at that thread.

Bonnie:

The answer that I used to hear to this was that we don't have the exact pronunciation of Jesus either.

Yes, I`ve heard that argument too, but it`s just stupid. The NT was written in greek, and Jesus is called "Iasous", so his name is translated from the very beginning (from the hebrew version Yeshua). The same is not the case for Yahweh, and it is questionable whether it should be translated (if it`s as holy as they claim it to be).

30

I just can't shake this feeling about the word Jehovah, and Now I know why

by A-Team in

had to do a little historic research to find out that jehovah is actually 2 hebrew words compounded: yah(h) and hovah.

yah(h) means: "i exist," "i am," "i create," or "i will be or bring into being.

hovah means: ruin, mischif, but yet,it's root, havvah,translates as: "calamity, iniquity, mischief, mischievous (thing), naughtiness, naughty, noisome, perverse thing, substance, very wickedness.

Hellrider

I`m a bit bewildered...I knew allready that "the name" was rooted in a verb, hawah, but until this point, I believed hawah meant "to become" (I believe I heard it on this board)! Then I checked Wikipedia, and it says:

A root hawah is represented in Hebrew by the nouns howah (Ezek., Isa. xlvii. II) and hawwah (Ps., Prov., Job) "disaster, calamity, ruin." [46] The primary meaning is probably "sink down, fall", in which sense (common in Arabic) the verb appears in Job xxxvii. 6 (of snow falling to earth).

A Catholic commentator of the 16th century, Hieronymus ab Oleastro, seems to have been the first to connect the name "Jehova" with "howah" interpreting it as "contritio sive pernicies" (destruction of the Egyptians and Canaanites); Daumer, adopting the same etymology, took it in a more general sense: Yahweh, as well as Shaddai, meant "Destroyer", and fitly expressed the nature of the terrible god who he identified with Moloch.

The derivation of Yahweh from hawah is formally unimpeachable, and is adopted by many recent scholars, who proceed, however, from the primary sense of the root rather than from the specific meaning of the nouns. The name is accordingly interpreted, He (who) falls (baetyl, ßa?t????, meteorite); or causes (rain or lightning) to fall (storm god); or casts down (his foes, by his thunderbolts). It is obvious that if the derivation be correct, the significance of the name, which in itself denotes only "He falls" or "He fells", must be learned, if at all, from early Israelitish conceptions of the nature of Yahweh rather than from etymology.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yhwh

...anyone know the real story here?

24

The Truth From the Bible About the 144,000

by AllTimeJeff in

i hope this wont take me too long, as being concise isnt my biggest talent.

a recent thread on the 144,000 made me put a couple of things together about the governing body.

these are the ones that claim to have authority from jehovah, to tell the over 6,00,000 that although we arent masters over anyones faith, these 150 items are absolutely prohibited for you to do.

Hellrider

oompa:

Hellrider, funny you mention the four angels at the corners holding back the wind. we just studied that in rev book and we dont believe that simple statment either. no, has to be 4 group of angels, and stupid little groups of three apparantly, look at the full page picture in sure enough, not four angels, but two groups of three angels at two corners, so we really get 12 for the job----no expanation!!

LoL. Ask an elder to explain it (all innocent-like; dear brother oh-so-theocratic, I am having some difficulties understanding this with the groups of angels...could you please help me with this..."). It would be fun to hear if they know the explanation to these crazy doctrines...and if they don`t...then why are they even elders?

24

The Truth From the Bible About the 144,000

by AllTimeJeff in

i hope this wont take me too long, as being concise isnt my biggest talent.

a recent thread on the 144,000 made me put a couple of things together about the governing body.

these are the ones that claim to have authority from jehovah, to tell the over 6,00,000 that although we arent masters over anyones faith, these 150 items are absolutely prohibited for you to do.

Hellrider

Yeah. And especially this:

144,000 = 24 elders

Where did they get that one from! 24 elders? is that like...another group (of groups) then, 144000 : 24 = roughly 7000 pr. "group" (darn, where is my calculator...) There is no connection. They are two distinct groups. They could just as "logically" have equated the 144000 with the angels of the 4 corners of the earth or something. It`s just as "logical". But no, they needed the group with the crowns, to establish auuthority!

But this part, this "argument", this long list of scripturally unfounded assumptions, I doubt most JWs have ever thought much about it. They instinctively shy away from it, because they can`t understand it. And the sad part is that they believe that it`s too "complicated" for their little brains, after all, they`re just of the "great crowd", they have limited insight into the "higher matters", they just follow the slave and everything will be alright...while in reality, they are shying away from these "complicated" things, not because they are complicated, but because they are scripturally unfounded leaps of "faith", and deep, deep down, they can instinctively feel this, but they avoid the conclusions due to the implications this would have.

Pheew...I think I sprained my brain there...

8

Historians of old -i.e. Josephus

by AgentSmith in

recently i have been reading some research that refers to josephus and some roman scribes that reported about jesus and his activities.

there are reportedly, thousands of writings (the bible excluded) that confirm that jesus in fact existed.

i was wondering, how many of these writers were there at the time, or was in direct contact with jesus.

Hellrider

JCanon:

John was "the one whom Jesus loved" (if you get my drift)

Yeah,yeah JC, sure we do...

30

Email from my Mom defending WTS, Point/counter point/ Point

by Burger Time in

a little back story; i have been having a lot of debates with my mom about society stuff.

anyways i directed her to the watchtower documents and the molestation charges.

she then sent me an email here is what she wrote, the orginal email was just a link to the site and i said something to the effect of, jehovah makes public the records that were supposed to be hidden!

Hellrider

A man was driving in a blizzard. Things were looking really bad when he saw a snow plow just ahead. He decided to follow the snowplow. He drove and drove following as closely as he dared , sometimes losing sight of the plow, but then seeing it again. Things were really bad. Finally, the snowplow stopped. The driver got out and came to the man's window. the man rolled down the window and the plow driver asked, "Where are you going? The man replied, " Well, I'm on my way to Montana." The snow plow driver said, " Well, I'm clearing this parking lot!"

Such a fine parable about the Watchtower Society and their followers.

41

B - I - NGO?

by MutualRespectPlease2 in

hello friends its me, mutualrespectplease.

i messed up my earlier registration, so now i am mrp2.

i have been doing a bunch of research on the different responses i got from you regarding my posts from the beginning of august.

Hellrider

They showed me how to bath one kid who was stuck out in his backyard who was severely disabled and we sprayed insect repellent on him. He loved the spray.

LoooooL.

Omg, ha ha!

44

Your favorite bits of JW folklore

by B_Deserter in

we all hear stories an experiences that happened to a "friend of a friend," and the witnesses are no exception.

they even have their own urban legends.

here are my favorites, and please post yours as well.. 1. watchtower theologists according to one of the old guys i used to pioneer with, there is a super-scary-secret organization of apostates called "watchtower theology.

Hellrider

- also dinosaur bones were all fakes and hoaxes or placed there by demons.

Lol. Never heard that one. I was told Jehovah had made the dinosaurs to "salt the earth". I was thinking, "wouldn`t it have been easier to just make salt"?...didn`t say it out loud, though.