Posts by Frogleg

7

I am confused. What do JW's believe about the 144,000 all "dying" before Ar

by booker-t in

i am again confused on a teaching of jw's.

while i was at the donut shop an elderly jw woman came up to me and started to discuss armaggeddon with me.

since this is one of my favorite topics i engaged in dialogue with her.

Frogleg

Assuming that you are asking this because of your faith, then the best I can say is: don't worry. If the 144000 is literal and made up of JWs and all that shyte, great! We all know what's comming. If not, great! Its all going to be a big surprise!

If you are one of the 144000, as defined by the JWs, then I seriously doubt you would be on this board asking the questions you are asking. Otherwise, you are "one of us". In that case, I recommend that you relax. Have some sex, some smoke, maybe a single malt scotch as well. This planet and all of its pleasures was made for you. Wow, what a responsibility, huh? Tell me, what's the difference between the KInks doing "You Really Got Me" and the Blues Brothers doing "Everybody Neeeds Sombody To Love"? Humans are us. Do you want to be a God(dess)? Then, the 144000 are a mildly interesting footnote to the Bible. Do you find yourself seeing the future in terms of "Earthly pleasures"? Do you see 13 channels of shyte on the TV to choose from? Then you've no reason nor motivation to concern yourself with the 144000. They are here to serve us, not the other way round.

11

What are the origins of the book of Job?

by truthseeker in

does anyone have any information on the origins of the book of job?.

i have a few questions.... 1) how old is this book?.

2) did moses write the book?.

Frogleg

Truthseeker,

I will take your question as it is.

The origins of Job are in the the final quiver of a heart that ceases. What can you say to a being who has eternity in his heart but knows that it is unattainable? Most people (even on this site) want to focus no further than the comming weekend. "Working on mysteries without any clues". If your life were to be 100 years would your attitude change? How about 200, 300, 1000? If you take Job as factual, there is a lot of answers and motivation that answer the question as to how mankind got here. If you take Job as a "story" or a fable, what is the difference? In a sense, Job lays the ground rules for all of us: no way out, take what you get. The Romans went thru their existance believing that they were simply playthings of the Gods. All that did was in futility unless the Gods okayed it. Talk about frustration.

If you believe in God, then you have 2 choices: He is good or He is not.

If he is not, you and I are fu*ked. Take what you can get or slit your throat, neither matters. All "sin" is an illusion, whatever pleasures you is all that is good. Causing offsping is the worst of crimes. Who gives a fu*k if your progeney lives on? You're fu*king dead, man. I'm truely sorry you were born because now you have to suffer the ultimate pain: frustration.

If He is, then Job becomes extremely important. He is what's happening. He's why. He is hope. Fuck JC, all that shyte is for the executive level. The working man is Job. Does your wife bitch at you to take out the garbage? Do you know she's feels someone else when she shudders on you? Does she make you turn in circles before a mirror? Then you're Job and Adam and what we dumb ass humans can do to each other.

Job is the world that we've inherited. As sad it may sound, Job is the best that we can hope for.

6

The Rapture of the Nerds

by Gollum in

i recently read kurzweils new book the singularity is near.

this book proposes that by about 2045 the singularity will occur.

what is the singularity, you ask?

Frogleg

The knee that you speak of is non-existant. I'm curious, exactly when did this guy drop off his meds? I don't think its so much your JW background as it is the DNA you have. Just how does this, uh, thinker propose that death is overcome? You can have the highest IQ in history but in 80 or so years you're worm shyte. Ever hear of Goethe? While you are in the midst of your hopeful ecstacy ask yourself this: what would I do with unlimited life? If most people's IQ were to suddenly increase 50%, they would kill themselves over the sudden thoughts that would enter their heads. If you knew, absolutely knew that you would stay in your 19 year old body, never aging, never getting sick, never feeling hunger or thirst, how would your values change? What does the man who has absolutely everything need? Money? Sex? Power? Sorry to burst your bubble, but I've had a certain amount of experience with the mentality that has "all the answers". What diff is this guy from the GB? If you want to peddle religion, fine, but please do it down the street.

23

will the earth be destroyed.

by ajie in

i am a present studying the book what does the bible really teach,and am unable to counter the bit where they say the new earth is people and not the literal earth,ive pointed out scriptures that say it will be burned up e.c.t.but the guy relates it to noahs day when the earth was not literal earth that was destroyed but the wicked people,he says this is the same with the new world to come,it is the rightouse people, at the moment we agree to disagree but does anyone know a good way to counter this argument.though doing a goggle search on the subject it seems to me that christians have all sorts of veiws on the subject which only leaves me more confused.

Frogleg

No. Why destroy a perfectly good planet because of the fuzz growing on it's surface? But that's using logic, which is anathema in a religious conversation.

14

WT "publisher" numbers in the US

by jstalin in

i was looking at the info on jwic.com and realized the following about the us "publishers" numbers:.

between 1994 and 2004 the number of us publishers rose from about 900,000 to about 1,000,000. that's about 11% over those ten years, or about 1% compounded annually (well below the population growth rate).

in addition, between 1994 and 2004 about 392,000 people were baptised.

Frogleg

Metatron,

You have touched upon the most important aspect of the phenomenon: why are people leaving?

45

Anybody here who still has faith in God and belief in the Bible?

by Sheepish in

there seems to be a lot of folks here who are bitter and want nothing to do with organized religion (understandable!

) or the belief in a god who cares about us, and has a "plan".or even anyone who has actually read and studied the bible, and understands what's going on it it.

so many just take stuff out of context looking for "mistakes" and loopholes.

Frogleg

I read a wonderful quote by Thomas Jefferson:

"It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."

Only people like the JWs are concerned with the numbers.

AuldSoul, I'm curious as to the reticence in your answer. Is the "insights" or the reasons for being skittish that you don't want to talk about on this site? After what I have read on this site, what could possibly be the reason for not wanting to share "insights"? Does this site still disfellowship for "bad" thoughts an ideas? Or are we back to the stake burning thing again?

10

Words...from God???????

by Sunspot in

words from god???.

"heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

" matthew 24:35. this is speaking about the word of god, the bible.. can you say this about the myriad of countless numbers of books and various publications published by the wts?.

Frogleg

I'm a sex maniac??? Cool! Hey! Wanna see my hooter?

52

Where did God go??

by fairchild in

it has been over 10 months now since i stopped going to the kingdom hall.

i had imagined how i would really find my way to god now that i was no longer being misled by the wts ( for - profit) publishing company.

i kept reading the bible, because people on jwd had told me how i would see it in a different light.

Frogleg

I din't think he went anywhere. A person who supposedly knew about such things once explained to me that this universe and everything in it is just one of a bazillion universes, environment, xerascapes that God has created. He being a really creative person, and all. Reading about such boggling concepts as membrane reality and string theory and 10 dimensions existing in nature, I suppose what the guy said about God is true. But I see God as more of a dedicated horticulturist. I mean, he works and works so he can stand back and admire his lawn.

"I love my lawn.", he'll say to just about anybody. But then, he doesn't really give much concern over each and every blade of grass, now does he? Like the hundred or so that have recently turned a bit brown. You know, that patch out back where the dog always dumps.

20

What does it mean to Love your neighbor as your self?

by jst2laws in

as one can tell by my screen name i am focused on love as a key ingredient of existence.

i was a jw elder when i first came here and worn out from wt rules and had become acutely focused on the 'two laws'.

matthew 22:39 is one of a few places that the 'two laws' are recorded where we are told to love god with our whole heart, soul and mind and to love your neighbor as yourself.

Frogleg

This is almost an open ended question because there aren't any reference points. Love is such a broad concept with many approaches and possible methods of operation. If your neighbor wants to play his stereo loud when you want it quiet, should you let him? You play your stereo loud when you love yourself, and you don't when you love yourself in quiet. Does loving him as yourself mean that you let yourself suffer for him? But then, that means that you're loving yourself less than him, which dictates that to love him as yourself, you should love yourself more than him? Are we dizzy yet?

For me, I had to put into some sort of perspective, so, in what is probably a oversimplification well beyond being too vague, I pictured this:

Imagine that your father has sent just sent you a million bucks. He tells you that the reason he sent the million bucks is because he loves you and he loves his grandson and he knows that you'll use the dough to benefit everybody, and that would make him happy. But, especially, the first thing he wants you to do is take hisgrandson and a couple of his grandson's friends to Disney World. You are to spend as much time there as is necessary, but they get to saty there until they've ridden all the rides and had all the fun they can have. So, you inform your son, he gets a couple of his buds, you all bundle into the car and off you go to Disney Word (which just happens to be about 30 minutes away). Well, after a short while, you notice your son and one of his frinds having a bit of a tussle in the back seat so you ask about what is going on. Your son tells you that he is sitting in the middle seat and he can't see out and he wants his friend to change places with him so he can see out because sitting in the middle is soooooo boring. Now, you know what lies just ahead of these guys, and you know that about 15 maybe 20 milliseconds after those guys get out of the car and see those gates to Disney World, they won't remember a thing about the trip. You could have probably sewn you son up in a mattress sack for the trip and he wouldn't remember a thing once his feet touched the asphalt and he catches that first glimpse of Mickey waving at him. So you say to your son, "Hey, don't worry about it, Disney World is 20 minutes away."

What you want your son to do is love his neighbor as himself.

9

Parable of the Talents

by Frogleg in

although it may seem as if a horse is being beaten to death here, i have a question in reference to the "parable of the talents".

matt 25:14 is where it starts.

this particular story is often used by the borg to justify their insistence on field service, and each time i've read it and each time it was read to me, i always came away unsure as to the accuracy of the borg's interpretation.

Frogleg

Leolaia, your research is astounding and you logic quite precise. Doubtless, you have nailed the issues. However, if I might put out one small idea. If the master is JC or BigJ, then the invitation to the kingdom is automatically given to everyone, and whether the talent is increased or not should make no difference. As is constantly remonstrated on this site, it's not the amount of disciple making activity that proves the lie of the Borg, but the singularity of its importance and the resultant view of life and living itself. The inequality of the amount of increase in talents made no difference to the boss, it was only whether it was used or not that was important to him. What seems to anger the boss is not that the slave didn't do anything, but that the slave didn't do anything out of fear of him. In other words, the slave knew the master was able to reap anywhere he chose, at any time he wanted to; and, possibly, that is why the slave feared losing the talent he was intrusted with more than he feared not increasing the bosses wealth. God doesn't need us, he can just make more. Since the talent, to me, represents the individual and his own personal "entrustment" of a life, the fact is, the slave did absolutely nothing with his life for fear of losing it. All of the talent, ability, power, strength, intellect, and so on that the slave had been given were completely wasted because he feared the master, and feared losing his life. The slave not only misunderstood the master's wishes, but misunderstood the world around him as well. In other words, JC was saying, ".. and don't let me come back and find you cowering in your basements, afraid to go outside because you fear me. Your life is precious, your talent is important. The day of your death is more important than the day of your birth, so, when I get back, they better not be equal." What do you suppose JC meant about just putting the dough in the bank and getting interest? Not much disciple making or kingdom invitation there? But he says even that would have been acceptable. Ever notice how the tried and true Borg just sort of turn their brains off? Don't think for themselves, won't think for themselves (or anyone else) because why? They are terrified. And so they sit, buried in the dirt.

And, I geuss, what all of this comes down to is the scorecard that I sort of kept in my head over this. Item 1, the "don't anticipate" directive. The Borg definitely gets an 'F' on this one. Item 2, don't get distracted, stay focused. The Borg gets a 'C-' on this, because althought they seem to stay focused, their inordinant failure of step one has caused the subsequent unfocusing (and downright disbelief) of so many others. And finally, item 3, a resounding 'F', because if you ever notice the whining and moaning from the Borg about why a person should or should not do certain things, the overwhelming reason is because of what "might" happen, or what a person "might be exposed to". Always a movement stopping, fear based "maybe". And to everything given to them, they try to make themselves dead, because they fear the master may kill them if they don't. Like, what would be the difference?

Oh yes, one more thing, please note that my above interpretation does NOT preclude field service (or disciple making, if you wish) to any extent whatsoever. If disciple making is something an individual grows by, then by all means, power to him. But, it is NOT THE ONLY MEANS to increase a person's value.