Posts by comment

6

WT-UN: The Bottom Line

by comment in

jw
friends

when the watchtower society applied to become a un ngo, they had to agree to support the un.. it *doesn't matter* what their purpose in applying was.

it could have been to further the preaching work, to be more like all the other religions, or to get lloyd barry's wife off his back because she'd been bugging him for weeks about how much fun it would be to do something with the un.

it doesn't matter.. they had to agree to support the un.

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Randy,

I would agree with that, at least in terms of publicizing UN activities that would generally be considered "positive." That is, of course, undercut by the other statements over the last 10 years about the scarlet-colored wild beast and the UN's inability to accomplish its goals.

But I think the fact that they HAD TO AGREE TO SUPPORT THE UN is the single most powerful fact that's emerged from this. Nobody can argue with it.

The UN says: "Yes, they had to agree to support us, or we wouldn't have made them a UN NGO."

The Watchtower Society says: "Hmm, er, well, no, we really didn't agree to do that quite in the sense that..."

The UN says: "Here's your signature on the dotted line. You read the terms and conditions."

No matter how anyone evaluates the evidence of the 10 following years, the Watchtower Society indisputably had to make that initial commitment. They HAD TO AGREE TO SUPPORT THE UN. And we know how the UN has always been condemned in Watchtower publications.

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6

WT-UN: The Bottom Line

by comment in

jw
friends

when the watchtower society applied to become a un ngo, they had to agree to support the un.. it *doesn't matter* what their purpose in applying was.

it could have been to further the preaching work, to be more like all the other religions, or to get lloyd barry's wife off his back because she'd been bugging him for weeks about how much fun it would be to do something with the un.

it doesn't matter.. they had to agree to support the un.

comment

When the Watchtower Society applied to become a UN NGO, they HAD TO AGREE TO SUPPORT THE UN.

It *doesn't matter* what their purpose in applying was. It could have been to further the preaching work, to be more like all the other religions, or to get Lloyd Barry's wife off his back because she'd been bugging him for weeks about how much fun it would be to do something with the UN. It doesn't matter.

They HAD TO AGREE TO SUPPORT THE UN. The scarlet-colored wild beast with the harlot on its back. The disgusting thing.

So either:

1) They have supported the UN and are part of the harlot, which means they lied to the brothers.

2) They lied to the UN, which means they will have to start supporting it now, get kicked out, or resign their NGO status.

And no matter what happens now, they were involved in spiritual "loose conduct" for ten years. Weren't they concerned about brothers and interested ones who might be stumbled if they learned about the Society's questionable choice of worldly association? (1 Corinthians 15:33)

Just remember that when they joined:

They HAD TO AGREE TO SUPPORT THE UN.

comment

1

Our Great Freeness of Speech

by comment in

jw
friends

for a non-witness, in particular, "our great freeness of speech" has to be one of the most misleading phrases in the witness lexicon.. it's often asserted from the platform that jehovah's witnesses enjoy great freedom among themselves, and scriptures like 1 timothy 3:13 are cited to corroborate this: "for the men who minister in a fine manner are acquiring for themselves a fine standing and great freeness of speech in the faith in connection with christ jesus.".

influenced by such other phrases like "conscience matter" and "personal decision," a non-witness may be led to believe: "wow, they get to make up their own minds about a lot of things!

that sure is different from all these other authoritarian religions.".

comment

For a non-Witness, in particular, "our great freeness of speech" has to be one of the most misleading phrases in the Witness lexicon.

It's often asserted from the platform that Jehovah's Witnesses enjoy great freedom among themselves, and scriptures like 1 Timothy 3:13 are cited to corroborate this: "For the men who minister in a fine manner are acquiring for themselves a fine standing and GREAT FREENESS OF SPEECH in the faith in connection with Christ Jesus."

Influenced by such other phrases like "conscience matter" and "personal decision," a non-Witness may be led to believe: "Wow, they get to make up their own minds about a lot of things! That sure is different from all these other authoritarian religions."

What the non-Witness doesn't understand is that "freeness" and "freedom" don't actually mean getting to do or say what you personally choose.

Instead, it's interpreted in the context of John 8:32, 34, where Jesus said, "You will know the truth and the truth will set you free," and "Every doer of sin is a slave of sin."

In other words, you're considered "free" in the sense that you are no longer marked for eternal death because you can obtain God's forgiveness for the sins you commit daily.

Or, you have "freeness of speech" because by living strictly according to Bible standards, nobody you meet in field service can say: "Hey, that guy doesn't practice what he preaches."

So it's a narrow theological interpretation that basically equates to "Follow our rules so that God won't kill you and so that you can go out in service without feeling like a hypocrite in the interim."

That's your "freeness of speech" right there.

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18

The End of History, Not Armageddon

by metatron in

jw
friends

to the average witness, any discord in the world inspires thoughts.

that armageddon is near.

yet, there is a better explanation than.

comment

teirce,

My comments were not about 9/11. I presume you were being sarcastic.

In that instance, you're dealing with religious fanatics, not revolutionaries in search of social change.

To take that one step further, though, it's to everyone's benefit to avoid fostering social conditions in which religious fanaticism can thrive, anywhere in the world. Such as intense poverty.

comment

18

The End of History, Not Armageddon

by metatron in

jw
friends

to the average witness, any discord in the world inspires thoughts.

that armageddon is near.

yet, there is a better explanation than.

comment

My point is simply that what happens in North America and Western Europe does not constitute the "order of the day" for the entire world, either in terms of a social security net or the benefits advances in medicine.

As for an "organized coherent opposition to the dominance of Western culture," it's already emerging within our own status quo. What happened in Seattle in 1999 and related opposition to the policies of the WTO, the IMF and the like is not going to vanish overnight. There will continue to be people in Western society who see the injustice of us sipping Starbucks and wearing Nikes at the expense of the Third World--and, less altruistically, others who see that if we want to maintain at least our core creature comforts in the future, we would do better not to keep on rubbing those comforts in the face of the rest of the world and thereby spawning religiously or politically motivated destructive radical movements.

Personally, I don't expect multinational corporations to wake up to that reality very quickly. (Why change anything when profits are being made, after all?) Which increases the likelihood of a new French or Russian Revolution taking place somewhere.

(But not Armageddon.)

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3

Grow More--As the Nazirites Did

by comment in

jw
friends

song number 128. grow more--as the nazirites did.

nazirites--o can we be like them?.

can we look like them today?.

comment

Englishman,

Are you suggesting that the songbook should be polluted with elements of this commercialistic system of things under Satan's control???

That would certainly be a hairy situation!

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18

The End of History, Not Armageddon

by metatron in

jw
friends

to the average witness, any discord in the world inspires thoughts.

that armageddon is near.

yet, there is a better explanation than.

comment

I think such a view is too optimistic. It presumes The Triumph of Capitalism in more than one sense. Socialist philosophies will continue to present themselves in one form or another in most governments around the world--even if not in the United States. And other philosophies dissenting against the inequities imposed by globalization in its current form will also be a force to be reckoned with. Just because things are comfortable in North America and Western Europe doesn't mean we are on the threshold of the End of History. That was an outlook better suited to 1991 than 2001.

comment

5

A factual summary of the WT-UN issue

by comment in

jw
friends

what i've written here is a straightforward, easy-to-digest, basic factual summary of the issue.

feel free to send it to anyone you like or post it anywhere.. .

an ngo is a non-governmental organization.. according to the definition used by the united nations (un), ngos operate on a non-profit basis, perform humanitarian work and advocate various causes with governments.. more than 1,500 ngos have voluntarily applied to cooperate with the department of public information (dpi) of the un.. in order for the un to accept an application, an ngo must agree to build support for the un and to disseminate information about it to their members.. the watchtower society voluntarily applied to cooperate with the dpi of the un in 1991. the application was successful.. the contact person listed on the application was lloyd barry, a member of the governing body of jehovah's witnesses.. for many years, the watchtower society has identified the un as the "scarlet-colored wild beast" and "the disgusting thing" of bible prophecy.. the watchtower society has repeatedly stated that the un blasphemes by setting itself up as mankind's best hope for world peace rather than promoting god's kingdom.. the watchtower society has repeatedly condemned religions that cooperate with the un, identifying them as "babylon the great, the mother of the harlots and the disgusting things of the earth.".

comment

db,

I like yours as well, particularly the 1950 and 1979 references to put the whole thing in context.

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3

Grow More--As the Nazirites Did

by comment in

jw
friends

song number 128. grow more--as the nazirites did.

nazirites--o can we be like them?.

can we look like them today?.

comment

Song Number 128

GROW MORE--AS THE NAZIRITES DID

Nazirites--O can we be like them?
Can we look like them today?
They had really lo-o-ong hair
In a unique, special way.
Analyze! Let's give it attention.
Let's ignore the apostle Paul.
Can we all sport spir'tual mullets
Before we end up bald?

Nazirites--Their lifestyle was simple.
Self-denial was their role.
They would never visit the barber.
Could we too have such a goal?
Though accepting certain restrictions,
They were hipper than hippies now.
All, not just our Christian sisters,
Should have the hair part down.

Nazirites--They truly were different.
Why, they had a crowning sign.
Nowadays it's known as dandruff;
Back then nobody would mind.
So today, as God's fellow workers
Dry and itchy our scalps we'll make.
May Jehovah bless our efforts,
Setting our scalps aflake.

Nazirites--They set an example.
Care they took with lengthiness.
Truly hirsute, let us be like them;
Their hair our God e'er did bless.
Cut your costs and trust in Jehovah:
Let your lovely locks remain.
If we manage not to wig out,
Deep-rooted joy we'll gain.

7

A Part of the World

by comment in

jw
friends

brothers and sisters, let's rise now and join in the singing of song number 24, "a part of the world.

" it's loosely based on john 17:16.. a part of the world.

although god once set us apart,.

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Seeker,

Uplifting sentiments indeed! I like the "circus hoops."

At this rate, we'll soon have the whole songbook rewritten! We're 1/112.5th of the way already. ;)

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