Posts by careful

33

Historian and former JW Jim Penton dies

by slimboyfat in

i don’t know a lot about james penton but i think he deserves a better thread than the one currently on offer.

james penton, who died recently, grew up in a jw family in canada and served as an elder.

unusually for a jw, he studied liberal arts at university and became a history professor.

careful

Thx SBF, for the further info. Sounds pretty dry alright.

33

Historian and former JW Jim Penton dies

by slimboyfat in

i don’t know a lot about james penton but i think he deserves a better thread than the one currently on offer.

james penton, who died recently, grew up in a jw family in canada and served as an elder.

unusually for a jw, he studied liberal arts at university and became a history professor.

careful

Thx SBF, for the info. And iloowy.goowy for the further info on his last book:

https://www.amazon.com/Rutherfords-Coup-Watchtower-Succession-Aftermath/dp/1778143008

https://books.google.com/books/about/Rutherford_s_Coup.html?id=1a6e0AEACAAJ

Evidently saw through to publication by Rud Person. Anyone read it?

Perhaps in public domain?

https://dokumen.pub/qdownload/rutherfords-coup-the-watchtower-succession-crisis-of-1917-and-its-aftermath-9781778143021.html

Any further info would be welcome.

29

WT vs Norway - WT sends letter to the goverment saying they have now changed their practice on DF. Asks for their funding back

by liam in

disfellowshipping is slowly fading into the night.. last efforts to survive.. https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/1gh3ilq/wt_vs_norway_wt_sends_letter_to_the_goverment/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button.

careful

1. The true motive for the org policy change is manifest.

2. Will the Norwegian court see thru the "change," better, ploy?

9

WATCHTOWER IS WATERING DOWN BEDROOM SURVEILLANCE?

by raymond frantz in

https://youtu.be/hwzly3fnpdo?si=0p8zd0_9a-lwtb_9.

the study article 2 from the january 2025 watchtower study edition titled “husbands, honor your wife” represents a marked shift from the earlier, stricter watchtower stance on marital intimacy among jehovah’s witnesses.

this article’s language feels more relaxed, with paragraph 17 and its footnote stating, “the bible does not provide details as to what sexual practices between a husband and a wife should be considered clean or unclean.

careful

This is one of those long list of changes, evidently discussed in GB meetings for years before application (along with allowing beards, females wearing slacks, no ties at meetings, greeting DFed ones), that Tony Morris must have fought against. "Do you really want to turn over to the publishers the ability to decide these things for themselves? They need definite direction here! Jehovah has blessed our restrictive decisions on these matters in the past."

Who knows how many more changes are in the offing? Tune in and watch.

Can you imagine Tony Morris witnessing these changes from his home now, powerless to stop them? The guy must be in torment. Old school thinker.

14

Suspected Washington Kingdom Halls arsonist arrested

by Corney in

as many probably remember, in 2018-2020, multiple kingdom and assembly halls were set on fire in the state of washington, so fbi, atf, local sheriff and arson alarm foundation offered $61,000 in rewards for information leading to arrest of the arsonist.

the attacks (seven arsons and one shooting) included:.

march 19, 2018: two arson attacks - one at a tumwater kingdom hall and the second at a kingdom hall on cain road in olympia.

careful

Thanks, Corney, for the update. Federal prison time: no parole. Does Starrett have any money or real estate for the restitution? Any info from his mouth (not others) on his motives?

45

Ramapo

by Mit123 in

how much is ramapo going to cost?

my daughter in africa meets in a cow shed for her meetings.

i wonder how many khs in africa they could build if they dropped ramapo?.

careful

After looking it over, I see there's no dining hall/cafeteria. Evidently all the meals there will be fixed and eaten in individual Bethelites' rooms? I guess "morning worship" will be done electronically from Warwick?

It looks too like they are counting on the younger crowd to man this facility, complete with a soccer field and gym.

45

Ramapo

by Mit123 in

how much is ramapo going to cost?

my daughter in africa meets in a cow shed for her meetings.

i wonder how many khs in africa they could build if they dropped ramapo?.

careful

SED,

So you must have liked that post on Simon's thread! That pic is actually a gif but it wouldn't load here, only as a gpeg. It's a bizarre gif since the character takes her black hat off and the larger yellow one stays on her head---hummmmm.

Thx for the links.

45

Ramapo

by Mit123 in

how much is ramapo going to cost?

my daughter in africa meets in a cow shed for her meetings.

i wonder how many khs in africa they could build if they dropped ramapo?.

careful

SED, thx for the site plan map. It's too small for me to read well, so I went to the nysedraDOTnyDOTgov website and searched. Lots came up but I couldn't find the drawing you provided. Can you give an exact URL? I'd like to zoom in on the plan and see the detail.

Thanks in advance.

I noted the fitness center and sports fields. Seems sports are more than just OK for Bethelites.

60

1/25 WT: Oral and Anal sex are a go - if she's ok with it

by neat blue dog in

he will not pressure her to engage in sexual acts that make her feel uncomfortable, that are demeaning, or that bother her conscience..... the bible does not provide details as to what sexual practices between a husband and a wife should be considered clean or unclean.

a christian couple must make decisions that reflect their resolve to honor jehovah, to please each other, and to maintain a clean conscience.

generally speaking, a couple would not discuss with others this intimate aspect of their marriage..

careful

Is this some coded message saying that oral is to be tolerated but not anal?

47

Leaked Annual Meeting Video: "Expect Sudden Changes" Jeffrey Jackson

by raymond frantz in

jw
friends

https://youtu.be/uxqqyrrffow?si=wo0jotyvjg76oljk.

well that's sort of related to the next talk on our program brother jeffrey jackson will discuss the theme don't be surprised by sudden changes, brother jeff you have our.

attention well i'm sure we all agree with this fact in recent years there have been a lot of changes even since the last annual meeting there have been many changes some of them perhaps are a little surprising or may seem to be sudden but you know brothers and sisters when we look back on how these changes have come we can see that jehovah has gradually prepared us for each of these adjustments and changes let's review some of the recent changes we've had what changes have we seen with regard to our understand understanding of bible teachings at the 2021 annual meeting we received an adjusted understanding of john 529 it was explained that the resurrection of judgment will not be a judgment of condemnation rather it will be more like a period of probation the unrighteous mentioned at acts 24:15 will have an opportunity to gain everlasting life but their names will not be written wr in the book of life at the time of their resurrection to have their names eventually written in that book these ones will need to respond positively to the great educational work that will take place during the thousand-year reign then at the annual meeting in 2023 we gained enhanced insight into what we do know and what we don't know concerning jehovah's judgments we learned that the door of opportunity for people to take a stand for the kingdom does not shut when the great tribulation starts with the destruction of false religion at that time perhaps some will be like the egyptians in moses day who took a last minute stand and joined the exodus of god's people at the same annual meeting we adjusted our views with regard to jehovah's judgments of those who died in the flood and those who were destroyed in sodom and gomorrah also at that annual meeting an adjustment was made regarding the reporting of our time and activity in our preaching work instead of focusing on reports we try to make good use of every opportunity to witness then we receive the 2024 governing body update number two in that update we saw the need to adjust how we interact with those who have committed serious sins and have been removed from the congregation what other major adjustments have we recently seen in our preaching work the emphasis now is on studing bible studies and making disciples not on distributing literature to that end the focus is on studying meaningful conversations not just on using memorized presentations were you surprised by these adjustments perhaps so but as we look back we see how one adjustment in understanding gradually helped us with the next adjustment isn't it true that gradually jehovah has prepared us and when we look back on it we see how logical this training has been to refine our understanding but events in the world likewise have changed it's true sometimes in the world you have sudden changes for example the pandemic but often times change in the world is gradual isn't it true with regard to the view of morality homosexuality abortion even what's acceptable and not acceptable with regard to conduct all of that has happened gradually in the world and it's not until you look back and see how different the world is today with regard to those matters that we see that there have been a lot of changes but this can be dangerous because as things gradually change we may get used to gradual change and forget that there are some sudden changes about to occur uh let's take our bibles please and if you turn with me to the book of luke chap 21 now this is an example of sudden change in luke chap 21 uh notice there in verse 34 the words of our lord jesus are recorded and he said in verse 34 but pay attention to yourselves that your hearts never become weighed down with oving and heavy drinking and anxieties of life and suddenly suddenly that they be instantly instantly upon you it's interesting to note that jesus had already said that this day he was referring to would occur at a time that we don't think is likely so what lesson do we learn from what jesus said it's a warning isn't it that we can't just sit back and think well things are gradually going to develop we know which way it's going and maybe it's not going to happen yet you know got a little bit more wiggle room there with regard to the schedule but you see that's dangerous thinking now what we're going to do is consider two examples of areas where perhaps we could be a little guilty with regard to that for example our view as with regard to the number of anointed ones remaining on the earth now for many years what did we think we thought well that number would go down and down and down and down now i don't know about you but me i you when that report came out just how many how many partakers and and what were we thinking we probably you maybe we didn't say it but we were thinking you know the number will go down down down down and there'll be just a couple of old guys in a wheelchair who will get their reward well i'm exaggerating but that was sort of the feeling wasn't it but now what have we seen in recent years those numbers have gone up and up and not only that younger brothers have been appointed on the governing body now i know what you're all thinking two new ones how old are they we know you're not googling now but you will be but you see we need to be careful about what we're thinking with regard to the number of anointed ones left on earth you see 19 years ago i was appointed on the governing body even i thought i was too young now they tell me i'm not so young anymore but do we see the point what does the bible actually tell us with regard to this well it doesn't say the number would just dwindle down to just having a few uh older ones left no the great crowd of other sheep will be judged on the basis of how they deal with

careful

It's interesting that they are hanging on to quite a bit of Fred Franz's theology here with Revelation & with the end coming in general, while jettisoning a lot of his other stuff, like his subscribing to some dumb Fundamentalist-oddball theory of Hebrew verbs ("proceeded to ask ..."), "torrent valleys," transliterating Sheol/Hades, as well as his complex type-antitype interpretations.

It makes me wonder just what the criteria are and are not. Maybe Jackson just went thru Freddie's NWT and other WTS theological doctrines and decided whether he liked it or not, similar to Splane's comments in an earlier WTS AM, "We like this idea!"

It seems that little to no real research is going on with GJ and his buddies, beyond looking at how "Christendom's" Bible translators rendered the Hebrew and Greek texts and adopting many of their translations. At least Freddie, oddball that he was, did some sort of research.