I think they were on the right track there, at least. Only instead of the Bible requiring support in the form of misleading and fallacious interpretations, it should require the reader to apply reason and good sense to their interpretation. That's one of the reasons I found the philosophy and commentaries of Moses Maimonides very interesting after I left the JWs--he actively encourages people to be critical of their beliefs and the texts from which they come.
apfergus
JoinedPosts by apfergus
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9
the Bible must be supplemented by something else
by drew sagan inthere is no book better to deal with than the holy bible.
it is symbolically called the sword of the spirit; and certainly it is better to manufacture and distribute the sword of the spirit than to engage in the arms race and in making the munitions of carnal warfare, which only result in injuring, maiming and killing.
but the bible must be supplemented by something else.
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apfergus
I think kid-A and anewme hit the nail right on the head. Sin is a human-defined social construct used to persuade people to follow a certain code of conduct. Rather than worrying about moral absolutes passed down from God, it seems to me to be much more practical to chose one's course of action by selecting the one which will result in the best outcome for everyone (even if it means one does not come out ahead).
To use some of the examples MsMcD cited, gay marriage can't be shown to do any harm to anyone (at least not in any way that holds up under reason)--why should it be sinful or immoral? Other things can be conditional, such as having sex while not married. Why should this be sinful or immoral if both partners are consenting adults? -
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apfergus
I think it was Bertrand Russell who said that sin is "that which offends the magistrate."
But in all seriousness, I see no evidence for the existence of any kind of moral absolute. The right course of action is not determined by some list of "wrong" and "right" possibilities. Each situation must be analyzed and the best solution to any dilema should follow from that. It's not easy or cut-and-dried like just being able to check off activities from a list, but I've never found the easiest method to be the best. -
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How long did it take you to get over it?
by AK - Jeff inone of the posters here - before i knew she was a poster here - in fact before i knew of this site at all, sent me an email early on in my exit.
she likened the whole leaving thing with grieving over a dead loved one - said it took most about two years to work thru all the phases of that loss - denial, anger, etc.. i think she had it about right - that's about how long it took me.
but without jwd it would have been longer.
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apfergus
I'm not sure it's something I'll ever get over completely. It took a while for me to look for fast, easy answers like the JWs had to offer, but eventually I realized that there were no fast or easy answers and that I was just going to have to figure out life on my own. So then it took me at least a few years to do all that figuring out that I should have done instead of subscribing to whatever the Watchtower told me when I was growing up. Even though I've developed my own outlook on life, from time to time I still find that there's deprograming left to be done. Those times make a lot of the pain come rushing back.
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JW,s Best Dressed People !!
by moomanchu ini thought of all the money i saved on not buying all the meeting clothes for my family, and it got me wondering about the reason why jw,s need to dress up for everything they do.
i think it must have all started because russell had that clothing store and this was a good way for him to have a cornered market.
comments $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
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apfergus
I bought a nicer suit for my high school's speech and debate team than I did for going to the meetings. Everyone at the KH was usually dressed fairly well. Most people didn't dress as formally for the bookstudies, though; it was just khakhis and a sweater for me, usually.
I think a connection between Russel's clothing store and the witnesses love of dressing nice would be tenuous at best. I find it much more likely to be because they want to show "The World" that they are better or holier or whatever in the presence of god, just so people will have a little bit of respect for them because they can tie a double windsor or something. -
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What age group has to sacrifice the most to be a JW?
by JH in.
what age group has it easier or harder to be a jw?
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apfergus
I can agree that it's hard to be a young person in "The Truth", but honestly I got out when I was 17 and before I was baptised, so I think I managed to avoid some of the worst. My family that's still in the organization doesn't have to shun me, etc. Yeah, it was a really hard time in my life for me, but I really feel like I got off easy when I hear about other people's stories.
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DO SOMETHING
by ArtfulDodger ini see this site gets thousands of postings every day .. from literally thousands of members, mostly ex-dubs, from all over the world.. rather than simply go on moaning and whinging about the big nasty org why don't you all put your efforts into something positive ... do something.. ok - the org is evil .. but it exists ... and simply whining on about it doesn't change that.
with your efforts directed at something positive, you could do wonders for .
.for anything you choose.. hundreds of real charities could do with your support - to help the really needy .
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apfergus
First of all, many people are here for moral support--not to subvert the Watchtower by posting messages on a message board. Some people just have some anger, frustration, or other pent up emotions because they were hurt in one way or another by some people who claimed to love them. Don't get all snappy at them because they aren't out on the streets leading the crusade against the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society.
Second, if you're going to get on other people's cases about not taking direct action, the least you could do is offer some suggestions as to what can be done. If you've found some methods to help others escape the Organization, by all means share them. But if you don't have any idea what to do yourself don't presume to tell other people that they should be doing. Last time I checked, tearing down a cult of some six million people isn't just something you can just wake up and do (or even start to do) on a Saturday afternoon. -
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Free Home Bible Study, NOT!
by VM44 in"would you like a free home bible study?
" the jws ask people at their door.. the problem is, the study is not free, and is not a bible study!.
not a bible study?
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apfergus
Indoctrination it is. There are so many places in the Bible where the JWs actually switch rhetoric practically in mid verse in order to squeeze out support for their position. Take away the suplements from the society and pressure from a study conductor and I'd wager no one would be able to come to the same conclusions again.
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If All Who Wanted To Leave, Left...
by Lady Liberty inmy sister and i were talking today about how many would really be witnesses if they were allowed to leave without any reprocussions??
what would the real count be??
i bet you it would be far less than 6 million!!!
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apfergus
Just like a lot of folks already said: the shunning process is just a tool to stop people from leaving. It's all about control; shunning is in place because without it the JWs numbers would most certainly be fewer. It's hard to say by how much, though.
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How Were You Treated By The Elders?
by minimus ingenerally, were you treated with respect, kindness and empathy or did the elders treat you badly?
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apfergus
The weird thing was that the Elders and other older members of the congregation were the nicest to me. I was seventeen when I just stopped going to the KH mostly because there were never any other kids my age who were willing to give me the time of day, much less provide me with enough of a social life to stop me from associating with all those "wicked" kids at school.
Of course, after I hadn't been to the KH in over a week or so I kept getting calls from a couple of the Elders for a while, all of which I ignored. I didn't want to ruin the one thing about going to the KH which I remembered fondly by getting tied up in the politics that were sure to follow.