Maybe if you quit banging your sister's husband some of that guilt will subside.
Welcome. :)
Posts by Cygnus
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33
making 1914 crumble
by googlemagoogle inyet another 1914 thread?
there are plenty of threads already about chronology, babylonian kings, egyptian kings, median and persian kings, there is also lots of information available about old bible-students and jw literature.
even a simplified chronology including "fallen baby" and "evil duck" is available somewhere on this site.
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Cygnus
"no JW would deny that the bible students expected the end of the world in 1914"
This assumption is wrong, as they would. Yes, they would.
And why? Because the WTS lies today about what they believed then.Well they don't come clean enough about their history, for sure. And there are plenty of examples even in recent WT material that suggests the Bible Students recognized Jesus' parousia in 1914 even though the reality is they already believed he was "present." But it's unfair to say the WTS has been completely dishonest regarding this point of fact. Notice:
*** w74 8/15 pp. 506-507 No Spiritual "Energy Crisis" for Discreet Ones ***
In 1877, Russell joined Nelson H. Barbour in publishing the book Three Worlds, and the Harvest of This World. It indicated that the end of the Gentile Times in 1914 would be preceded by a forty-year period to open with a three-and-a-half-year harvest beginning in 1874 C.E. According to Bible chronology thereafter adopted, it was understood that 6,000 years of man’s existence on earth ended in 1872, whereas six millenniums of human sin concluded and the seventh millennium began in 1874. Christ’s presence was thought to have begun in October 1874, at the start of the great antitypical Jubilee.—Lev. chap. 25; Rev. 20:4.
From that understanding, it was thought that the "chaste virgin" class began going forth to meet the Bridegroom in 1874. (2 Cor. 11:2) Hence, when C. T. Russell began publishing a new religious magazine in July 1879, it was called "Zion’s Watch Tower and Herald of Christ’s Presence." It was heralding Christ’s presence as having begun in 1874.
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ka chap. 11 p. 187-188 "Here Is the Bridegroom!" ***The year 1874 was calculated as being the end of six millenniums of sin among mankind. From this latter date mankind was understood to be in the seventh millennium... Charles T. Russell began publishing his own religious magazine in July of 1879[;] he published it under the title "Zion’s Watch Tower and Herald of Christ’s Presence." He had already become familiar with Wilson’s The Emphatic Diaglott, which translated the Greek word pa·rou·si´a as "presence," not "coming," in Matthew 24:3 and elsewhere. The new magazine was heralding Christ’s invisible presence as having begun in 1874. This presence was to continue until the end of the Gentile Times in 1914, when the Gentile nations would be destroyed and the remnant of the "chaste virgin" class would be glorified with their bridegroom in heaven by death and resurrection to life in the spirit... However, with that end of the Gentile Times there did not also come the anticipated glorification of the remnant of the church in the heavens. It was first on October 31, 1916, that Russell himself died, leaving the Society’s presidency to another. Something must have been miscalculated.
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jv chap. 5 p. 47 Proclaiming the Lord’s Return (1870-1914) ***Barbour succeeded in convincing Russell that Christ’s invisible presence had begun in 1874... Russell wrote the pamphlet The Object and Manner of Our Lord’s Return. It was published in 1877. That same year Barbour and Russell jointly published Three Worlds, and the Harvest of This World. This 196-page book discussed the subjects of restitution and Biblical time prophecies. Though each subject had been treated by others before, in Russell’s view this book was "the first to combine the idea of restitution with time-prophecy." It presented the view that Jesus Christ’s invisible presence dated from the autumn of 1874.
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yb75 p. 37 United States of America (Part One) ***In 1877, Barbour and Russell jointly published Three Worlds, and the Harvest of This World. This 196-page book combined information about Restitution with Biblical time prophecies. It presented the view that Jesus Christ’s invisible presence and a forty-year period opening with a three-and-a-half-year harvest dated from the autumn of 1874.
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sl chap. 16 p. 287 Awaiting the "New Heavens and a New Earth" ***According to an inaccurate chronology that had been worked out from the King James Authorized Version Bible, Russell calculated that Christ’s "presence" had begun in the year 1874 C.E., unseen to human eyes and seen only by the eye of faith. This was why, when he began publishing a new religious magazine in defense of the ransom sacrifice of Jesus Christ, Russell entitled it "Zion’s Watch Tower and Herald of Christ’s Presence."
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Is the 144,000 persons mentioned in Rev 7:4-8 literal or symbolic
by trem ini know that this may have been treated before but i still need your valuable suggestions.. rev 7:4 says "and i heard the number of those who were sealed, a hundred and forty-four thousand, sealed out of every tribe of the sons of israel", veses 5 to 8 provides additional details that 12,000 were selected from the 12 tribes of israel.
the book of numbers 1: 20-42 lists the following as the 12 tribes of natural israel: reu ben, sim eon, gad, judah, is sachar, zeb ulun, e phraim, manas seh, benjamin, dan, ash er and naph tali.
however, rev 7:5-8 did not list the tribes of ephraim and dan but instead listed 10 approved tribes with 2 non approved tribes of levi and joseph.
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Cygnus
Lacks insight? She's one of the most insightful posters I've seen. I'm not sure that Revelation directly teaches, or supports a teaching, that anyone goes to heaven; I think the 144,000 definitely represent an earthly group of people. And we're talking about a book written some time between 65 AD and 110 AD so it had a particular audience in mind, and it ain't people living in the third millenium AD.. But who knows. I think we can all agree on who doesn't know.
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18
Hello to all
by mariposa inhi.. i've been meaning to introduce myself at some point in time when i had enough balls to ask some of the questions i've been thinking for the past couple of months.
however, i've had a horredous day and now just want to talk to anyone.... my hubbys asleep, gotta work tomorrow again...get to spend all day just me and the baby alone again.
i'm petsitting for the cutest dog who will not stop whining and clawing at the door every 15 minutes.
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Cygnus
It certainly sounds shitty.... we have to remember though, for all our problems, there are a LOT of people that have it a LOT worse. Keep yer chin up, with some work and a little luck things'll change for the better.
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27
Blatantly deceitful use of secular sources
by AuldSoul ini am looking good repository of instances where the watchtower or awake!
have quoted secular sources in such a way to make it appear the source supports their argument when it is blatantly obvious that the secular source disagreed with them.
if it doesn't exist, i am about to make one.
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Cygnus
There are quite a few examples of the WT saying that the early Bible Students were looking forward to 1914 as the beginning of Christ's presence when they obviously didn't. I have written about that recently.
The best source for misquotations is Alan Fuererbacher's work. Someone provided a link. He also found problems in WT articles dealing with chronology, as well as science and evolution. His work, and someone else's regarding the cross, were the last straws for me that broke the proverbial camel's back and I couldn't support a lying organization any longer.
edited to add: a funny illustration in a WT in the '90s is of Jesus hauling a telephone pole up the hill. How silly.
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39
How do you like your steak?
by JH inwell done, medium, rare?
and how do you cook it?
on the grill, in a frying pan, or grill in the oven?
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Cygnus
Most people seem to like theirs medium rare. Count me among them.
One of my favorite film lines, from Goodfellas:
"How do you like your steak?" "Rare...Medium-rare." "Medium rare, eh? An aristocrat..."
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Cygnus
I always feel bad for the poor Kool-Aid man. He had nothing to do with it. Does Flavor-Aid have a mascot?
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Watchtower lying by omission
by Cygnus incheck this out:.
*** w84 12/1 pp.
13-14 happy are those found watching!
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Cygnus
Check this out:
*** w84 12/1 pp. 13-14 Happy Are Those Found Watching! ***
16 Since “the more established Christian churches” were no longer on the watch for Christ’s presence and his receiving Kingdom power, it was left to what those churches called “heretical groups” to do so. In the 19th century, several such groups appeared in lands where the Bible and the means to study it were available to the common people. . .
18 Yet, Jesus told his disciples: “Happy are those slaves whom the master on arriving finds watching! . . . Who really is the faithful steward, the discreet one, whom his master will appoint over his body of attendants to keep giving them their measure of food supplies at the proper time? Happy is that slave, if his master on arriving finds him doing so!”—Luke 12:37-43.
19 Among the so-called heretical groups who were watching for the sign of Christ’s return in the latter third of the 19th century was a Bible-study class presided over by Charles Russell in Pittsburgh, United States. Russell wrote: “From 1870 to 1875 was a time of constant growth in grace and knowledge and love of God and his Word. . . . However, we were then merely getting the general outline of God’s plan, and unlearning many long-cherished errors. . . . We felt greatly grieved at the error of Second Adventists, who were expecting Christ in the flesh.”
20 Russell and his associates quickly understood that Christ’s presence would be invisible. They disassociated themselves from other groups and, in 1879, began publishing spiritual food in Zion’s Watch Tower and Herald of Christ’s Presence. From its first year of publication, this magazine pointed forward, by sound Scriptural reckoning, to the date 1914 as an epoch-making date in Bible chronology. So when Christ’s invisible presence began in 1914, happy were these Christians to have been found watching!
For those who are new or just lurking and don't know, in 1914 the Bible Students had believed Christ was already invisibly present since 1874. This is admitted in a few Watchtower publications. So how could these persons be found "happy" when the event they were looking for had already occurred decades before? This particular article blasts "Christendom" for not being on the watch for Christ's arrival, yet the Bible Students were completely mistaken. The last sentence I bolded in red that is a complete and utter lie by the Watchtower Society. How could a person with standards that includes forsaking lying possibly teach such a thing as "truth" to other people at their doors?
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Tobby888 is now "no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses"
by toby888 ini finally did it.
my da letter was short and sweet, so i gave them nothing to use for potential ammunition.
they announced me last night.
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Cygnus
Toby, that's great, you got to speak your mind and put closure on your JWism. I did something similar although I made the elders work a lot harder. Good man!
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Patterson has a pool?!
by lonelysheep ini just read this http://www.thejournalnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?aid=/20051104/news04/511040390/1027/news11 and was suprised to learn there's an indoor pool up there.
are there tennis courts, too?
although they don't suspect the parasite of spreading to other pools, health department officials said as a precaution, they contacted the county's five other indoor swimming facilities green chimneys in patterson, carmel fitness and racquet club in carmel, jehovah's witnesses' watchtower educational center in patterson, arms acres in carmel and st. basil's academy in garrison to recommend that they superchlorinate their pools.
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Cygnus
It's amusing to me to see the new wave of JWs on the internet defend their freedom to think what they want and do what they want. They all sound exactly the same.