Posts by detective

44

Thought Experiments and Bill Bowen

by HildaBingen in

jw
friends

i once had a friend who had racial epithets hurled at her by a white man.

he was not the only one who showed himself to be a racist.

she also went to get a job at a huge prominent corporation in a prosperous country and she did not get the job because she was a certain color.

detective

Hilda says:

And the WT is not trying to protect itself. It loves children and has a policy designed to protect children.

Which policy is that? Requiring two witnesses to pedophilia or warning children that they might be comtting slander if they can't produce two witnesses? Which policy, Hilda?

Hilda continues:

Those who molest children in the WT are punished.

Really? Punished how? No microphone privledges? Woohoo! That'll solve the problem. Or punished by expulsion? As a "worldly" person, why do you think I should find that impressive? Hmmm? Do you think it comforts me to know that the watchtower protected it's own ass by expelling someone yet leaves them undetected among the "worldlies"?

Screw you, Hilda.

27

Please post ALL Links to papers carrying the story

by Venice in

jw
friends

http://www.kgoam810.com/complexshowdj.asp?djid=3284.

http://www.cnn.com/2002/us/05/09/jehovah.witnesses.ap/index.html.

http://www.courier-journal.com/localnews/2002/05/08/ke050802s203205.htm.

detective

I'd love to see this in the Boston papers but with our current Catholic pedophilia scandal, I'm not sure it'd get picked up.

If you want to give it a try, here are some contacts for people to email/fax:

The Boston Globe:

[email protected]

"news tip from extranet" should be your email header.

For the Boston Herald:

[email protected]
Tips or comments call
(617) 619-6789

The Christian Science Monitor:

The newsroom address and phone number:
The Christian Science Monitor
1 Norway Street
Boston, MA 02115
617.450.7034
To send a letter to the editor, email [email protected] <mailto: [email protected]>

The Boston Phoenix:

Please send letters to the editor, press releases, and article commentary to [email protected] <mailto: [email protected]>

29

Is Anything Worth Dying For?

by HildaBingen in

jw
friends

i often hear people here talk about the horrible jw willingness to die for blood transfusions.

maybe jws are mistaken when it comes to the bt issue; maybe not.

however i wonder if there is anything that is really worth dying for in this life.. for me, to live is christ and to die is gain.

detective

Meanwhile, Clement Samabona, spokesman of the Jehovah Witnesses' Watch Tower Society in Zambia said the refusal by the
parents to consent to blood transfusion was their personal belief and not that of the Church.

Lying is fun! (Liability is not)

23

Hey all I invite you to a little experiment.......

by JPandelo in

jw
friends

as i am sure most of you know my parents were told they were to be disfellowshipped by roger eisenhuth and steve stripling over the telephone today.

yes we know they were disfellowshipped for apostasy however, is'nt it curious that they were not provided an explanation for how the elder body came to their decision.

i personally think that it is something that is truly deserving of an answer.

detective

Question: while it's not appropriate to name names, would it be okay for Mr. pandelo to give out the mailing address of the congregation. Isn't that public record?

I'm not interested in starting any unnecessary troubles beyond words of complaint, however it would seem that letters of protest could be mailed- better yet- postcards could be mailed to the kingdom hall. I seem to recall someone mentioning post sept. 11th/anthrax attacks that postcards would be a good option. I tend to agree.

27

Mothers Day - is it celebrated?

by scammer68 in

can someone pls help.

is mothers day (& fathers day) celebrated by the jw's?

if it is not, can you provide a scriptural reason for the decision.

detective

The bible says you should honor your mother and father. Why is the watchtower telling you NOT to honor your mother (or father)one day a year? Must be something in the special invisible footnotes that only true believers can see?

7

JW friends- Who am I talking to and what do I say?

by detective in

jw
friends

dungbeetle said this in another thread and i thought it could prove helpful to those that are still in contact with jw friends and relatives.. jw's defense of the watchtower is merely a thinly disguised effort to defend themselves personally.

recognizing this defense mechanism for what it is will be a first important step to breaking down these psychologically harmful barriers.. i was thinking that perhaps we could talk about how we speak to jw friends and, even more important, how they speak to us.

i found dungbeetle's very insightful.

detective

I found Steve Hassan's books really quite helpful. The questioning calm approach is great. Not always easy though! I've been talked at as opposed to being talked to, on a number of occasions.

In my friend's case, I'm pretty sure I was tuned out regularly. Very flattering, I know! However, there were a couple of occasions where I could see that I had just short-circuited the programming and things really got interesting.

In one case, i read quotes from the organization and substituted racial groups for the word "worldly people". Yikes! You should have seen the response that got...momentarily. After snatching the paper out of my hands and reading it frantically he relaxed after realizing they were only insulting "worldly" people and not blacks/hispanics/asians. The funny thing is that I had warned him I was going to do it before I did it, but since he had tuned me out, he was shocked when I put those quotes in different terms. So, I momentarily had the real person, but he quickly retreated back into the mindset of the follower.

I've also dropped some basic biblical history into conversation. Usually it got no response but I don't think it went unnoticed entirely. For example, I casually said something about how common the bible is and can you believe we know so little about the guy who put it together in the form it's in today. I wonder how he picked which books go where and if anything was left out...?

I know that my talking about how the society tells you what to think, which I mentioned months ago, obviously hit home because he kept insisting on how it was his own knowledge and his own thoughts and so forth.

Ultimately, I've run into more walls than not with my friend. I'm not in a good place with him and I'm...tired. Worn out. And I don't know if I'm going to keep trying to reach my friend or not. I don't know anymore.

But I thought it would be good to talk about what derails conversation and what encourages it because it can be helpful to others who are still interacting with witnesses regularly.

Hassan talks about authentic personality and "cult" personality. I've seen both personalities during a single conversation and it was really quite a dramatic change. Anybody else seen this?

Dungbeetle- mail? Yay!!

7

JW friends- Who am I talking to and what do I say?

by detective in

jw
friends

dungbeetle said this in another thread and i thought it could prove helpful to those that are still in contact with jw friends and relatives.. jw's defense of the watchtower is merely a thinly disguised effort to defend themselves personally.

recognizing this defense mechanism for what it is will be a first important step to breaking down these psychologically harmful barriers.. i was thinking that perhaps we could talk about how we speak to jw friends and, even more important, how they speak to us.

i found dungbeetle's very insightful.

detective

Dungbeetle said this in another thread and I thought it could prove helpful to those that are still in contact with JW friends and relatives.

JW's defense of the Watchtower is merely a thinly disguised effort to defend THEMSELVES PERSONALLY.
Recognizing this defense mechanism for WHAT IT IS will be a first important step to breaking down these psychologically harmful barriers.

I was thinking that perhaps we could talk about how we speak to JW friends and, even more important, how they speak to us. I found dungbeetle's very insightful. She recognizes a psychological barrier. What other types of psychological barriers or coping techniques have people encountered when talking with witnesess?

What kept the conversation rolling?
What killed it? (and what did you do to side-step potential conversation killers?)

19

Silentlambs:Response from JW re: pedophile issue:

by stocwach in

jw
friends

here is a response from a dub whom i emailed the press link from the courier journal yesterday (i will be meeting with him in a couple weeks, so any comments/rebuttals from you would be greatly appreciated):.

"wasn't dateline successfully sued by gm for their doctored report on the (as.

dateline called it the exploding gm pick-up truck controversy) fuel tank.

detective

Two points:

Jws excommunicate when they find someone "guilty". So, after finding someone "guilty" and throwing them out, are they then notifying the police to ensure that other innocent children don't have to suffer (yes, even non-jw children- the horrors!) Or is it more of an apathetic, "it's not our problem anymore" kind of approach? How should someone like me, who is a "worldly one", to understand the JW "loving" concern for me as they hand me magazines with the same group of people who will kick out say, my next door neighbor for pedophilia, and not call the police? Where is the love there? What are the priorities?

Additionally, tell your friend not to worry about any incorrect information on dateline. Surely, the sociaty will sue dateline (and win!) if dateline slanders them. Has the watchtower ever backed away from a lawsuit when they actually believed they might win?

31

An Un-Invitation Card

by ozziepost in

"do witnesses break up families?

" has been a common topic over the years.

this topic has been brought home to mrs ozzie and i by the following 'un-invitation card'.

detective

Tell me you'll be withdrawing your wedding gift, right?

That's just wrong. Really wrong.

I'm sorry people have to go through that. I'm sorry Ozzie & Mrs. Ozzie. You deserve better treatment than that.

7

ONE MORE TIME [for a good laugh]

by SoulJah in

jw
friends

detective

YIKES!!! I think I know who this guy is!! If it is who I think it is, well, he's a nice enough guy. You ever wonder how much of these ads are true and how much are embellishments? Well, since it's more than likely the person I'm thinking it is, you can rest assured that some embellishment has occurred in this ad! Hint: working for himself= unemployed w/occasional odd jobs. I could say more but I'm shutting up now.

Weird, you don't usually know the people in the ads!!
___________________________________

Hi!

My name is YourPrince . I am a 28 years young brother.
I live in Boston, Massachusetts. I'm looking for a partner all over the world!

A little about me:
I serve as Publisher .
My family status is never married. My ethnic background is bi/multiracial .
Children? No kids . Want children? Not yet .
My look? Height: 5'9" - (175cm) , Build: athletic . My friends say I look attractive.
My occupation is: landscaper/electric .
I speak English .
My last activity on the system was on 5-5-2002 EST. (mm-dd-yyyy)

More about me:

HERE I AM...KNOW ME! As I begin, I'm learning that this is a lot harder than I thought!!! However,from Genesis to Revelation, this is me in a nutshell. I realize that it's long, and I probably should leave a little mystery,but I am honest and I want to give you a little taste of who I am.Because of the length,let me first thank you for taking the time to learn a little about me.... As far as my background is concerned, I was raised in the truth. My parents started studying with Jehovah's witnesses, when I was just a baby. I was baptized May 28th 1989 when I was 15. In September of 2000,I accomplished my goal of becoming a regular pioneer,and attended pioneer school last August.Unfortunately, I had to step aside (for now)due to losing my computer job to this terrible economy.I am now working for myself, but have to work full time until my circumstances change. As far as personality goes, I am definitely a unique person. Don't let that scare you...I say this only because you won't find someone more versatile or flexible. I enjoy so many different things. This is mainly because I was raised from 2 completely different cultures, which molded me into the man I am today. My mother is Italian, and my father a is light skin African American man. So yes, I am half black/half Italian which makes for an interesting combination. (Though I tan well in the sun, I was robbed of having nice dark skin,since my father is so light, so most people just think that I am Italian) Both cultures are really dear to me, and I've taken the best parts of both worlds. Thanks to dad's side, I've got the rhythm. Thanks to mom's side,I discovered food!(I'm getting hungry just thinking about Italian food) I'd have to say that there is every man inside of me. My goal is to be balanced as an individual. I strive to be spiritually minded, yet not over-rightous; strong,but not cold; sensitive, yet not feminine. I love to laugh and have a great sense of humor, yet I also know when to be serious, and I respect those times. I'm happy being active, or just curling up with a blanket by the fireplace, sipping tea or cappucino. Let's see...What else? Well, I've lived in the city my whole life,along the coast of the Atlantic Ocean and I enjoy the benefits of a city, such as the theater and concerts and symphonies, but I feel that I'm a country boy at heart. I LOVE nature and enjoy camping,hiking,skiing,rollerblading,and cycling. As someone who took gymnastics for 4 years, I love staying in shape, and being healthy. One of my favorite ways to exercise is to DANCE!!! I can't stress to you, just how much I love to dance. I've had all kinds of ballroom dance lessons, but Salsa and Swing Dancing are my favorites! If I were married, then I'd have to say that the Tango would be, but until then, I won't be doing too much of the Argentine tango. To me, there is nothing that can relieve stress, like dancing. Music too,is one of my greatest passions. I love ALL kinds. I can't just listen to one type, but I enjoy different types such as classical,r&b, jazz,rock,techno,and even a small amount of country. (haha) If you haven't noticed by now, I enjoy writing, especially poetry. (I'm looking for some new motivation for a poem,perhaps one might be about you)-haha! Well that describes my interests. If I had to choose 5 qualities to best describe who I am then these would be the one's I would choose: 1. God-fearing 2. passionate 3.helpless-romantic 4. honest 5.hard-working As far as my goals are concerned, I want but one thing only.That is to serve Jehovah wholeheartedly, being used in any capacity that I can. Whether it be me pioneering again,international construction,or Bethel service, I want to have the right motive,and just do all that I can in this limited time that we have left in this system. If it's Jehovah's will, I hope to have someone that I love,adore,and who's my best friend beside me,doing all we can to finally see what the "real Life" has to offer. As much as I may dream though, and how unnatural it may feel to be single, I'd rather be single and lonely, than to be married to the wrong person. If I only wanted to be married, I could've been married a long time ago! I am not looking just to be married, but am just waiting patiently for the one who will steal my heart,body,and soul. Who is she?, you ask. Look Below ;)