Posts by 2112

11

This is very interesting. Going through the post the Elsewhere provided (thanks) I was not suprised that there were few scriptures quoted. I know there were a few, but none that directly addressed sex within marrage. Yes they say it all applies but in every case it is too vague to make that statement. I did notice this-

"wisely avoid practices that approach, or could easily lead one to fall into, unnatural forms of copulation." Ok let me follow this through, If I was dating a girl and we held hands, that could lead to hugging, then kissing, then touching etc. Would not the same apply within a marrage. If we hug, then kiss would we then have to jump into missionay position before we went too far? What is the axact line we can not cross. I'm not trying to be graphic here but is above the navel ok or is it above the neck, can I even look down there? They even said if homosexuals did it first we can't do it. Ok how do we know homosexuals did it first. When did the first homosexuals come to be, what if Adam and Eve did if first would it then be ok?

They keep saying it is gross and un-natural, and that it is unloving. If I want it and my wife wants it and we don't tell others what we dop in our bed. And if we both feel closer to eachother when we do it, how is that gross, un-natural and unloving? I love how the often ferer to 1 orr. to show how evil oral sex within a marrage is when it talks about a man having sex w/his fathers wife.

In 1978 they seemed to lighten up and even admited to not having scriptural support for their privious stance. But the that was just a flicker of the light swtich as in '81 the scriptural support came back. Maybe I will call and ask, not that I give a rats butt, however my wife does and we fight about their stupid rules a lot.

11

Maybe I missed it

by 2112 in

2112

Oops!

Anyway, is oral sex between married people still a crime or not. My JW wife still refers to the 1985 article about marrage, that said it is.

What's the latest?

11

Maybe I missed it

by 2112 in

2112

9

This just occurred to me;

by 2112 in

we all know that the nwt is a truly lousy version if the bible.

when they started using the bible why did they not add their own writings.

i know they use the wt and other books but i mean, in the lines like the mormans did.

2112

We all know that the NWT is a truly lousy version if the Bible. When they started using the Bible why did they not add their own writings. I know they use the WT and other books but I mean, in the lines like the Mormans did. I just figured they want to "look" Christian.

Then I started to think about their claim that there have always been anointed witnesses since Jesus. Also their claim that all other Christian religons are of the devil. So I ask "Who compiled the differant writings into the Bible and said that there were the truly inspired writings?" Was it not the Catholic Church? If that is the case the that must mean that the Catholic church were the first anointed witnesses. But that can't be because they are from the devil. I mean after all they celabrate Christmas, Birthdays, Easter, they use the cross, you know all the things that the Bible Students were doing in 1918 when Jesus viewed all religions and chose the Bible Students as the true religon.

But really, if a false religion compiled the Bible why would the "true" religon use it and say that it is inspierd? If the reason is that those compiling the Bible had Gods spirit then that means that their is no way for anyone to be in a "one true religon". Because any religon that has Gods spirit, especially in something as important as communicating his eternal word to mankind, would have to be approved by him. Therefore we could not be punished for aligning with said religon as it was through them that God gave us his word.

I hope I am explaining my thoughts clearly. Please let me know if I'm totaly messed up in my line of reasoning. Thanks

37

JUST HOW GULLIBLE ARE YOU? DO YOU LIKE IT THAT WAY?

by Terry in

fool me once; shame on you.... fool me twice; shame on me.. we've all heard that one before.

it implies that being fooled is everybody's susceptibility until more facts are presented which enable more critical thinking.. critical thinking is something you aren't born with.

it takes lots of practice.. and anything humans want to learn requires many tries.

2112

In the end at all comes down to personal resopnsability. Yes we are all at time gullible and we can and probably have been fooled at one time or another. But what about those people that we know who have seen the real truth about the WT, yet they choose to ignore the evidence. They refuse to take the personal responcability to stand up for what they know is right. They all have their reasons what ever they may be. I think that they are counting on the fact that they will be able to stand before the judgment seat of Christ and be able to say "Ijust did what the elders told me" This can be said for any religion,cult, group, or whatever. But how many threads do we read here and you can just feel the frustration of those posting the the dubs just refuse to even look at evidence. Or when shown the evidence, they say "nope, not going to believe it" When we know some one who can say that they don't believe every WT teaching but still say it's from God, they have to have one three mindsets. First would be that they are totaly stupid people- there may be a few, but I would not like say such. Second, they would have to be pathological liers-which many seen to be. Third, and this one is scarry, they would have to be a sociopath. I know that may seen harsh but the profile fits. Remember I am not saying all dubs fall into one of these three groups just those who see the lies and yet still support the WT as God org. and never change.

I again admit that I was there at one time so I'm not trying to sound accusatory. I know many here don't subcsribe to the whole God thing, and that is ok. At least you are being honest with yourself and others.

4

Is this True!!! / listin to this link

by skyman in

.

this is a recorded radio presentation here is the link please listin http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyid=5052156 then click on

2112

I guess it is true to the guy who wrote the book.

I am not sure, as it is all new to me.

20

Got any good questions about Blood issue?

by whyizit in

jw
friends

a dialogue has opened up between me and a jw friend about their stance on blood.

just wondered if any of you were ever asked a question that made you think twice, or if you have any questions that you think would be good to ask?

(i don't want to offend this person.

2112

I have had them say to me that "if you Dr. said abstain from beer would you take it like a transfusion?" which is really silly. But what I try and show them is that, if someone was to take beer that way, the body would use it as food. But if you were to take blood that way it would continue the same function it was made for, to carry oxygen through the body. The body would not use it for food.

All the OT restrictions were diatary, as blood is not digestible.

If it were possible I would love to see the GB medical records each time a medical restriction was lifted to see just who on the GB needed a transplant or a blood fraction. I believe that would be very telling. I ask did the WT sacrofice a GB member on the alter of no blood?

58

The Unkindest Cut: Hateful Words from JWs that Show Their True Colours

by Scully in

jw
friends

i decided to start this topic when ozziepost shared the experience of a bethel representative telling him and mrs. ozzie "and don't forget, we've got your children!

it's important for us to hear these experiences and to share them with each other.

it helps us tear down the mistaken beliefs that the incidents that happen to us are not isolated ones, but are in fact par for the course when one parts ways with the jws and wts.

2112

One of the many hurtful things I have heard was not said to my but between two elders about my father. My father is a hard core dub. and an elder and at the tims the cong. secrtary. They have had the book study in our house since before my parents were even babtized. (They say my parents house and wanted it.) In the early 90's my mother was dying of cancer. She had fought it for years but it was slowly taking it's toll. Anyway my father, being the faithful witness elder, really did not give my mother the support she needed. I was resently married and we lived with them to help take care of my mom. Anyway my dad would spend 20hr or more a week in service, attend all meetings, committee mtgs., etc. And people would streem in and out of the houst from dawn to dusk, and this would all take a toll on my mom. But dad did not slow down, his reasoning was "I have to be strong for the congragation". Finally mom died and while in the back of the KH after her memorial svc. the PO said to another elder "Finally, that's over, now ******* can serve Jehovah like he should". To which the other elder (Who ny dad conciders one of his best friends), replies "Yea, it sure took long enough" .

When I told my wife and father about this exchange they both said I must be making it up. My best friend was there and he confirmed it so my dad called the PO and asked him about it 9On speaker phone). At first he tried to deny it but my best friend, not a dub called him on it and so he did admit saying it but then tried to explein it away. I pointed out that he did not have a book study at his house, he did not put in the hours of service like my dad and he wasn't caring for a sick wife, and trying to entertain the cong. so why would he say that. He did not answer, but my dad then started to agree with him that I was only trying to cause trouble.

Go figure. At first I'm a lier and then when I'm proven right I'm a trouble maker for telling the truth.

37

Scriptures to make a JW think?

by AlmostAtheist in

jw
friends

i'm looking for scriptures that you believe a doubting jw would read that would cause them to think a bit.

i have four in mind now: .

'do not go beyond the things that are written.

2112

Luke24 v.36-43

Here Jesus appears to his disciples, and they think he is a spirit (Just what the WT believes). So to "prove" the WT correct, Jesus tells them he is not a spirit, he tells them to touch him and then he eats with thim. All of these things he does with a fleshly body to "prove" that he was raised as a spirit.

This scripture can be further hammered home in that, at one point Jesus says "It is I", "Touch me, and see, a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have"

The WT says he produced bodies just to convince his followers he was resurrected but not with his original body. And they love to "prove this by quoting "Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom." Well if the WT is correct then Jesus was a liar and a deciever. After all he said it was his body, he said he was not a spirit. Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom, but flesh and bone may.

68

Jesus had a Twin Proof!!!

by skyman in

judas thomas is known to the world as jesus brother.

most all bible scholars have no problem with this, what is of interest to me is a matter of controversy the translation of didymos used before his name in the greek manuscripts didymos literally translates into english as twin.

if you take the bible as the true gospel of gods hand then jesus had a twin brother.

2112

I don't want to sound like I'm arguing Skyman, but I want to point out a few things. At one point you say the Bible is in-accurate yet you started the thread by using the Bible. You also keep telling us to open our minds and we will see the truth in this. You even said something to the effect that we are like the witness for not accepting something new. Well, it seems to me that you are acting like the GB by saying you have the truth and it is up to the rest of us to accept it.

You bring up a great subject and it is very intersting, but please, even if you are 100% correct, don't try and force it on anyone. Just show the info, debate it, but remember nobody has all the answers. We could all be wrong. After all all of us who were in the WT at one time believed and were convinced we had all the answers. And did not mant of us say of those that would not believe our teachings that they need to open their minds?

Cool subject though.