lets invent some problem for jw's to see how far you can take their rules.
1.siamese twins get baptised.one now get disfellowshipped for apostacy.the witness one ,get counceled by the elders for mixing with apostates.eventualy gets disfellowshipped for too much assosiation with apostate other half.
2.man has sex change, but then becomes witness.is he a brother or a sister?
What a gas!! However, Sleepy, I suggest the following solutions to your problems:
1) Siamese problem: qualifies as "in the immediate household" association, as per the August 2002 KM;
2) Male sex change problem: of course he's a brother, but would have to wear head covering;
3) Studying monkey: the Bible study is not the challenge, making it through the baptismal questions is the killer.
Respectfully submitted,
The JW Problem Solver
(See my new web-site http://www.jwproblemsnomore.com)
rado vleugel pointed out on another thread that the current response to "do you shun former members?
" on the jw-media.org site represents a more hardline viewpoint as far as treatment of disfellowshipped family members.
once it said, "disfellowshipping does not sever family ties.
Ah, yes, how we ply the narrow channel between perception and reality! "Those who simply leave the faith are not shunned." Officially, perhaps not, but in reality, yes. And then there is the unrevealed but increasingly common consequence of "leaving the faith," namely, the elders come after you and assert that by willful inactivity you have disassociated yourself, and then the shunning DOES begin. Or, as in my case, to avoid that classification, you begin attending again. THEN the elders form an "investigative committee" to determine (now that you are reactivated) whether you are harboring apostate opinions. Obviously you are guilty of that, for otherwise why would you have deliberately gone inactive? Damned if you stay, damned if you leave.
What a tangled web they weave.
watchtower magazine of october 1st, 1986 criticized that many organizations have high administrative and distribution costs so that only a fragment of the donations serves their goal:.
what does your money accomplish?.
prospective donors to worthy causes have reason to ask: 'just how much of my contribution will directly benefit the people it is designed to help?
WTS would be glad to disclose their financial statements, but, dang it all, those records are kept in the same file drawer as the pedophile list, which they just can't seem to find. LOL
on thursday evening, i received a phone call from a young woman, i have been helping by talking and emailing.
i have never met her.
bill bowen put her in touch with me nearly a year ago.
Mulan, I couldn't agree more. I'm in chat almost every day, and I really appreciate the support that I get there. True, there have been a couple troublemakers there this month, and some insensitive remarks made, but like Xena I am learning how to chat around those very few cases.
Unfortunately, the remark you refer to WAS directed at your/our friend. Chat was a little racy at the moment, and I know the poster meant no harm. FWIW, I have myself occasionally left chat because it got a little too thick even for me (and I'm a construction worker!).
Hoping that your kindly reminder will raise the bar! Thanks.
how many victims are there of the 23,720 pedophiles in the societies record file?
284640 individual victims (not repeat acts of abuse).
this is my fuzzy math but how many would you guess?.
Nanoprobe, you and I must have been psychically mind-melded on July 16. I started a similar thread in the "Child Abuse" forum http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=32268&site=3
You have other links here that I didn't have.
Depressingly amazing number of victims, isn't it?
i've noticed many new ones to our lil community here and have been unable to welcome you all personally.
there is a great variety of people here and loads of information and support.
feel free to vent!
Mimilly, I take your welcome personally!
Been here a whole 2 weeks (wow) and already a Senior Member (thank you, Simon, for such a lenient bell curve) Really just an old geezer Newbie.
Guest77: Love your positive attitude!
Craig
this is my first post on this forum.
i am by all accounts a witness, if not an ideal one.
in light of the reaction after the panorama program i have seen a mixed variety of responses.
Welcome, and thank you for your thoughtful post.
You are wise to "reserve judgements on all [these] issues."
Mud-slinging is not the purpose here, but some men's actions result in slinging mud on themselves. "The sins of some men are publicly manifest, leading directly to judgement, but as for other men [their sins] also become manifest later." (1 Tim 5:24 NWT) Judging motives is not the purpose here, but the actions of all men eventually make their motives clear for all to see. "I, Jehovah, am examining the heart, examining the kidneys, even to give to each one according to his ways, according to the fruitage of his dealings." (Jer 17:10 NWT)
As for the Society, or any society, Scripture says: "It is better to take refuge in Jehovah Than to trust in earthling man." (Ps 118:8 NWT) As you say "Do not look to other human beings as a means to this end an never accept or lay down on man made policies."
You apparently have a very open mind. Keep it that way. "If anyone thinks he has acquired knowledge of something, he does not yet know [it] just as he ought to know [it]." (1 Cor 8:2 NWT)
Wishing you the very best on your journey! It has just begun.
Craig
thought i should pass this on to you.. i just saw this.
now you can see anyone's driver's license on the.
internet - including your own!
Actually, that's a better picture than I have on my license!
Scorpion as in "sting" operation?
didn't think my first thread would be about this, but all the conversation about how many jw abuse victims there could be really got me to thinking.
i fully agree with everyone here that this is a people and victims problem, not a numbers issue.
however, i was painfully surprised to see how the following statistics work out.. the us national child victimization rate for 2000 was 12.2 per 1,000.
Europe: "...their rate was very low." How often I used that response! That's one thing that struck me about the raw numbers--even if a JW said the WTS was 10 times better than "the world," that would still leave almost 27,000 victims worldwide, about 1 in every 3 congregations. I don't think the average dub would even want to accept that rate, but how far can reality be stretched? (Oh, sorry, forgot I was talking about WTS).
Scully: Indeed no, my original calculations DIDN'T include the accumulated victims that have now become adults. Makes it all the worse, considering that abused children so often themselves become abusers as adults. The problem feeds on itself. PS: Thanks for correcting that 27,000 to 23,720 (I couldn't find the thread).
Thanks to both,
Craig
there is no evidence that our time has any specific biblical prophetic importance if the 1914 claims are wrong.even doctrines like the "two-class" system, which is a unique interpretation by the jehovah's witnesses, is actually dependent on the 1914 date.
the bible states that the final fall and destruction of jerusalem was in the 19th regnal year of nebuchadnezzar (jeremiah 52:12; 2 kings 25:1-4; 2. chron 26:11,19).
the most secure source of absolute dates comes from contemporary inscription with astronomical observations.
Let's try this:
1914 CE minus 607 BCE plus 539 BCE divided by 70 years multiplied by 1879 CE raised to the power of 5 WTS presidents integrated between the lower limit of Awake and the upper limit of Watchtower, this entire expression then as a declining base e logarthimic function around the point 1925 CE, factoring in the hyperbolic regression instability of 1918 CE and considered as an orthogonal polynomial function commencing with 1975 CE, and finally adjusting for the singularity distortion of the new "generation" WE FINALLY ARRIVE AT THE INESCAPABLE AND MATHEMATICALLY CERTAIN CONCLUSION THAT...(uh, where were we?)
Jan, good work!
