It's a good point that the 'FDS' are wrong to demand the same obedience as Christ, but you've created a bit of a false dichotomy. It's not a question of hating Jesus or the FDS because the JW's believe that the FDS are ambassadors substituting for Christ, and that they should submit themselves to these ones 'taking the lead among them' as representatives of Christ. So they see submission and obedience to the nebulous 'faithful and discreet slave' class as tantamount to obedience to Christ.
yaddayadda
JoinedPosts by yaddayadda
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16
JW's - How many Masters are you serving?
by Honesty indo jw's agree with romans 6:16 that if one obeys someone they are slaves of the one they are obeying?.
romans 6:16 says, "do you not know that if you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of that one you obey either of sin leading to death or of obedience leading to righteousness?
the watchtower society's daily text for monday december 18, 2006 says, "similarly, we will be blessed if we recognize and obey the prophet greater than moses, jesus, as well as "the faithful and discreet slave" appointed by him.".
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Did anyone watch CNN's "After Jesus"?
by Will Power init was on tonight - 2 hrs long, pretty good overview, for having to cover so much.
from a jw's point of view, (which i'm not), i'd say they got some of it right, but also, alot wrong.
if anyone did see it - at which point do you think most would've turned it off?
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yaddayadda
What was it about?
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False Prophets - Yes or No?
by Clam inno: "never in these instances, however, did they presume or originate predictions in the name of jehovah.
never did they say these are the words of jehovah.
" (aw 3/22/93).
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yaddayadda
There are different types of 'prophets'. They admit to being prophets in the sense of merely being spokespersons to God, but they deny being prophets in the sense of receiving and imparting new things directly from God. They think only the latter is 'inspired'. However, the quotes you show prove that denial is false.
Yes, the 'faithful and discreet slave' do indeed claim to impart new insights and flashes of revelatory understandings that they alone have received from the heavens. They have formulated creeds and peculiar predictions about the future that are not found in scripture. The former teaching that the creator promised that the generation of 1914 would not pass away before the end came is but one example.
In fact, only Jehovah's Witnesses can be modern-day 'false' prophets according to the definition of Deuteronomy 18 for the simple reason that only they claim to speak in Jehovah's name. No other religion prophesies specifically in the name of 'Jehovah' like the Watchtower Society does. -
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Watchtower teaches how to fade
by JH inwhen i stopped going to meetings, i faded away slowly.
we always tend to think that we are the ones who faded away and that the jw's in general wanted us to stay.. but if you think about it, the elders, ms, and every good jw who still attend meetings, are also the ones fading.
the only difference is that they are fading the people who left.
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yaddayadda
Yep, shows that JW 'love' is totally conditional on meeting attendance and going door-knocking on a saturday morning.
Stop those things and they will forget you quicker than you can say lickety-split.
Gives the lie to the claim that they have 'love among themselves' like no other religion has. -
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How do you view the Bible?
by Fisherman ini think that the bible gives hope and comfort.
i also think that the bible is a good book without me saying too much.
but is it a product of god?
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yaddayadda
From my own research (ongoing), it seems clear that the New Testament has come down to us nearly 100% as it was written. But what about the oral tradition before anything was written? Did it all change during the oral period, like a game of chinese whispers? There is more research coming out now that is showing the role of orality/aurality in the Jesus tradition supports, not undermines, the realiability of the gospel materials (eg, James D G Dunn's "A New Perspective on Jesus - what the Quest for the Historical Jesus Missed" - and Richard Bauckham's new book "Jesus and the Eyewitnesses - The Gospels as Eyewitness Testimony", which I'm working through now). The historical Jesus and the Jesus of faith are really the same thing, you cannot separate them. There is no missing 'historical Jesus' behind the gospels. What you read is what they saw and heard.
The issue is whether you choose to believe what it says or not; whether you choose scepticism or faith. Scepticism about the supernatural is understandable, but scepticism is often the easy way out. I've never personally experienced the supernatural but millions of people claim to have had very real supernatural experiences and I'm not so arrogant to brush aside all that anecdotal evidence.
Whether one believes in miracles and the resurrection of Jesus depends to a large degree on whether you believe in God or not, a God of revelation or not. I most certainly believe in God, so I have no problem with the idea that God has communicated with mankind and had those revelations transmitted through writing. Yes, that's somewhat circular logic I know.
It all comes down to faith. It's very hard to have faith the 'post-modern' world where distrust, cynicism, scepticism, materalism, are the accepted norm. But I think there is good reason to have faith; there is a platform of evidence from various disciplines: historical, archaelogical, scientific, that on the balance means Christianity can be considered a viable worldview. -
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Comments You Will Not Hear at the 12-17-06 WT Study (Sacred Gatherings)
by blondie in: the special assembly day, the two-day circuit assembly, and the three- or four-day district convention.
q9) how can we show our respect for sacred gatherings by our dress and behavior?.
- how can children show that they respect the sacred nature of our meetings?.
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yaddayadda
When I was a dub I was always embarrassed that they put this boring, organisational stuff in the Watchtower yet we are expected to place the issues with the public. Why the feck would the public be interested in reading this tripe that is only designed for loyal JW's? It seemed fraudulent to me, to tout the Watchtower as a magazine for the general public, yet when the householders goes away and flicks through it they see a whole lot of drivel such as this article. If I was a householder buying this Watchtower I would never buy one ever again. The boffins at Brooklyn are so clueless.
Why don't they put this crap in The Kingdom Ministry and save it for service meeting. -
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One True Religion?
by blondie ininteresting topic from beliefnet.
12/14/2006 11:54 pm .
taking the position that jesus christ is, in fact, the son of god who paid the price for our sins, i dont believe our affiliation with any christian religion "gives a person an 'an edge'" in their approval by god and christ.
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yaddayadda
I still struggle with the idea that God could be working through individuals scattered in numerous denominations. The case for this is weak scripturally, just as many on here can argue that the case that God has only ever worked through one 'organisation' is equally weak.
But when I went to some other churches after leaving the organisation, it struck me how totally insular the JW view is. Here I was with other 'Christians' who seemed more kind, decent, and 'Christian' than any self-satisfied JW I'd ever met. These were REAL people that loved God and appeared to have some connection with Jesus that I had never experienced before. They weren't all raving nutters speaking in tongues and rolling around the floor; just good, clean people who love Jesus. Although I am still bothered at their services by their obvious confusion about who God is (I remain a firm non-trinitarian), I can see that they really are genuine Christian people serving God the best way they know how. Surely Jesus still feels love for these people, despite their having some false beliefs.
Perhaps it is all about relationship and not religion after all. It's all about love not doctrine. I'm still working my way through it.... -
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Dramatic Increase in Publishers and Field Service Reports expected!!
by OUTLAW inas you may already have heard,the wbt$ is putting members of the 144,000 to good use after death..they will be buryed 1ft above ground and used for speed bumps at kingdom halls around the world..the remainder will be sent to the taxidermist for stuffing.look for meeting attendance to go way up..they can also be propt up at street corners for field service in any weather.look for field service reports to increase dramaticly..if all go`s well,all dead jehovah`s witness`s will be sent to the wbt$ owned taxidermy "stuff-a dub"..in the future,jehovah`s witness`s will no longer retire,they will be recycled...outlaw
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yaddayadda
this is the dumbest thread I've read in a while.
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Do you have a hope for the future???
by winnie injust wondering, all who have left, are leaving, or are still 'in' and no longer believe.. jw's have the hope of living forever...paradise...etc.. what is your hope for the future?.
do you still think there is the chance of living forever...paradise...etc..
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yaddayadda
I still believe the JW's have got many things right from the Bible. I still believe in God, Jesus, the bible, etc, so I still have the hope of living forever. I just have no faith in the Watchtower Society or the organisation as a whole. It is about as much the true religion as the Pharisees were when Jesus walked the earth. The Pharisees didn't believe the trinity, an immortal soul, hell, etc.
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TIME Magazine Articles on Jehovah's Witnesses
by Wild_Thing inhas anyone ever posted about the tons of time magazine articles about the jws?
time has been around forever and has been a 'witness' (pardon the pun) to much of their history .. clear back to the 1930s.
go to the time website and search for yourself!
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yaddayadda
Yes, TIME hasn't been the best friend to the organisation. The more TIME passes, the more stupid they are.