under_believer

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Posts by under_believer

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  58

  Windowless Buildings

  by IHaveASavior in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  why are there no windows in the buildings known as "kingdom halls of jehovah's witnesses?

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  under_believer

  Some KH's have windows. I have gone to several in my time and at least two had windows. However, both of those had been standing for at least 30 years and predated the factory-style quickbuild designs.
  My understanding about leaving windows out was that it had something to do with worry about vandalism. It's easier to firebomb a building with windows. Or just break the windows, for that matter.
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  19

  "Jehovah's Traveling Salesmen" - Collier's 2 Nov 1946

  by Nathan Natas in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  page1 - http://www.savefile.com/files/6499609 .

  page 2 - http://www.savefile.com/files/9093509 .

  page 3 - http://www.savefile.com/files/9507256 .

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  under_believer

  This one isn't bad either:
  
  *** it-1 pp. 917-918 Generation ***
  
  When the term “generation” is used with reference to the people living at a particular time, the exact length of that time cannot be stated, except that the time would fall within reasonable limits. These limits would be determined by the life span of the people of that time or of that population. The life span of the ten generations from Adam to Noah averaged more than 850 years each. (Ge 5:5-31; 9:29) But after Noah, man’s life span dropped off sharply. Abraham, for example, lived only 175 years. (Ge 25:7) Today, much as it was in the time of Moses, people living under favorable conditions may reach 70 or 80 years of age. Moses wrote: “In themselves the days of our years are seventy years; and if because of special mightiness they are eighty years, yet their insistence is on trouble and hurtful things; for it must quickly pass by, and away we fly.” (Ps 90:10)
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  19

  "Jehovah's Traveling Salesmen" - Collier's 2 Nov 1946

  by Nathan Natas in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  page1 - http://www.savefile.com/files/6499609 .

  page 2 - http://www.savefile.com/files/9093509 .

  page 3 - http://www.savefile.com/files/9507256 .

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  under_believer

  M.J., w97 9/15 p. 10 par. 2 Will You Be Faithful Like Elijah? isn't conclusive, but it does contain many references to 70CE, and then says "for over 60 years now we've been doing this stuff," which seems pretty suspicious. Like they're implying "less than 10 years left folks."
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  34

  Interesting thought on the importance of the name Jehovah.

  by PaNiCAtTaCk in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  first off, i did not write this.

  i found it on the net.

  i think this guy made an interesting point.

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  under_believer

  Yeah Gary, and if that was the case the most logical FDS precursor to the WTS would be the Second Adventists (Millerites)--which means that the FDS also needs to answer for why they incorrectly predicted 1844, along with all the other dates. :)
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  11

  Conversation with friend leads to despair

  by under_believer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my status is "fading but still sort of in.

  " i don't believe any of it anymore.. i just had a long conversation with a very old friend of mine who is "weak," as in he doesn't preach, and he doesn't make many of the meetings.

  he still believes everything, though... he's just "weak.

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  under_believer

  My status is "fading but still sort of in." I don't believe any of it anymore.
  I just had a long conversation with a very old friend of mine who is "weak," as in he doesn't preach, and he doesn't make many of the meetings. He still believes everything, though... he's just "weak." The elders are constantly on his case about meeting attendance and that is how the conversation started... he was complaining about that. I saw an opportunity to talk to him about it.
  I told him that the lack of love is the main thing that bothers me--that it's an identifying mark, and I don't see it. He said the elders sometimes make mistakes, but that overall the love was still there. He said he truly feels a warm, loving feeling when he goes into the Hall. He said that when he makes the meetings he really enjoys them.
  I asked him what he enjoys about them--he said he really dislikes his life, having to work so hard to support his family, and the reminder of the promises God holds out, and the "spiritual food" that he needs that gives him a lift. When I said the constant repetition really bores me and makes it hard for me, he said that a lot of it is stuff he didn't remember and he really appreciates it.
  I asked him if he really thought the Society was God's Channel, his one Organization that He guides. He said... probably, because look at the org: It is ungreedy, it is so organized, it relies so heavily on the Bible, there is no other org like it, so it must be God's org.
  I asked him why he needs an org--he said God's always had one, and also because of the things I mentioned before--the things he gets out of going there. The reinforcement of the promises, the warm feeling, the "spiritual instruction." There was also a strong component of not being able to know right from wrong, i.e. not having a moral compass, and not staying on the straight and narrow, and also he'd never read the Bible if he didn't go.
  We argued for a while about whether God had an "organization" in the time of the Israelites. He maintains that the priesthood was a class that people looked to for guidance, based on the evidence of the people coming to Aaron to help build the calf, supposedly that was proof that the priests were leaders. He even said "they would go to the priests to get somebody stoned who needed it." I asked him for proof of that. I pointed out that there wasn't even a temple for like 400 years after they entered the promised land... When I backed him into a corner on that, he became angry and lashed out at me, saying I thought I was so much smarter than everyone else, that I don't believe in anything, that I argue everything in the Bible.
  In the end, I just went away very saddened and on the verge of despair. He is one of my very best friends, and to see him like that... and not be able to do anything for him... and to face the prospect of losing him.
  But what really left me numb was the fact that he's just like my wife. She is perhaps a bit "stronger" than he is, but their minds work a lot alike, and I was really hoping to get her out along with me. I love her very much. And while I think she'd probably stick with me if I "fell out," even if she "stayed in," because she's very loyal and we have a relatively good marriage... I was kind of using this conversation as a practice session. To see all of my reality-based arguments and things just go out the window... to see nothing work on this guy at all... to see the iron-solid strength of his faith, even when he's being harassed by his elders... it just brought me to despair as to whether I'd ever be able to help anyone, especially my wife, my dear wife.
  
  Sorry for the pathos. I just needed to vent.
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  32

  When Did You Start To S L O W Down In The "Truth"???

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  when you look back at it, what got you to slow down?

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  under_believer

  Easy--when I got publically reproved.
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  42

  Loss of Elders

  by metatron in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  large numbers of jw congregations are going to be trouble long before they lose their last elder to death or resignation.. most congregations i know have at least one - and often several - elders who can barely function at all, due to illness, old age.

  or just plain inability to accomplish anything.

  the society seems loathe to remove these men, despite their 'elder in name only'.

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  under_believer

  Gary yeah right. Changing the power structure in any meaningful way would be like sprinking snail-death into the watchtower's wheaties. They depend on the patriarchy, it's central.
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  45

  Brooklyn reorganization tied to "Deliverance at Hand" District Convention?

  by truthseeker in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  a few days ago, someone posted an email that was sent by a sister in bethel.. a follow up post gives some more info on the reorganization in brooklyn bethel and the district convention theme.. any comments?.

  http://e-jehovahs-witnesses.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=1247&st=0.

  the brooklyn move is fascinating, to be sure.. .

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  under_believer

  I'm a product of lifelong cult programming. To this day, to this very day, to this SECOND, even though my rational mind tells me that we've been through this before--many times--I still feel a twinge of anxiety whenever I hear these pronouncements. These "this is it, brothers! The end is here NOW!" messages. I feel like rushing back into the fold, to being a freshly-scrubbed, smiling, glassy-eyed Witness who does the whole nine yards and sells my house and quits my job and preaches the good news in the few remaining months or (gasp) years left. I have a feeling I will live with that Pavlovian response until the day I die.
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  19

  JWs celebrating their 40th birthday?

  by M.J. in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  .

  i heard that its common for jws in a certain congregation to make a big deal when someone turns 40--to the point that they actually throw a party.. is this something that happens out there?.

  i just thought it sounded pretty odd.

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  under_believer

  Not to my knowledge, no.
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  61

  Bethel Downsizing Spin

  by Cellist in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  there's an article on e-watchman giving the latest spin.

  i don't know how to cut and paste, but i hope everyone goes and checks it out.

  it is truly nauseating.

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  under_believer

  I had the same thought as metatron--wouldn't the recent victory an ex-Bethelite had on a worker's comp claim have a lot to do with this? The Society has always had a real scorched earth policy with things like that--"FINE! You're gonna make us follow the same rules as all the other companies? Then we'll send everyone home so you can't tell us what to do. Nyah-nyah!"
  Edit: Here's that worker's comp article: http://www.nydailynews.com/boroughs/story/380379p-323000c.html
  Edit: Reading further, think about the huge increase in insurance Bethel would have to carry on all those workers... I am leaning more and more towards this being about that ruling than about anything else.