I recently attended a Sunday morning Catholic service. I'm basically non-theist, but what the hey. Yes, the rituals are different from those in a KH, but I would hardly classify them as sterile or uninteresting by comparison.
If anything, I would suggest that much of the recent growth in Spanish speaking congregations may be due to a lack of Catholic churches in areas where Hispanic immigrants have found work. I used to live in a southern state north of Florida, probably near where sir82 lives, and the predominant religions are Protestant.
Some of the Protestant Churches have reached out to the immigrant Hispanic community, but few seem as organized as the Witnesses. I suspect that the Churches have better motivations than simply filling out time slips at the end of the month.
Dave
PrimateDave
JoinedPosts by PrimateDave
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19
Why are the Spanish speaking congregations apparently doing well in the US?
by ThomasCovenant inlast time i looked at the annual society statistics it seemed obvious to me that the more 'developed' countries were recording stagnant or negative growth.. possibly a more educated and more affluent society together with freely available information via media and the internet can explain some of this.. why then are the latin american countries and particularly spanish speaking american's going for the watchtower.
from what little i know i wouldn't class these groups as 'backward' or third world.. any ideas?
is is just the ex catholic community?.
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PrimateDave
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10
The Greatest Story Ever Told?
by LouBelle inthe witnesses and christians would say it was the story of christ.
all religions i'm sure would point to their specific redemption story.
for me, i'd have to go with indiana jones, star wars or lord of the rings: so much excitement, villans, heros, a lil magik.
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PrimateDave
Another vote for Lord of the Rings which I read completely several years ago.
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75
What is the best state to live in in America?
by oompa inesp.
interested to hear from any who have traveled or moved around a bunch....i am talking climate, nearness to mountains or beach or both, cost of living, etc.....as much as i love what california has to offer naturewise, the natural disasters and cost of living there bum me out....since i like mountains and beach, a climate a little less hot than florida.... i lean toward virginia straight south down through georgia, so both carolinas too.
maybe maryland too, but the further north you go, the colder the water and worse the winter, but still the new england coastal states are incredible........oompa.
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PrimateDave
I have been in Puerto Rico for the past three years. There are many nice things about the island and its people. However, you really do need to have a good understanding of Spanish to get by, especially if you want to work. On the plus side, you can live pretty economically if you are on a budget. Of course, you get that "road to nowhere" feeling here too, just like Hawaii.
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40
New Star Trek Trailer
by [email protected] inwhat are your thoughts??.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbqyjrrge4c
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PrimateDave
I look forward to watching it. As much as I have enjoyed all the older series and movies, Star Trek could use some new blood and a new look.
Dave -
60
Gas @ $2.50 a gallon
by wha happened? ina month ago i read that gas might hit $2.50 a gallon.
i laughed.
well super is now 2.49 in los angeles.
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PrimateDave
Just paid 54.7 cents/liter today ($2.07/US gal.). I will enjoy it while it lasts.
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10
Headline: "Iraq War Ends" - New York Times
by PrimateDave inthe new york times saturday, july 4, 2009. .
troops to return immediately.
by jude shinbin.
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PrimateDave
On page two of the New York Times Special Edition under the heading "Corrections: For the Record," among other topics:
Portraits of Grief
From September 14 to December
31, 2001, the New York Times
published “Portraits of Grief,”
daily obituaries of the victims of
the September 11 attacks. We are
proud of this coverage, which
won several awards. Tomorrow,
the Times begins part two of the
series with obituaries of the civilians
and soldiers killed between
2001 and today in Afghanistan
and Iraq. Two soldiers, and one
hundred civilians, will be very
briefly memorialized each day,
adding a full fold-out page to each
edition. The series will continue
for thirty years. (Estimates of the
number of Iraqis who have died
violent deaths since the 2003
invasion vary from 100,000 to
well over one million. The Times
apologizes for consistently using
only the low end of this spectrum
of estimates.)
From page 8:USA Patriot Act Repealed
Eight years after being enacted,
and three years after being reauthorized,
the controversial USA
Patriot Act was repealed by Congress
by a vote of 99 to 1 in the
Senate and 520 to 18 in the House.
No fanfare greeted the repeal in
either house. Absent were the 40-
minute speeches and foam-core
charts predicting Armageddon.
The act was repealed with a simple
vote cast late in the day by a
Congress ashamed of what it had
done and what the Act had meant
for Americans.
In related news, Congress yesterday
repealed the Animal Enterprise
Terrorism Act and agreed to
permanently shelve the Violent
Radicalization and Homegrown
Terrorism Prevention Act. “These
acts were worded in such a way
that they could be interpreted to
equate political dissent with terrorism.
In any case none of these
bills did a thing to protect Americans,”
said Speaker of the House
Nancy Pelosi. -
10
Headline: "Iraq War Ends" - New York Times
by PrimateDave inthe new york times saturday, july 4, 2009. .
troops to return immediately.
by jude shinbin.
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PrimateDave
Um, I guess nobody is actually reading this 'paper'. Well, if you like what we've got; a morally, politically, and economically bankrupt system; then more of it you shall have.
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10
Headline: "Iraq War Ends" - New York Times
by PrimateDave inthe new york times saturday, july 4, 2009. .
troops to return immediately.
by jude shinbin.
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PrimateDave
The New York Times Saturday, July 4, 2009
Troops to Return Immediately
By JUDE SHINBIN
WASHINGTON — Operation
Iraqi Freedom and Operation Enduring
Freedom were brought to
an unceremonious close today
with a quiet announcement by the
Department of Defense that troops
would be home within weeks.
“This is the best face we can put
on the most unfortunate adventure
in modern American history,”
Defense spokesman Kevin Sites
said at a special joint session of
Congress. “Today, we can finally
enjoy peace — not the peace of
the brave, perhaps, but at least
peace.”
Complete article available here
Other front page news:
"Nation Sets Its Sights on Building Sane Economy"
"Maximum Wage Law Succeeds: Salary Caps Will Help Stabilize Economy"
"USA Patriot Act Repealed"
"Gitmo, Other Centers Closed"
"Bush to Face Charges"
Get the complete PDF here.
Dave
P.S. Please note that this New York Times is a spoof. As good as it may make you feel to read the articles in it, in reality nothing has changed...
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193
Deceptive or just wrong?
by johnnyc ini have been virtually non-stop studying everything i can get my hands on with regards the wtbts, and "apostate" literature and information.
in all honesty, 80% at least is non-sense and over critical.
however, i do find about 20% (if i have to create a percentage reference) is appropriate in its line of reasoning and questioning.
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PrimateDave
I have been virtually non-stop studying everything I can get my hands on with regards the WTBTS, and "apostate" literature and information.
I was never curious about the "apostate" books that argued doctrine. I was only interested in whether the Bible was the Word of God that it claimed to be. That didn't require "apostate" literature. The only "apostate" book of any relevance in my opinion was Crisis of Conscience by Ray Franz. While he touched on doctrinal points, the biggest service he did with this book was to demystify the Governing Body in the minds of doubting Witnesses.
In all honesty, 80% at least is non-sense and over critical.
That is why I don't bother with all the "apostates" who argue doctrine as if the Bible actually is divinely inspired.
However, I do find about 20% (if I have to create a percentage reference) is appropriate in its line of reasoning and questioning. Of that 20%, a good portion is based upon "failed prophecy" - 1879, 1914, 1925, 1975 etc.
It was rather eye opening to finally consider the basis for so many of these dates: numerology based on convoluted pyramid measurements and inaccurate historical reference dates.
The problem with much of what I read is the conclusion which the information is trying to promote - namely, the WTBTS is deceptive or fraudulent in its claims.
This is a question I have wondered about: Did they knowingly promote fraud? I have to say that I don't believe that they did. I think that the self deception runs all the way to the top, or at least it did until relatively recently. I think that if there had been an overarching conspiracy to deceive, then Ray Franz would have exposed it. What he did expose was a very human mindset that would use intellectually dishonest methods to achieve certain ends. Their dishonesty has been exposed countless times, but intellectual dishonesty and logical fallacies are not unique to the Watchtower Society. For example, most of their creationist claims are borrowed directly from Christian creationist literature which is full of inaccurate statements and quotes taken out of context to try to prove points. Such dishonest methods are deemed necessary because the end is considered more important than the means: saving people from God's wrath.
However, what does the WTBTS gain in promoting such dates as possible conclusions to this system, if they are known to be untruthful representations? After all, it is much more of an embarrassment when these dates come and go without event, and has had a much more negative effect on organization membership numbers....thereby working against what it would seemingly be trying to do - increase membership.
It is quite probable that after the embarrassment of 1975, they resolved to never again promote a date as such. Even so, I think even the leadership in Brooklyn had their hopes up for the End to come in that year.
If anyone has a legal mind here, as you well know, to prove fraud you must prove motive and improper gain in an action. Where does the WTBTS gain in a failed expectation?
Nothing.
From what I can see, they loose memberships and are left way worse than if they never said anything at all. In fact, you could say that when they make such predictions, the motive could only be that they honestly believe such.
Yes.
Unlike Mormons (Joseph Smith etc), the WTBTS has never claimed to be a "prophet". They only claim that they try to interpret prophecy left by others in the bible. Therefore, these dates should not ever be viewed as "prophecy's unfulfilled" but rather "failed interpretation". There is a huge difference between those statements.
Semantics. Really this is the least important thing you need to worry about. From my point of view, if the Bible is not the Inspired Word of a Supreme, Omnipotent Being, whose existence cannot be proven (extraordinary claims...), then who cares if the Watchtower Society is its prophet?
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35
Forget the Financial crisis; it will be the Eco Crisis that will kill us
by eyeslice inwe seems to me that world news has become totally dominated by the global financial crisis.
the world will be looking to obama when he takes office to see what he has planed to address the problems in the us housing, financial and automotive sectors.
it strikes me that as soon as we see the signs of impending financial hard times, our leaders jump to the rescue.
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PrimateDave
I'm pretty sure that one way or another humans will continue to push the limits of planetary systems. Oh, the planet will be just fine, and life will continue to adapt and evolve. However, the American Way Of Life As We Have Come To Know It won't go on. It was a one time deal, a culmination of fortuitous historical circumstances that brought a portion of humanity to a level of comfort never before imagined.
It couldn't last. Back in the 1970s, the Limits to Growth were recognized. Unfortunately, "growth" is the supreme article of faith in the religion of Economics. It was only a matter of time before limits of any kind were out of vogue once again in the mainstream. See this article: Cassandra's curse: how "The Limits to Growth" was demonized. The limits never went away, they were just ignored for political expediency.
Yes, life will go on. It just won't be that wonderful "Star Trek" future that some of us envisioned at one time. There will be more pollution, more deserts, more premature death, more disease, less wealth, less security, less clean water, less food to go around, less energy to run what remains of civilization. I have heard some wonder what future generations will think of us and what we did to the planet. My answer is that they won't think of us. They will come into the world as they find it and try to make their lives the best that they can under whatever circumstances they live. In our arrogance we think we will be remembered for better or worse, but we won't be.
Dave