Posts by dozy

11

2007 District Conventions

by dozy in

i've heard from 2 independent and impeccable sources "close to the gb" (i should have been a journalist!

) that the 2007 conventions are all to be held within a one month period.

as stadiums are often booked up to five years in advance , this has caused consternation among district overseers and at least one stadium has charged the jws several thousands of pounds in a penalty clause to cancel and reschedule the booking.

dozy

I've heard from 2 independent and impeccable sources "close to the GB" (I should have been a journalist!) that the 2007 conventions are all to be held within a one month period. As stadiums are often booked up to five years in advance , this has caused consternation among district overseers and at least one stadium has charged the JWs several thousands of pounds in a penalty clause to cancel and reschedule the booking. No change in 2008 arrangements , so this seems to be a one off , for next year.

Any of the more thoughtful posters like to comment on the possible reasons and/or implications for this WTS decision? And any confirmation from the Bethel "insiders"?

32

I need the top 5 questions to present to the elders....

by AK - Jeff in

jw
friends

anyone who has been following my situation may recall that it looks like the elder's are 'closing in' on wifey and i after having been out about two and a half years.

i think they may force a showdown with a registered letter inviting me to the jc.

i don't care if they df me.

dozy

"I want to present myself as having left over serious issues of conscience, and not out of rebellion of any sort. Kill 'em with kindness and careful reasoning. I know it's shot in the dark. But does anyone have a list or just one or two foolproof questions that would stick with these people? I would like to incorporate stimulating questions about the five greatest concerns I have with the organization."

Is it just me that finds this kind of approach distasteful? Someone wants to DA himself and asks a group of (mainly) ex-witnesses / apostates for a few questions to put in a letter to the rest of the congregation so that he can appear to leaving over "serious issues of conscience". I'm looking for my five greatest concerns - any suggestions for my greatest concerns , folks? Any foolproof questions?

Maybe JWD could produce a standard DF letter - preprinted , with a space for name and date , with perhaps ten popular "greatest concerns" and the user could maybe delete as required those that didn't really concern him/her. How about adding a few "field tested" foolproof AND stimulating questions guaranteed to stump any witness (money back if nobody is fooled or stimulated [sounds like fun])? It reminds me of the time an evangelical tried to give me the book "20 Questions to ask a Jehovah's witness". I told him that the book was actually for him and not me. I asked him if he knew what the questions were. He admitted that he hadn't read the book - it was in pristine , mint condition. I asked him if he actually had any questions. He said that he didn't , but once he had read the book , he would ask me some of the questions from the book the next time a witness called. And they think we are dumb!

Have we switched from relying on an organisation which gives all the answers to relying on an organisation that gives all the questions? If so , is this a positive step?

26

Dozy - More Clarification on the UN Issue?

by slimboyfat in

jw
friends

i know you feel a bit bombarded with questions, but please if you could clear up just a couple of things for me that would be appreciated since i found your posts on the issue especially interesting.

i must admit this whole "un scandal" bores me to tears and i have avoided most posts on the issue right from the start.

however, from the little i have read i think there are some holes in the defense of the society you have provided on this issue.

dozy

Auldsoul - I have already answered your questions. Remember - I'm not a WT apologist - I'm actively exploring whether there is any information fatal to my beliefs.

Like many of your colleagues who are in the ex-witness camp , I just don't see this as a major issue. Opposers have crawled all over this for years, examining in minutae articles in the magazines , UN policy documents etc. There must be 20 threads in "the best of" section. Some seem a bit obsessed with this UN / DPI business. and it must therefore be frustrating when others do not feel that this is so important.

26

Dozy - More Clarification on the UN Issue?

by slimboyfat in

jw
friends

i know you feel a bit bombarded with questions, but please if you could clear up just a couple of things for me that would be appreciated since i found your posts on the issue especially interesting.

i must admit this whole "un scandal" bores me to tears and i have avoided most posts on the issue right from the start.

however, from the little i have read i think there are some holes in the defense of the society you have provided on this issue.

dozy

Hi Slim. I’m with you on the UN issue - I basically regard it as a bit inconsequential. I don’t know all the facts and make no claim to be an official apologist on this matter. Some ex-witnesses feel that it is a huge issue (some even used it as their sole reason for leaving , which seems a bit harsh) and others don’t seem to care too much. I'm bored with it as well , but in answer to the questions:

1... Do we have any evidence that the WTS submitted Awake magazines in support of the application? If so , do we know which articles? Assuming the answer is no , then it is impossible to determine whether or not the WTS acted dishonourably. Is it possible that the WTS also submitted Watchtower articles , or that a representative explained the JW theological position when making the application. Who knows? It is all speculation. As you yourself mentioned with reference to “theocratic warfare” , we all “change our hats” depending on the audience. Tony Blair’s speech to the Trade Unions is completely different to his speech to the CBI (employers organisation) or to the Labour Party conference. Nobody would accuse him of being dishonest - it is something we do each day without thinking.

2...I don’t know the reference and it may have been ill-chosen , but I think most people would acknowledge that the relationships that large churches like the Catholics have is far closer than JWs. I have worked in East Africa and both Catholic and Protestant churches are far more closely involved with the UN. Some people are even on the payroll of both organisations. Regarding the reference , it would seem that the NGO registration was regarded as so un-important that not many even knew about it in Bethel , so did the writers definitely know?

3... The UN business is well known in my cong as we have a very vocal population of “born again” individuals who want to discuss the UN business every time someone calls at their door , so the brothers are well informed on the situation and the WTS defence. We even had a 20 minute "local needs" on the subject. I don’t know how well known it is amongst the JW population at large.

I think the UN NGO business has to be put in the context of an effort in the early 90’s for the society to become more engaged with putting its case across in connection with the opening up of the former communist lands. The WTS tried to replicate what is sees as the success it has with the HLC / medical liason groups with the UN and media organisations. Unfortunately , if you "sup with the Devil , then you need a big spoon." The WTS has learned that this hands-on / engagement approach doesn't work as the recent scrapping of the public information committees in the UK illustrates. dozy (of the "I'm not a troll" class)

58

O.K. Everyone..Here it is!! Grayson v.s. Insight Book!!!

by Lady Liberty in

here are the scanned copies i promised i would post.

thanks to my wonderful husband, he made it all possible, as he is a computer whiz!

these copies show the out and out deception on the part of the organization.

dozy

This is a very poor example of a supposed misquote by the WTS and wouldn't convince anyone who has a 3rd Grade understanding of punctuation.I cannot see the original quote as the format is too small , but the use of square brackets within a quotation is the recognized literary method to add an editorial interjection that may or may not agree or harmonise with the views of the original writer. The following quote is from http://www.wisc.edu/writing/Handbook/QPA_quoting.html

Adding Clarification, Comment, or Correction

Within quotations, use square brackets [ ] (not parentheses) to add your own clarification, comment, or correction.

The reader of such a passage would be wrong in assuming that information within square brackets in any way correlates or agrees with the original author. That is why it is in square brackets. Lady Libery is incorrect to describe this in any way as a misquote - she is demonstrating a lack of understanding of basic grammar. The Insight book editor has accurately punctuated the quotation.

38

Crisis of Conscience

by Kristofer in

i just finished reading this book.

i've got to say, that last chapter was amazing and so inspiring.

i haven't felt that good after reading a book in a long time.

dozy

"Is it possible for anyone to remain a JW after reading this? "

Yes - I read it a few years ago and am still a JW. My wife did and is still a (devout) JW. Franz writes well , but without knowing the other side of the accounts he discusses , it is impossible to establish a term of reference on his book alone. Some ex-witnesses are not big Franz fans - he doesn't support the Silentlambs program , claiming that child abuse isn't a problem in the WTS. Nevertheless , both his books are fascinating background reading , if a little dated now (he has been out of the loop for many years).

24

Active Witnesses...... lets get a head count....

by ?me? in

just wondering out there, who is still active?

makes most of the meetings, all the conventions, comments, is still active socially with the congregation,out in service, hall building etc.

just wondering, because we know who are the elders, or recently former elders and i usually seek their posts for some interesting comments... .

dozy

"makes most of the meetings, all the conventions, comments, is still active socially with the congregation,out in service, hall building etc. "

Moi aussi. (Maybe not the hall building - can't put up a shelf or wire a plug. Mind you - looking at the workmanship on some quick-builds... - maybe I should get that form in!)

29

The death of the Watchtower pre-study

by slimboyfat in

jw
friends

who is old enough to remember when witnesses used eagerly to meet on a friday or saturday night to "pre-study" the watchtower in groups: reading paragraphs, underlining, reading scriptures (sometimes)?.

what happened to that, does anyone still do it anywhere?

i think witnesses are just not as enthusiastic about the "truth" as they used to be.

dozy

I don't recall any organised WT study efforts - maybe I'm too young as well , or maybe it just wasn't the done thing in the congregations I associated with. I know that some devout witnesses still study the WT on a Monday , arguing that this follows the pattern of the Bethel. I always thought that this was chronic scheduling as by the time the WT came round on a Sunday , you had forgotten what the article was all about. Also , when were you supposed to do the prep for the Tuesday book study?

I don't really buy into the "WTS are afraid of brothers studying together seperately" argument - I think it is just another sign of a lack of enthusiasm for studying nowadays. We have a circuit assembly shortly & several people have said to me that it is great to have a Thursday night off and not have to prepare the WT that week. Look around at the next assembly (those of you who still attend) - how many people have studied (or even brought along) their Watchtower?

Slightly OT , we did have a few pioneers studying the "pioneer book" with some of the younger ones in the congregation. This was clamped down upon , as the elders argued that the "specialness" of attending the pio school would be diluted if the information was widely discussed beforehand.

36

"Evil Slave" or Apostate which term do you prefer used on ex-JW's?

by booker-t in

i hate both terms to describe ex-jws.

i know most people say "apostate" when they refer to an ex-jw that is an opposer now but some will say "so and so" is an "evil slave" now.

evil slave sounds so "boogie man under the bed" that i just laugh when i hear the term.

dozy

Apostate. I only ever hear people using the expression "Evil Slave" in connection with Ray Franz or the Silentlamb leaders.

185

News About 2006 Memorial

by Severus in

this is a call to action.

please read.

jehovah's witnesses will be celebrating the memorial of jesus death on wednesday, april 12th.

dozy

I've seen a couple of these "cheques" when doing audit at conventions. They are usually shown around the audit room and everybody has a good laugh at the "dumb apostates" and the cheque then goes in the bin , so I suspect that the effect is probably zero. It is a bit spooky , though , thinking that people are putting these in boxes.

It would be interesting if one was put in a KH contribution box - it would certainly start a frenzy of speculation.