Gods Word added to water validates. But Baptism in it's deepest meaning is validated in Christs death and ressurection. Baptism is God's promise and is not dependent on amount of water used but on water and God's Word presence!
Shazard
JoinedPosts by Shazard
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7
Invalidating your baptism
by What-A-Coincidence inwhat actually validates your baptism?.
the water inmersion or saying yes to the trick questions?.
if b then you can say you never said yes...they would need to prove it with 2 witnesses which they will never come up with thus yout baptsim can be void and null?.
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You would think that the BETHELITES as a whole would be INFORMED of
by What-A-Coincidence inyou would think that the bethelites as a whole would be informed about of the following...
scandal?...nope
pedophiles?...nill
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Shazard
Sorry about question... I know all the issues except Mexico-Malawi. What is this? I am not JW and never was, so for me it is ok to not know something about JW. Can you explain in 3 words?
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The last supper: "is" versus "means"
by jstalin ini was raised catholic, so i was a bit surprised when i attended the memorial last year with my jw friend and the speaker was recounting the last supper.
he quoted mark 14:22 and as they continued eating, he took a loaf, said a blessing, broke it and gave it to them, and said: take it, this means my body.
23 and taking a cup, he offered thanks and gave it to them, and they all drank out of it.
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Shazard
Who needs bible if there is WT? Who needs correct translation if they have their very good translation? :)
But issue is that they just don't believe what Bible says, so they make it say what they believe. -
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"It has messed me up so badly."
by scout575 in"christianity has made my life a living hell.
it has messed me up so badly, and i haven't been able to see it until now.
i look at all of my family and i really do pity them.
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Shazard
Sounds like... "chemistry has messed me so badly in school so I don't believe anymore in atoms and chemical reactions as I believe there are processes higher and more complex then chemistry books describe and stupid Mendeleyev invents"
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How does mainstream Christianity explain "Other Sheep"?
by Alana ini'm preparing for a potential discussion with my mom and, especially if it occurs near this memorial time, the discussion may contain the "other sheep" and how they are different and shouldn't partake of the emblems, etc.
i know that i probably have this information researched already, but since my last move i can't find some my research materials.
i could also ask the pastor of the church i attend, but that involves too much discussion as to what the jw's believe, etc.
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Shazard
I see nobody is directing author to Ephes 2:11- This is exactly what Jesus was talking about. Paul explains it more precisely!
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Are there any funny stories in the bible?
by ballistic in.
i posted on a thread earlier that i'm sure jesus had a sense of humour.. i clicked submit post.. then i thought, yeah i'm sure he did but he didn't tell any jokes did he?
in fact i can't think of anything funny in the whole bible.. here's your chance to post a bible story that gets you roaring with laughter...
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Shazard
Sense of humor of God mostly appears as irony or sarcasm in bible. Typical example is Elia fight with priests of Baal... Elias words are "softened" in the translations. Also there were some other similar places, but I can't remember right now.
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Do you honestly think the Witness religion will end?
by free2beme ini know that people here make comments about the religion having problems and growth not being anything other then children born into the faith and third world countries.
i even see them make comments about, "how much longer can this go on?
" yet honestly, do you really think the witness religion will end in our life time?
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Shazard
When you see in Church history, then different false teachings last about 2-5 centuries. I don't think that JW are big exception. Ofcourse there are several major directions in false teachings - that is arianism (JW today), gnosticism (New Age) etc. These fallacies will allways be present in one or another way. Ofcourse I am speaking about "chrsitianity based" religions. And survives only those which are close to central message of Gospel. If you go away from gospel, faster you disapear into history.
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"Shouldn't they have known better?"
by scout575 in"over the years i have come to know and know of many ex-christians, most of whom were well-churched, their numbers including former ministers, apologists, missionaries, theologians etc.
why should such people leave christianity?
these people are the best versed in christianity and yet leave despite so much personal and professional investment in their religion, enjoyment of their time as believing christians and social pressures to stay.
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Shazard
scout, I sayed about those which I know! And I know not too much christians who have turned away. And actually to say for sure that they have turned away you have to look what is happening at the very end of their lives. Actually I guess each christian has "empty" period in their lives, sometimes people return sometime no. Why exactly... there is no common answer for each case.
Sometimes people devote themselves to Pastors, Churches (as organization), people to something what is RESULT of Christianity, not it's source. What is happening really, who can tell...??? I just can tell my own... I feel that I can loose everything, but if I have Christ, I don't loose anything. But if I will lose Christ, I will lose everything else. Without him the life looses meaning. With him each breath becomes meaningfull for me. And it is not about rituals, churches, pastors, apologetic, good works or whatever... it is all about realizing that God himself died for me. He was not forced to do so, it was his own choice, and only explanation to this is that He loves me. May be I don't love him, but I can't denie that he loves me. And this love keeps me ticking in this world. I wish that each one could realize that God does not requires from us anything as only permission to be our Father and our expressed will to be His children, everything else he has done for us and has given life which humanity have thrown away. -
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"Shouldn't they have known better?"
by scout575 in"over the years i have come to know and know of many ex-christians, most of whom were well-churched, their numbers including former ministers, apologists, missionaries, theologians etc.
why should such people leave christianity?
these people are the best versed in christianity and yet leave despite so much personal and professional investment in their religion, enjoyment of their time as believing christians and social pressures to stay.
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Shazard
I agree... there is no common reason. And in theology this is mistery, how one can turn away. But... you never know what is happening with them on the frontier of their lives at the very end. Those which I have known, they turned away coz they at some point loosed the focus on person of Christ. If you loose the Son in Christianity, you loose faith no matter how good theologican you are. Ecumenical views sometimes goes too far away, and they loose Christ in this mess... Loosing focus on Christ is dangerous. Christianity is nothing more as personal relationship with Christ. All ethics, politics etc. around christianity, all that is only working if you have Christ, if you don't you loose the meaning of it!
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JW interpretation of bible
by osmosis insay, for example, you ask a jw about the book of genesis, and about the seven days, we all know what they say, that it's in "god time" which means 1 day = 7000 years, by their reckoning.
does this particular argument have any validity?
to me it seems like an "escape hatch", a tool to explain away what one could call certain "irregularities" in the bible.. they seem to think they can cross-reference any one part of the bible with any other as serves their ideological agenda.
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Shazard
When you are debating with them, you will notice, that on top of bible there is WT doctrine. And they mix and twist bible to fit this interpretation. Feature is that for basis of their "exegesis" they take such books as Proverbs 8, Revelation, Book of Daniel, Ezekiel etc. which are obviously not so clear and not very bright way to start interpretate Bible. But otherwise they can't. If they would take the base for Interpretation for example Gospel of John, they will never come to the conclusions they have. But this is exact rule of exegesis, you take very clear passages and apply them to not so clear with [b]SIMILAR[/b] context. JW does exactly oposite, they take some unclear passages (Proverbs 8) then they "make them clear" by applying some meanings of words from VERY different context, and wholala, you get your false base for false teaching. Typical example is interpretating John 1:1-18 using false analogies with Moses being "like god" to Pharaon. Contexts VERY different, Moses context is unclear compared to John 1:1-18. Actually John 1:1-18 is one of the cleares contexts which can be used to explain other regarding Christ's divinity. John itself says that his gospel is enough to get to know Jesus and come to faith and recieve everlasting life (John 20:30-31). 2 Cor 3 tells us about interperetation hierarchy. Old testament is UNDER New Testament interpretation. So real meaning you seek in New Testament and by this meaning you explain Old Testament. And that is wise, coz Old Testament speaks in riddles and unclear prophecies, but now when we know what exactly they were talking about we see them in new light - in light of Jesus Christ, so Jesus Christ is key for interpretation, not WT teaching