Posts by cyberguy

53

Celebrating Birthdays--Disfellowshipping Offense--Where stated in WT pubs?

by blondie in

blondis is asking for help.

where does it state that if a jw celebrates a brithday that it is a disfellowshipping offense.

i have searched and searched.

cyberguy

Right-on! XqsThaiPoes!

66

Question... Do JWs shun Family?

by Sassy in

i had a disagreement with xq in chat today, because he was trying to say that jws for the most part disobey the wts and still treat family like family even if they are dfd or quit being witnesses.. i don't feel that is true.

i think that the majority of us on here who no longer are jws have family members who no longer have anything to do with us and shun us.... so i said it would be interesting to take a poll and see how many here are treated just like all the rest of your 'loving family' who is a jw still.......are you treated the same?.

does family shun you for being df'd, da'd or no longer participating?or do they hide and talk to you but only when other active jws can't see?

cyberguy

I agree with you "sassy!" Although I have not been DF?d (yet!), my (self-righteous, "elder") brother no longer talks to me anymore! I?m very distressed right now, but I?m not the one at fault here am I? You need to ask yourself a similar question!

I?m truly sorry to hear that you?ve been mistreated! DF?ing is a one of the worse doctrines of JW?s (and isn?t in the Bible, is it?) in my humble opinion. It?s simple awful! It isn?t scriptural, although JW?s will defend their JW/DF-policy, they really can?t justify it! Show me in the Bible where a "committee of three" meets in private, to decide the fate of some poor soul (even in the Mosaic Law--it doesn't exist; I wonder why?) And then tells the congregation that someone has been DF?d? This is a WT policy; however, there's nothing in the Bible that even comes close!

Take care! Please realize you have "family" here on this "board," who will take the place of your natural family, as you become acquainted and accepted!

Best Wishes! Hang-in-there! WARMEST LOVE! Many of us are in a similar position!

Mahalo!

Cyberguy!

53

Celebrating Birthdays--Disfellowshipping Offense--Where stated in WT pubs?

by blondie in

blondis is asking for help.

where does it state that if a jw celebrates a brithday that it is a disfellowshipping offense.

i have searched and searched.

cyberguy

Brownboy,

The short answer is a "Christian must decide" (recall the recent article on blood fragments). In other words, since the Bible really does not say anything about this, as regards Christians, you must decide, and nobody should judge you if you wish to do it!

53

Celebrating Birthdays--Disfellowshipping Offense--Where stated in WT pubs?

by blondie in

blondis is asking for help.

where does it state that if a jw celebrates a brithday that it is a disfellowshipping offense.

i have searched and searched.

cyberguy

XqsThaiPoes,

The Society (as blondie has often pointed out) uses buzzwords and expressions, to control their worshipers (they like to "push" the "guilt-button"). So, when they use the expression "mature Christians," they really mean those who submit to their authority and direction, since the Bible does not really say anything about "abstaining from birthdays," does it? I suppose that they imply that those who decide to celebrate birthdays are "immature." However, like some have said on this thread, some have been DF for celebrating their own birthday or encouraging others to do the act.

53

Celebrating Birthdays--Disfellowshipping Offense--Where stated in WT pubs?

by blondie in

blondis is asking for help.

where does it state that if a jw celebrates a brithday that it is a disfellowshipping offense.

i have searched and searched.

cyberguy

I suppose one needs to qualify which birthday is being celebrated! If it?s Jesus? birthday, the "flock" book directs a Judicial Committee be appointed. However, if someone celebrates his or her own birthday, then technically, it isn?t a DF offense. However, like some have mentioned here, I?ve heard of some being DF for celebrating birthdays.

Interestingly, Nathan Knorr, evidently, celebrated his own mother?s birthday until she died, after moving her into Bethel, when she was in her early 90?s. I heard of this from a close and dear friend, now deceased, Worth Thornton (quoted in Ray Franz?s books as being a "bouncing-board" for the GB in the 70?s regarding doctrinal issues. He had been Knorr?s "secretary" for many years, and did some writing, main writer of the Informant, and was one of the "heavys" before leaving Bethel in the early 60?s). According to Worth, Knorr had the Bethel Kitchen bake a special cake, that had to exactly have the number of candles matching his mother?s age! Funny isn't it?

Minimus?

I understand where you?re coming from, but you?re appealing to logic, something foreign to the JW belief system. In all the cases that I?ve been involved with (circa 50+ judicial committee cases when I was an elder?I?m ashamed of most of this now, please forgive), when a JC determines to DF someone, the Society rarely comments or challenges the decision, right? Do you know of any case where the DF card was sent to headquarters, and some bozo there, wrote back to say "don?t do it!"

---Here?s a recent quote from the WT (10/15/98):

Questions From Readers

Many

of Jehovah?s Witnesses observe wedding anniversaries. A birthday is an anniversary of when you were born. So why celebrate wedding anniversaries and not birthday anniversaries?

Frankly, there is no need for a Christian to celebrate either. Still, that does not mean that the two are equal in import or that Christians must view the former (wedding anniversaries) as they do birthday celebrations.

As noted, it can be said that both are anniversaries because an "anniversary" is ?the annual recurrence of a date marking some event.? It could be an anniversary of any event?the day you had an automobile accident, saw an eclipse of the moon, went swimming with your family, and so on. It is clear that Christians do not turn every "anniversary" into a special day or have a party to commemorate it. One should consider the aspects of an event and decide what is fitting.

For example, God specifically instructed the Israelites to celebrate annually the day when his angel passed over the houses of the Israelites in Egypt and the resulting exodus of his people in 1513 B.C.E. (Exodus 12:14) When Jews, including Jesus, subsequently commemorated the anniversary of that event, it was in obedience to God?s direction, and they did not do so with a party or with gift-giving. The Jews also treated as special the anniversary of the rededication of the temple. Though commemorating this historical event was not commanded in the Bible, John 10:22, 23 suggests that Jesus was not critical of its being done. Finally, Christians have a special meeting on the anniversary of Jesus? death. Of course, this is done out of obedience to a clear command found in God?s Word.?Luke 22:19, 20.

What about wedding anniversaries? In some lands it is common for husband and wife to take note of the anniversary of their entering the marital state, an arrangement that God originated. (Genesis 2:18-24; Matthew 19:4-6) Certainly, the Bible does not put marriage in a bad light. Jesus both attended a marriage celebration and contributed to the pleasure of the occasion.?John 2:1-11.

It thus would not be strange that a couple might on their wedding anniversary take time to reflect on the joyfulness of that event and on their resolve to work for success as a couple. Whether they focus on this happy occasion in private, just as a couple, or they have a few relatives or close friends with them would be for them to decide. The occasion should not become a mere excuse for a large social gathering. On this occasion Christians would want to be guided by the principles that apply every day of their lives. So whether one takes note of a wedding anniversary or not is a personal matter.?Romans 13:13, 14.

What, though, about taking special note of a birthday? Do we have any indications from the Bible about such an anniversary?

Well, early in this century, Bible Students, as Jehovah?s Witnesses were then known, did take note of birthdays. Many of them kept small books called Daily Heavenly Manna. These contained a Bible text for each day, and many Christians put a tiny photograph on the pages corresponding to the birthdays of fellow Bible Students. Also, The Watch Tower of February 15, 1909, related that at a convention in Jacksonville, Florida, U.S.A., Brother Russell, then president of the Society, was ushered onto the platform. Why? He was given a surprise birthday present of some boxes of grapefruit, pineapples, and oranges. That gives us a glimpse of the past. To put matters in their context, recall that during that period, Bible Students also commemorated December 25 as the anniversary of Jesus? birth, or birthday. It was even customary to have Christmas dinner at the Brooklyn headquarters.

Of course, since then God?s people have grown spiritually in many respects. In the 1920?s increased light of truth enabled them to see the following:

Jesus was not born on December 25, a date linked to pagan religion. The Bible directs us to commemorate the date of Jesus? death, not the anniversary of his or anyone else?s birth. Doing so accords with Ecclesiastes 7:1 and the fact that how a faithful person?s life turns out is more important than the day of his birth. The Bible has no record that any faithful servant celebrated his birthday. It records birthday celebrations of pagans, linking these occasions with cruel acts. Let us get the background of those birthday anniversaries.

The first is the birthday of the Pharaoh in Joseph?s day. (Genesis 40:20-23) In this regard, the article on birthdays in Hastings? Encyclopædia of Religion and Ethics begins: "The custom of commemorating the day of birth is connected, in its form, with the reckoning of time, and, in its content, with certain primitive religious principles." Later, the encyclopedia quotes Egyptologist Sir J. Gardner Wilkinson, who wrote: "Every Egyptian attached much importance to the day, and even to the hour of his birth; and it is probable that, as in Persia, each individual kept his birthday with great rejoicings, welcoming his friends with all the amusements of society, and a more than usual profusion of the delicacies of the table."

Another birthday celebration mentioned in the Bible is Herod?s, at which John the Baptist was beheaded. (Matthew 14:6-10) The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia (1979 edition) provides this insight: "The pre-Hellenistic Greeks celebrated the birthdays of gods and prominent men. G[ree]k genéthlia designated these celebrations, while genésia meant a celebration commemorative of the birthday of a deceased important individual. In 2 Macc[abees] 6:7 we find reference to a monthly genéthlia of Antiochus IV, during which the Jews were forced to ?partake of the sacrifices.? . . . When Herod celebrated his birthday he was acting in accord with a Hellenistic custom; there is no evidence for the celebration of birthdays in Israel in pre-Hellenistic times."

Admittedly, true Christians today are not preoccupied with the roots and possible ancient religious connections of every practice or custom, but neither are they inclined to ignore pointed indications that do exist in God?s Word. This includes that the only birthday celebrations of Biblical record are of pagans and linked to instances of cruelty. Hence, the Scriptures clearly place birthday celebrations in a negative light, a fact that sincere Christians do not disregard.

Consequently, while it is entirely a private matter if Christians choose to take note of their wedding anniversary, there are good reasons why mature Christians abstain from celebrating birthdays.

14

Comments You Will Not Hear at the 8-15-04 WT Study (Abbreviated)

by blondie in

"go therefore and make disciples?teaching them to observe all the things i have commanded you.

http://www.geocities.com/cfpchurch/evangelismlessons.html.

http://www.drbchurch.contactbox.co.uk/main/otheract.html.

cyberguy

Thanks blondie!

Once again, the blame for decreased meeting attendance and lower field service hours is placed on ?weak? ones. Those who are not ?weak? (and of course, few will want to admit to ?that? will they? Is this cult programming or what?) need to encourage (rather, "push" the ?guilt button? of) those not measuring up to the WT?s quotas!

Let?s face it! If the publishers (employees) don?t place literature (make money, directly or indirectly) from placing (high-pressure selling of) literature, then the huge book-company goes out-of ?business and over 10,000 workers loose their jobs! Therefore, it seems to me, they have a great insentive to mount increasing peer-pressure, to increase, increase, increase, the "Kingdumb message" (and placements and $$$$$).

6

The WT versus hobbies

by Bonnie_Clyde in

someone already pointed out the 8-15-04 wt where a couple boxed their hobby items and put them away so they would have more time for spiritual pursuits.

however, when i saw the 8-22-04 awake i told me husband, "looks like it didn't take long to get that box out of the attic.

" on the front of the magazine there is a picture depicting a father and son assembling a model car.

cyberguy

Welcome Bonnie_Clyde,

You're right! Because there are many writers of these articles, and there are many points-of-view. This stuff drives me crazy; I'm sure others feel the same way!

4

BLOOD -- WTS Questions and Sound Answers 7

by Marvin Shilmer in

blood -- wts questions and sound answers 7

we know the wts says that blood belongs to god as a sacred possession(1).

but words are no more than lip-service unless actions speak likewise.

cyberguy

Hi Blondie!

Quick question: Is PolyHeme on the "Christians must decide" list? I've never heard about it before now. Thanks in advance for your kindly reply.

24

Who is Maximus?

by cyberguy in

who is maximus?

when i first came to this board, maxiums made some kindly responses to my posts.

anyway, is maxiums an x-co/do?

cyberguy

Thanks Farkel!

You provided eactly what I wanted to know! I wasn't interested in specifics, such as his name, address, and phone #, but rather, his background in an indiscriminant way; you provided exactly what I was wishing to find out! Thanks again!

24

Who is Maximus?

by cyberguy in

who is maximus?

when i first came to this board, maxiums made some kindly responses to my posts.

anyway, is maxiums an x-co/do?

cyberguy

JH, thanks for your inquiry!

Cyberguy, is an x-Bethelite from 1978-1980, the turbulent years. I was in the Publishing Department, and worked on the precursor to the MEPS. My main concern was developing typesetting software, with a specific assignment to revamp of the NWT and moving it to electronic typesetting.

I?ve been the JW-religion most of my life. However, my mother never fully accepted the JW-religion, and had me go to Presbyterian Churches since my preteens and afterward for some years. We/I also went to the KH at the same time?go figure. My mother actually saw-through the JW-crap, and I suppose this is the reason she didn?t want me to become one!

I was an Elder for about 14 years, and I?m doing the fade-thing, in my late 40?s. My JW family no longer talks to me.