I know that that clicky one in Africa is one of the oldest, if not the oldest known language. It's interesting to see how language changes! Like english of old would be to the modern speaker like German is today.
Fun Fact! The African language Fula has FOURTEEN different tones. Comparitively I believe Vietnamese has nine.
By tones only does the Vietnamese da mean three different things
da "big toe"
da (frontwards accent) "nostalgic"
da (backwards accent) "shitty little monkey"
You could try to say my big toe is broken, but end up saying "my shitty little monkey is broken."
smellsgood
JoinedPosts by smellsgood
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19
WERE TONAL LANGUAGES ONLY SPOKEN JUST ATER BABEL?
by badboy inpeople who speak non-tonal languages are more likely to have a more recently evolve form of the genes aspm and microcephalin.. this raises an interesting idea.. possibly no non-tonal languages were spoken at the time of the towers of babel.. how would a jw explain?.
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smellsgood
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49
Why the Watchtower is NOT Christian
by smellsgood inwatchtower, feb. 15, 1983, p. 12. .
" john 6:40 watchtower style .
the watchtower; "12/1/1981, p. 27. .
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smellsgood
It's because they don't salute the flag!!! DUH!
I thought I'd bring this topic out of the "Who became a Christian thread" and make a thread of its own.
The fact of the matter is, the Watchtower as an organization, the professions and ultimately the entire structure of it amounts to something that cannot only be said to be NON-Christian, but if you take what the apostles and authors of the New Testament into consideration, the warped and self serving doctrines eschewed may very well be identified as ANTI-Christian. IN PLACE of the place accorded and afforded to this ONE PERSON in the NT, who is said in the gospels to be "the only Name given to men under heaven, by which we must be saved" the organization USURPS the role of Jesus as MEDIATOR between God and man as written in the Christian gospels, and sets THEMSELVES squarely, subtlely and blatantly in his place.
The grace that is mentioned by Paul, and if someone is to preach something other than this grace, Paul wrote
"I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— not that there is another gospel, but there are some who are confusing you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8But even if we or an angel from heaven should proclaim to you a gospel contrary to what we proclaimed to you, let that one be accursed! As we have said before, so now I repeat, if anyone proclaims to you a gospel contrary to what you received, let that one be accursed!"
What could be more contrary to the message of the gospels than nulling the grace, justification, atonement, mediatorship that the NT again and again tells us is given by Christ?
Does the Watchtower not put themselves in what the gospels proclaim to be Jesus' role? When Jesus is recorded as saying "It is finished" did he mean, er, "qualitatively"?
Did you guys in being practicing Witnesses NOT believe that you NEEDED to belong to Jehovah's Organization, to be on that "ark"? How can it be said that if you NEEDED to belong to the organization, as in the baptism "identifying with Jehovah's spirit-directed organization" that they were not setting themselves up as YOUR MEDIATOR between God and man?
It is not some doctrinal formula, some compendium of knowledge that one needs memorize and recite/observe. It is not inherently "Christian" to acknowledge the Bible as the work of God.* The New Testament is a gospel concerning a PERSON. How many ways has the WT used and changed scripture for its own purpose? Proverbs 4:18 anyone?
Jesus said:
*"You search the scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that testify on my behalf. Yet you refuse to come to me to have life." John 5:39
The fundamental revelation of the entirety of the New Testament can be reduced to this one scripture:
"For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life." John 3:16
The fact of the matter is, the defining and ultimate factor that is present in Christianity is that as the authors repeatedly and definitely revealed, was that CHRIST was crucified, buried and ressurrected, and the Christians believe that ONLY and EXCLUSIVELY through HIM is one atoned for, justified, saved. Through HIS SACRIFICE, and by his blood and name is man saved so they wrote:
"Who is to condemn? It is Christ Jesus, who died, yes, who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who indeed intercedes for us.Who will separate us from the love of Christ?"
Look through the NT gospels,,,how many times does it say that we need to be members of "Jehovah's Sprit directed organization?" Ok, now how many times does it say that through Christ alone is one saved? Does Jesus ever say that besides him there is one other thing between the Father and man?
Now, how many times, and how clear is the understanding of a Jehovah's Witness that he needs to identify with the org to be saved? Effectively nulling the gospels and Jesus' own words that HE exclusively and without qualification, is the only salvation "Nor is there salvation in ANY OTHER?"
Would Paul, Mark, Matthew, Luke, John, if they were around today, agree that given the fact that as they wrote, and as Jesus said "I am the way, the truth (the WT call ITSELF 'the truth!) and the life, no one comes to the Father EXCEPT THROUGH ME." Would they identify Jehovah's Witnesses as "Christian"? Can you tell me why?
Romans 5:8
"But God proves his love for us in that while we still were sinners Christ died for us. 9Much more surely then, now that we have been justified by his blood, will we be saved through him from the wrath of God. For if while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, much more surely, having been reconciled, will we be saved by his life. But more than that, we even boast in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation."
The bible sets Jesus up as the MEDIATOR between God and man, the Watchtower, as I've already said overtly teaches that Jesus is ONLY THE MEDIATOR for the 144k...who is allowed to partake of the emblems at the Memorial??? Then covertly, covertly, subtlely and outright teach in every other way that THE ORG IS THE MEDIATOR? How is this resemblant of the NT gospels? Do the gospels speak of Christ as a salvation discount, or the ultimate means of it?
To illustrate from the WT, although you all already have experience in the WT setting itself up as the Jehovah's Witness Mediator::
In the "What is required for salvation?" article...see if you can find this in the gospels::
Watchtower, Feb. 15, 1983, p. 12.
"A third requirement is that we be associated with God’s channel, his organization. God has always used an organization. For example, only those in the ark in Noah’s day survived the Flood, and only those associated with the Christian congregation in the first century had God’s favor. (Acts 4:12) Similarly, Jehovah is using only one organization today to accomplish his will. To receive everlasting life in the earthly Paradise we must identify that organization and serve God as part of it."
Jesus said:
"Anyone who does not honour the Son does not honour the Father who sent him. Very truly, I tell you, anyone who hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life, and does not come under judgement, but has passed from death to life." John 5:23
Now if *I* were to say that you had to identify with ME to receive everlasting life, would I not be taking Jesus' place??
The WT revised edition of Jesus words
"Anyone who does not honour the organization does not honor the Father, Jehovah. Very truthy I tell you, anyone who reads the Watchtower and Awake faithfully, identifies themselves with the Brooklyn based organization, follows all its rules and spreads the message of imminent armageddon (don't forget to fill out your hours) may or may NOT come under judgement, but has possibly passed from death to life." John 5:23 WT style
"This is indeed the will of my Father, that all who see the Son and believe in him may have eternal life; and I will raise them up on the last day." John 6:40
The WT revised edition of Jesus words
"This is indeed the will of my Father, that all who see the Son and believe in him and identify and associate with Jehovah's earthly organization, go door to door, and spread the news that I invisibly became the head of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Socity in 1918/1919, may OR MAY NOT have eternal life *on paradise earth; and I will raise them up on the last day." John 6:40 Watchtower style
"No matter where we may live on earth, God's Word continues to serve as a light to our path and a lamp to our roadway as to our conduct and beliefs. (Ps. 119:105) But Jehovah God has also provided his visible organization, his "faithful and discreet slave," made up of spirit anointed ones, to help Christians in all nations to understand and apply properly the Bible in their lives. Unless we are in touch with this channel of communication that God is using, we will not progress along the road to life, no matter how much Bible reading we do. The Watchtower; "12/1/1981, p. 27.
"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God— not the result of works, so that no one may boast." Ephesians 2:8
WT revised version
"For by the Watchtower, Jehovah's visible organization, you have been saved, through door to door work and legalism, it is a gift from Brookly, the result of never ending "do more" and gaining knowledge and works, be prepared to boast" Ephesians 2:8 WT style
"Make haste to identify the visible theocratic organization of God that represents his king, Jesus Christ. It is essential for life. Doing so, be complete in accepting its every aspect." The Watchtower, October 1, 1967, p. 591.
"We cannot claim to love God, yet deny his word and channel of communication." The Watchtower, October 1, 1967, p. 591.
"Do not conclude that there are different roads, or ways, that you can follow to gain life in God's new system. There is only one. There was just one ark that survived the Flood, not a number of boats. And there will be only one organization?God's visible organization ? that will survive the fast-approaching "great tribulation." It is simply not true that all religions lead to the same goal... You must be part of Jehovah's organization, doing God's will, in order to receive his blessing of everlasting life..."
You Can live Forever(1982, 1990) p.255
So, it is not the bible that you need, you wouldn't understand it without the interpretation of the WT. See if you can find that in the testament of Christ.
Jesus said:
"I am the gate. Whoever enters by me will be saved, and will come in and go out and find pasture. The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly.
I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep." John 10:9
The WT revised version
"Jesus is the latch, we are the gate. Who ever belongs to our organization may be saved, and will delight in our spiritual banquet. We are here that you might have life on paradise earth, and still attend kingdom halls everlasting."
How many ways does the gospel writers say "Christ, Christ alone, by him, through him, according to his mercy, the blood of Christ"
The Gospel is this "that Him crucified and on the third day rose again"
Ultimately, it is the fact that they teach that the "sacrifice of Christ" wasn't enough. You need more. The Watchtower is your mediator. The whole point of the NT is not a set of what's, it is an objective book, testifying about the person Christ and what he did. It is paramount therefore, that Christ is the object and saviour in identifying "Christianity" it IS THE WHOLE IDENTITY. In the light of the gospel account, can the Watchtower usurping Christs sacrifice and place between "God and Man" be considered anything but 'Anti-Christian'?
http://www.freeminds.org/doctrine/slvation.htm
Any group, which usually happens to be a cult that has all sociological marks, no matter what it teaches about the nature of God, the afterlife, what you ought to do, what you shouldn't do, etc. That is secondary to whether or not that group puts itself in the place of Christ (extra-Christ) truly and scholarly not be called "Christian." The test if Christ is not your MEDIATOR in said religion, it is not Christian. You can demonstrate this best through the readily available testament of Christ. -
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Jehovah's Witnesses turned Christian....Post Here
by R.F. ini would like those of you former jws turned christian to post here.
specific denominations can be mentioned.
i'd just like to get an idea of how many of you there are.
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smellsgood
frankie,
The cults such as the Watch Tower and Mormonism in the Christian vein, cannot once even glanced at be called Christian. They are like a whole different animal. The reason one doesn't call a meer cat a blue whale, well, there are quite obvious and gaping differences. There are characteristics of each wherein you can classify their genus, kingdom, species, etc.
Now, just to make this simple, what you will find the consesus of all those who have studied Christianity as a practitioner or observer will tell you, there is one supreme defining thread and the whole point of Christianity. Without it, there is no Christianity, its simply that Jesus died for your sins, and IS YOUR MEDIATOR
The Jehovah's Witnesses teach overtly that Jesus is ONLY the MEDIATOR of the 144k, and overtly, covertly, and in every other way, that you MUST BELONG TO THEIR ORGANIZATION, GO THROUGH ALL THEIR HOOPS TO BE SAVED. That is the defining reason why they truly and ultimately canNOT be considered a "Christian" religion, although, there are many many other reasons. That is the most pivotal though. :) -
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Letter to mom
by dawg insent a letter to mom 4 days ago, came back today stamped "returned" on it... she wouldn't even open it... it had some nice comments in it too.
stupid blanking cult, blinds the eyes of folks so they won't even read what we have to say.
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smellsgood
I'm terribly sad to hear that Dawg! I'd be sooooo sad if my Mom didn't speak to me.
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New Tract Campaign for DC
by Dagney incan anybody scan a copy of the cover?.
i was told there is a creepy picture of jesus on the cover.
was wondering.. tia if you can.. d.
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smellsgood
I didn't know Jesus got his portraits done at Sears. He looks like he's trying to sell something. All Watchtower art is beyond creepy to me.
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why dont witnesses celebrate xmas, etc
by aussie ini have asked this question but it hasnt really been answered for me, so why do they not celebrate xmas, birthdays, etc.
sorry if its been asked but still curious, dont really understand.. .
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smellsgood
Everything they do in my opinion, is to set up a straw man false religion to knock down and fly their magical doctrinal formulaic truth flag.
Christmas was a supplatation of a holiday that fell around Winter Solstice, when the sun disappears three days and rises I believe. It's ridiculous to say it was Christianity morphing with paganism.
That's like saying that a worship service that is distinctly Christian but is performed in a former pagan temple (as has been done) is a combining of Christianity and paganism. It is a replacing, a supplanting of the former. Besides, what could be more poetic, the sun rising after three days....the Son rising after three days...I think that's how they would've seen it.
The WT loves to say so many things about Christendom are pagan. They are lying to suit their own purposes. For God's sake, burning incense and altars was something that happened in pagan worship. It also happened in Jewish worship. Does the fact that something is similar mean automatically that it was borrowed? There are many historical examples that we can say definitely no. They don't scratch out the incense burning in the OT because pagans did it too. Morons. -
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Never a JW, what makes you post here?
by Mrs Smith inin some of the post i read, people say that they have never been a jw.
what makes them post on this forum?
my only guess would be because they have family or friends that are.. .
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smellsgood
I would add that I love the people on the board, I get all teary at alot of things, and feel a great need for justice in Witdom. There are very important things to learn from a doctrinal standpoint, but since I am operating 'a priori' the fact that I can come on here, and see all the madness played out in real peoples lives is like another piece of the puzzle. It's confirmation, it's touching and gripping, and entertaining (weird door to door stories) and this board is one of the most lively I've ever encountered...so why not? I feel like I've majored in WTism for the last 5 years...I want an honorary degree!
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Never a JW, what makes you post here?
by Mrs Smith inin some of the post i read, people say that they have never been a jw.
what makes them post on this forum?
my only guess would be because they have family or friends that are.. .
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smellsgood
Hello Mrs. Smith,
Yeah, I'm a never been a JW.
Well, in my case your guess would be wrong...I have absolutely ZERO family, immediate, extended, or ancestors that have been Jehovah's Witnesses. I've been reading this board for years, and been quite fascinated with everything Watch Tower. I think it strikes a chord with me. I had a close friend in highschool who is a JW, but she never brought it up, she was just a great very cool girl. I also met someone who was a JW, and since I had the internet, I googled JW, and I was taken aback. So, when I tried to talk about it to this person, they told me "no more contact." Anyways, it's a fascinating religion really, I'm interested in all cults, particularly in the Christian vein, but most especially JW's. -
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The Underbelly is exposed...........
by AK - Jeff inwhat proactive things have you done [or intend to do] to warn others about the cult you have escaped?
the unfortunate fact of life is that we tend to look only at our own personal benefits from leaving the cult if not careful.
or we give up after a failed attempt.
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smellsgood
I'm always thinking of things to do....but the logistics sort of run a muck.
I was thinking it would be fantastic for former witnesses to put their door to door experience to REALLY good use and do an anti-witness from door to door. Imagine, householders not being asked "are you worried about world conditions" but "how many times have JW's annoyed you over the years?" and then whatevah. I dunno, I make my own freeminds.org shirt around. I get asked about it, and talk about witnesses, though the common person does not usually share my type of interest/passion for it. :) -
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"But he wasn't a REAL Christian!"
by FireNBandits injimmy swaggert (a "swaggert" is a swaggering braggart btw), jim and tammy fakker, or any well-known christian that "blows it" big-time in a public way is sure to elicit that response from the fundagelicals around you.
"but he wasn't a real christian!
" what a convenient psychological device to keep ones fantasy image of ones religion intact!
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smellsgood
Martin, You're older than my Dad !! :) But, unlike him, at least you still HAVE some hair to bleach! It's ok, I bleach mine too. And I swear I'm not trying to stroke your ego (I am vehemently opposed to doing it with guys...it always seems they think the world of themself already) but, honestly I thought by looking at your teensy avatar photo that you were 24-25. I'm shocked! You must have been a hottie! You're welcome.