Posts by smellsgood

24

Plain Truth

by mrsjones5 in

i have a free subscription to a christian mag by the name of "plain truth".

the july/august issue has an article about the borg in it called "trapped in the watchtower.

pretty good.

Hey Gopher!

I know about their turnabout, one of the most startling things of any cult ever. I like the WWCOG history, because there was sooooo many similarities to WTBTS. I was reading this one long site about it the other day, and it seems that some do still cling to the old legalism, I was surprised. You know, having to identify HWA as Elijah and whatnot... still, they did drop most of their bunk after HWA and Garner Teddy died....

19

What Lakes Do You Play At?

by smellsgood in

jw
friends

this weekend i'm headed to priest lake in idaho...my family has a cabin up there and i've gone there my whole life.

i'm obsessed with picking huckleberries, which are my most favorite berries.

huckleberry pie is wicked tasty.

smellsgood

This weekend I'm headed to Priest Lake in Idaho...my family has a cabin up there and I've gone there my whole life. I'm obsessed with picking huckleberries, which are my most favorite berries. Huckleberry pie is wicked tasty. Plus there's inevitably a Moose that you either nearly run over, or nearly runs over you. Although I do love Coeur d'Alene lake as well...I've always heard that Tom Cruise has a cabin there (??) So, which are your favorite Lakes?

http://www.priestlake.org/

56

Update: So I've been going to some meetings (and other things)

by WingCommander in

i've been absent from this board from some time, as i've been through alot the past few months.

firstly, my mother passed away after complications from her surgery.

so i've lost my entire family since 1999. i'm an only child.

smellsgood

Wing Commander,

I am so sorry to hear of you losing your Mother. Heavens knows my Mom is my rock, and I could not abide losing her in the next seven years before I'm thirty. I would feel lost and I can imagine your grief. I think from childhood its one of the scariest and most heartbraking thought; that of losing your Mother. I wish you the best.

I am rather astonished and it really hurts me though to know that you've gone back, however noncommittally to the WT in a way though. I can't understand what you are going through right now as I have my Mom, and am one of five. But it's just that I know what this org. truly is, and I don't believe that a false prophet and a false religion has anything good to offer you in a path to spirituality/God. I believe that you can believe in the resurrection etc. without ever going to another meeting ever again. I believe that you can have a relationship with God if you want without ever going to a meeting of a religion responsible for needless deaths, ruined families, and child abuse cover ups. I don't think that if there is a God who is good, that he would have anything to do with a religion like the WT. I'm not mad at you because I can't comprehend your grief and the trauma that you have endured. I don't think you should commit to anything when you've just been through such a shattering experience, you are sort of out to sea right now.

I do feel for you, it makes me cry sometimes even the thought of losing my Mom, and I worry for her health and safety alot. I hope you can get through it, and look at the WT with a clearer head down the line. I don't want you to get sucked back into the false promises and legalism of the pharasaical WT corporation. That would be a double tragedy.

smellsgood

91

FORGED (!?!?) ORIGINS of the NEW TESTAMENT (!?!?)

by Terry in

iii, p. 712).

vi, p. 137, pp.

cit., pp.

smellsgood

I'm not saying christanity, as a pagan religion, did not exist. I am saying that the so called holy books are a fabrication after the fact. It would be akin to me starting a new and improved religion with a steady flow of followers. Eventually, it takes off, but I'm no more holier than the shitty religion next to me.

smellsgood: What would motivate a number of people, apparently from the Jewish faith, to write up a fictional character and be devoted to that character with no benefit finanacially socially, or any other way to themselves? Was there no Peter? Was there no Paul? Is any of the NT at all based on any person who did exist? Historically, how did Jewish people regard paganism? Perhaps you can refer to the Hellenstic Jew Philo that was mentioned in your article, he wrote about the Jews in that time period in his encounters with Emporer Caligula.

15

FLUFF: Richie's Beach Trip Photos

by RichieRich in

jw
friends

i went to the beach last weekend, and it was a rather enjoyable time.

naturally i took tons of pictures, and went with friends who have the same inclination.. so, for your viewing pleasure and enjoyment, here's richie's beach trip.. driving down took about 4 hours, and after about 2, we had listened to every song we've ever liked, and played every road game we could remember.. .

after arriving, we got straight to the business of enjoying ourselves, and cameras stayed packed for the duration of the evening.

smellsgood

Awww, that's awesome, and we get to enjoy more of you Richie! and your body art too. That beach is rad, and I was all excited about going up to my dinky cabin this weekend, and you've spoiled it! You guys look all cute and friendly together, and you can tell that girl that smellsgood (not excluding yourself and the other dude of course) said she's a total hottie!

24

Plain Truth

by mrsjones5 in

i have a free subscription to a christian mag by the name of "plain truth".

the july/august issue has an article about the borg in it called "trapped in the watchtower.

pretty good.

smellsgood

OMG, Josie, that wouldn't be published by the Worldwide Church of God would it? Herbert W. Armstrong started a mag by that name back in the day...they were a cult too. I'm happy for WT articles that warn people wherever their source though.

91

FORGED (!?!?) ORIGINS of the NEW TESTAMENT (!?!?)

by Terry in

iii, p. 712).

vi, p. 137, pp.

cit., pp.

smellsgood

So, why did Christians just sprout up all of a sudden in the first century sinis? Can I have your opinion?

91

FORGED (!?!?) ORIGINS of the NEW TESTAMENT (!?!?)

by Terry in

iii, p. 712).

vi, p. 137, pp.

cit., pp.

smellsgood

sinis, I knew the focus would be on the Josephus bit, should have excluded it, I know it is viewed as spurious. That is the main point of the article, so exclude the Josephus passage and you still have outside sources. Philo was more of a philosopher, how many men did he single out and write about? I haven't read his writings, have you? I don't believe that he lived in Jerusalem as this article says, he was in Alexandria, a Hellenistic Jew.

Most histories we have in reference to Tacitus, he must have missed some of the other historians who have mentioned Jesus, have few MSS years between. Was the Iliad written by Homer? After the NT MSS, the Iliad is SECOND in the amount of manuscripts with 643 surviving. That demonstrates if that it is 2nd with that many, that other writings only go down from there. Shall we throw out all of our history as spurious?

8

Darin moving along in politics

by Junction-Guy in

jw
friends

i just got off the phone with my brother darin, and he told me that he went to an influential republican meeting last night in ohio.

darin is on the screening committee that chooses who the republican party will endorse in the upcoming elections.

he said it was very interesting, and got to see and hear alot.

smellsgood

Oh come on Dave,,, what about McCain? I find him to be one of the only non-sissy politicians, and he's gotten way more done politically than Fred! I pretty much despise most politicians because they are always trying to be everything to everyone, but McCain seems to me to have an honesty about him that is rare. I can say I respect him, can't say that of many politicians.

"As for smaller government Im all for it."

I'm for smaller government like I'm for a second slice of pie. Government has a very specific role, not an all consuming one. It should fascilitate and get out of the way mostly.

91

FORGED (!?!?) ORIGINS of the NEW TESTAMENT (!?!?)

by Terry in

iii, p. 712).

vi, p. 137, pp.

cit., pp.

smellsgood

If the NT is so accurate please give me a legitimate outside source that speaks of Jesus, the rabble rouser, that drew such large crowds to Jerusalem and was a thorn in Romes side?

smellsgood: sinis, you misunderstand the point I'm trying to make, I'm making the point that the NT has a startling amount of MSS at a very early date historically. That's just a fact, and that mere fact does not attest to the "accuracy" of its contents. However, there are outside sources that speak of Jesus, I'm surprised you don't know about that. I do believe that people who write articles like this like most of us are, but not to this extreme degree, heavily biased to gather information based on their beliefs. The disturbing thing is they promote their ill informed and views as end of the line non-refutable truth. I'm also surprised that they are so ill informed on a topic they are writing authoritatively about. What gets under my skin is not the debate about Christianity and if one believes or not, but someone spreading information ignorantly.

However, a legitimate outside source that speaks of Jesus? Is your stand then that Jesus was a mythical person constructed from various myths, a man, a myth unattested outside of the NT? No historicity to a person Yehoshua who lived in Palestine?

CORNELIUS TACITUS (born A.D. 52-54)

Roman Historian, 112 A.D. Governer of Asia, son-in-law of Julius Agricola. During the reign of Nero, Tacitus alluded to the death of Christ and Christians in Rome:

"But not all the relief that could come from man, not all the bounties that the prince could bestow, nor all the atonements which could be presented to the gods, availed to relieve Nero from the infamy of being believed to have ordered the conflagration, the fire of Rome. Hence to suppress the rumor, he falsely charged with the guilt and punished the Christians, who were hated for their enormities. Christus, the founder of the name, was put to death by Pontius Pilate, procurater of Judea, where the mischief originated, but through the city of Rome also." Annals XV.44

There is also mention of Jesus in a fragment of his Histories, having to do with the burning of the Jerusalem temple in A.D. 70, perserved by Sulpicius Severus (Chroni. ii. 30.6)

LUCIAN OF SAMOSATA

A satirist in the 2nd Century who was scornful of Christ and the Christians. He spoke of Christ as "...the man who was crucified in palestine because he introduced this new cult into the world....Furthermore, their first lawgiver persuaded them that they were all brothers one of another after they have transgressed once for all by denying the Greek gods and by worshipping that crucified sophist himself and living under his laws." The Passing Peregrinus

FLAVIUS JOSEPHUS

Jewish Historian, became a Pharisee at age 19; A.D. 66 he was commander of Jewish forces in Galilee. This is a contentius quotation, the arabic text is as follows:

"At this time there was a wise man who was called Jesus. And his conduct was good, and (He) was known to be virtuous. And many people from among the Jews and other nations became his disciples. Pilate condemned him to be crucified and to die. And those who had become his disciples did not abandon his discipleship. They reported that he had appeared to them three days after his crucifixion and that he was alive; accordingly, he was perhaps the Messiah concerning whom the prophets have recounted wonders."

Found in the Arabic manuscript entitled "Kitah Al-Unwan Al-Mukallal Bi-Fadail Al-Hikma Al-Mutawwaj Bi-Anwa Al-Falsafa Al-Mundah Bi-Haqaq Al-Marifa" or "Book of History Guided by All the Virtues of Wisdom. Crowned with Various Philosophies and Blessed by the Truth of Knowledge."

Josephus also spok of James, in Antifquities XX9:1

"But the younger Ananus who, as we said, received the high priesthood, was of bold disposition and exceptionally daring; he followed the party of the Sadducees, who are sever in judgement oabove all the Jews, as we have already shown. As therefore Ananus was of such a disposition, he thoughte he had now a good opportuninty, as assembled a coucil of judges, and brought before it the brother of Jesus the so-called Christ, whose name was James, together with some others, and having accused them as law-breakers, he delivered them over to be stoned."

SUETONIUS (A.D.120)

Roman historian, court official under Hadrian, annalist of the Imperial house

"As the Jewas were making constant disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus, he expelled them from Rome." also "Punishment by Nero was inflicted on the Christians, a class of men given to a new and mischievous superstition." Lives of the Caesars, 26.2

There is also

Plinius Secundus, Pliny the younger
Tertullian
Thallus
Phlegon, a 1st century historian
Letter of Mara Bar-Serapion
Justin Martyr

along with all the early Church fathers such as Polycarp who was a disciple of John the Apostle, and his students Irenaeus and Ignatius.

That's just history you know.