Posts by Pahpa

17

I think its time to move on....

by mama1119 in

jw
friends

from jwd.

it has helped me so much and i appreciate everyone sharing their stories.

i have read so many amazing posts with unbelievable research and thought put into them.

Pahpa

Mama

Good bye and good luck from Pahpa....haha

55

Are JW's a Cult?

by PinTail in

pintail

Thanks for the explanation. I can see that I'm one of the older participants on this site... I was never into Star Trek. And I'm not familiar with these words that substitute for others. Thanks for being patient with the lost generation between the "greatest" and the "baby boomers."

To throw in my opinion about JWs being a "cult.".... I don't believe it fits all definitions of a cult. Usually a cult will have a strong religious leader and will isolate itself literally from the public. However, it certainly does have a cult-like aspect to it. The Governing Body is viewed as a god. And the Watchtower Society has successfully alienated its members mentally from participating in the normal activities that others share. And it demands total loyalty from its members. It is a border-line cult-like sect.

27

War on religion some day?

by Spirit Axal in

i was just starting to think, they removed religion from schools and public areas and jobs.

whats next?

the removal of everyone who believes in god or some high power?

Pahpa

I think it is more likely that a substitute religion will be created that will demand loyalty to itself. It may be similar to the Roman emperor that demanded to be worshipped as a god and required all to acknowledge him upon the pain of death. Paul speaks of "the man of lawlessness" who will "oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshipped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple proclaiming himself to be God. (2 Thess. 2:4)

14

Who is the Slave?

by jeshurun in

who is the faithful and wise servant of matthew 24:45-47 ?

in his end time discourse jesus stressed his unexpected arrival for judgment.

by telling a range of parables, he impressed that teaching on the mind of his disciples.

Pahpa

jeshurun

Jesus certainly anticipated a following of both Jewish and Gentile believers as evidenced by his command "Therefore, go and make disciples of all nations...." His foreknowledge of events would have given him the insight of a "household" of a "master" that would have servants preparing for the "master's return." It is clear that the parable would include all within that household and specifically the "servant" who was in charge.

Doug

I have also wondered about the context of both Matthew and Luke respecting the parable. Not all the writers followed a chronological order. Or it may be that Jesus illustrated the same parable on different occasions. We simply don't know. Another example is Luke's two accounts of the coming of God's Kingdom. (Luke 17:20-37 in response to the Pharisees and Luke 21:5-31 in response to the disciples inquiry.)

5

God's Publishing house or not ?

by Handsome Dan in

many of us that have been out and any from this organization can now stand back and derive a clear picture of why this organization started and the reason it started.

interesting to note the people who started things off such as c.t.russell and his father j. russell both were business minded professionals who both must have certainly known the assets of .

advertising, they must have they owned 5 clothing stores.

Pahpa

I think like most early religious movements these things tend to evolve without a preplanned motive. From what I've read, Russell had not planned to create another religious organization. In fact, in his early writings he warned others against this tendency. It was only when his following grew and members began to ascribe special honors to him that his ego succumbed to the blandishments.

Ironically, it was his wife, Maria, who suggested that he was the "faithful and wise servant" of Jesus' parable. It seems clear that he had no objection to being linked with this special title. Later, she hinted that he might be the "evil servant" of the same illustration. But by then, Russell had a group of faithful members who supported him.

Rutherford, on the other hand, wrested the Watchtower Society from those men that Russell had appointed to carry on his work. His naked aggression and subsequent hard-line rule of the Society had all the ear marks of conspiracy and premeditation.

55

Are JW's a Cult?

by PinTail in

pintail

Pahpa

found my way

Thanks for the clarification. It was funny. I'm still rather new to this computer world and this site. So, I guess I'm really not "hip" to some of the subtleties of this "new world."

Speaking of my naivete, could anyone explain to me what the origins of the words "dubs" and "borg."

27

Ray Franz Comments on Y.M.C.A.

by compound complex in

ray franz states that, according to governing body decisions on matters of faith, fault found with certain of a religion's teachings makes said faith, in its totality, unacceptable to god.

therefore one's association in that religion renders one unclean.

as a consequence, a jehovah's witness would be disfellowshiped for joining the y.m.c.a.

Pahpa

XBEHERE

I think that Ray Franz sincerely thought that changes could be made in the organization. He had done extensive research for the Society when working on the Aid to Bible Understanding book. It was from this endeavor that he began discussing the results of his research with a few close Bethel associates. As I understand it, there was a brief window of opportunity at Bethel for this type of open discussions and exchange of ideas. Some Bethelites even took the opportunity of privately studying the Bible using the library's commentaries and Bible translations.

However, when the Governing Body became aware of this trend, it interpreted it as a threat to its own authority. And it reacted by conducting a "witch hunt" to rid itself of these "apostates." The paranoia spread as the Watchtower articles warned of the perceived danger of people reading the Bible for themselves and reaching conclusions that differed from the Society.

Ray Franz was a victim of his own confidence in trusting that the Governing Body would gladly accept serious Bible research even if it meant some changes of doctrine. He was further shocked by the treatment that he received from those he considered his Christian brothers. But the dismissal of Ray and other brothers at Bethel was a tagic loss for the Watchtower Society from which it has never recovered.

6

Discovery Channel: Est. 6.5 Million in Catacombs- Wouldn't the annointed...

by Lady Liberty in

hello all and happy tuesday!.

in light of the recent discussion on the 144,000, i thought i would mention a program recently aired on the discovery channel.

it is estimated 6.5 million were laid to rest there.

Pahpa

The book of Revelation is highly symbolic. But the Watchtower picks and chooses what is "literal" and what is "symbolic." Bible scholars have pointed out the possibilities of these symbolisms by noting what other Bible books say...particularly those that involve prophecies of the past. But they generally avoid being dogmatic.

The Watchtower, on the other hand, arbitrarily selects interpretations that conveniently fit their views. In doing so, it runs into the difficulties with its own theology. The idea of a limited number (144,000) gives support to its own importance of having the "remnant" of that number in the leadership of their own organization. But most scholars understand the number to be only symbolic, perhaps, representing the whole of "spiritual Israel." There seems to be no definitive answer. But that seems to be the most reasonable!

14

Who is the Slave?

by jeshurun in

who is the faithful and wise servant of matthew 24:45-47 ?

in his end time discourse jesus stressed his unexpected arrival for judgment.

by telling a range of parables, he impressed that teaching on the mind of his disciples.

Pahpa

jeshurun

I really think you are reading too much into Christ's parable of the "faithful and wise servant." Most Bible commentaries simply point out that Christ was encouraging Christians, particularly Christian leaders, to be faithful. It is noteworthy that the "servant" becomes faithful or wicked depending on his actions toward his "fellow servants." He did not say there would be two servants, one faithful and one wicked. (Matthew 24)

The parallel account in Luke (12) agrees with Matthew. The "manager" servant has two choices: to be faithful or abusive. In evaluating the course that servant takes he will either be "put in charge" or be "beaten with many blows." Interestingly, Luke introduces a third possiblity for the servant who did not know the "will" of the master. He is punished but with only with "few blows."

I don't think this parable was meant to be a prophecy. Rather, it served simply as an encouragment or warning to Christians who were waiting for the return of the "master."

27

Ray Franz Comments on Y.M.C.A.

by compound complex in

ray franz states that, according to governing body decisions on matters of faith, fault found with certain of a religion's teachings makes said faith, in its totality, unacceptable to god.

therefore one's association in that religion renders one unclean.

as a consequence, a jehovah's witness would be disfellowshiped for joining the y.m.c.a.

Pahpa

M.J.

I think you'll really enjoy "In Search of Christian Freedom." I'm sure Ray's books will remain as classic rebuttals to the Watchtower's propaganda. It is because Ray has treated the subject with kindness and compassion that makes it so appealing to many of us who have left the organization. It's too bad that JWs still villify this literature without ever having read it. They would be surprised of how forgiving and tolerant he is of an organization that treated him so poorly.

CC

I know how embarrassing it is to make an error. But we all do it. In my case, my fingers outdo my brain...haha