Posts by Pahpa

18

"All of Israel will be saved" vs JW salvation

by *jeremiah* in

it seems as if the jw religion in general has much contempt for israel.

correctly me if i'm wrong, but,...in short, the jw religion thinks they have become israel,...."spiritual israel", anyways.

or, in other words, the blessings and promises for israel have been transfered to the wts and it's faithful members.. which brings up an interesting question.

Pahpa

Russell anticipated the return of Israel in his day. It was Rutherford who "spiritualized" the many prophecies and scriptures that foretold the restoration of Israel by applying them to "spiritual Israel." But this would not make sense particularly in view of Paul's discussion in Romans, chapters 9, 10, 11. He quotes prophecies from the O.T. that apply to fleshly Israel. Just after mentioning "all Israel" he quotes from Isaiah: "The deliverer will come from Zion, he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins." Paul concludes "For God has bound allmen over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all."

While "all Israel" may include those Gentiles who become spiritual Israelites because of their faith, it also has to include fleshly Israel just as the original prophecies indicated.

25

Inspired? Spirit Guided?

by unique1 in

my fathers arguement is always that the fds is not inspired so their humanity causes them to get things wrong.

they are merely spirit directed.

i realized a main flaw in this arguement last night.

Pahpa

Unique1

JWs always come back with the argumentation that they are the only ones doing the "preaching of the good news" today. What they don't realize is that the "good news" of the 1st century centered on Christ, his death and resurrection. Today, JWs' message is about the Watchtower's interpretation that the Kingdom was established invisibly in the heavens in 1914 and that we're living in the "time of the end" since that date. However, if the Watchtower is wrong, they have been preaching a false message. Therefore, Jehovah's Witnesses would be in the category of "false teachers" and "false prophets" that Christ and the apostles warned would come after them.

Jehovah's Witnesses may try to "split hairs" to get out of the responsibility of a teacher or prophet. But the fact remains that anyone in those roles is accountable because they effect the lives of others. In the case of the Watchtower, it is even a heavier responsibility because it has shifted the focus from Christ to itself.

4

Do they do this in other churches too ?

by troubled mind in

i went to psalm sunday at the methodist church this past weekend .

they put on a musical combined with a drama .

it was so eerily like a jw convention drama that it gave me the willies .

Pahpa

There are many churches which can be classified as actively "evangelical." These stress the importance of witnessing to neighbors and friends about the gospel of Christ. But there is a significant difference between them and JWs. They are not required to preach so to be counted as members in good standing. And they generally do not count their time....although they may share their experiences.

We have a local Baptist church (in reality a community church) that puts on a drama about the last supper. Each "disciple" tells his story and asked if he is to be the betrayer of Christ. It is quite well done for an amateur group. And a number of non-members attend the service. I attended last year and enjoyed the presentation. There was no pressure to join or to attend the church.

I don't think we can draw the conclusion that these churches are the same as the Watchtower just because some aspects remind us of our own experiences. And while the motive may be to encourage others to attend and to become members of the church, we must remind ourselves that this should be the goal of all Christians.

14

Watchtower to Sell Standish Arms

by moomanchu in

i didn't see this posted by any one else soooooo ......... http://brooklynheightsblog.com/archives/982.

they're cashin in the real estate for mo money, mo money, mo money.. moo who wishes he had mo..

Pahpa

Instead of saying "there goes the neighborhood", many Brooklyn Heights residents must be saying "here comes the old neighborhood back again!"

23

Memorial 2007

by Ténébreux in

well i just got back from the memorial, after being dragged along somewhat reluctantly.

during the talk, one statement in particular caught my attention which i hadn't heard previously.

the speaker was explaining why probably no-one there should be partaking of the matzo and wine, because on the night of the passover jesus began selecting his 144000 heavenly co-rulers starting with the 11 apostles who were present - and that from then on, most of jesus' other followers just observed and did not partake, recognizing that they were of the earthly class.

Pahpa

"Is not the cup of thanksgiving for which we give thanks a participation in the blood of Christ? And is not the bread that we break a participation in the body of Christ? Because there is one loaf, we, WHO ARE MANY, are one body, for WE ALL PARTAKE of the one loaf." 1 Co. 10:15-17

It is obvious from Paul's consel at 1 Co. 11:17-34 that the entire congregation was involved in the memorial of Christ's last supper and that most were partakers. His warning is against those "unworthy" ones that might partake were those who were "weak and sick" perhaps not discerning the significance of the event but treating it as another meal.

The idea that Christians are divided into two classes, one partakers of the emblems and the other observers, is strictly a Rutherfordian idea. It has no scriptural basis whatsoever.

18

Why am I still surprised at these?

by OnTheWayOut in

compound complex has a thread that starts with the words persecution wanes.

in it he states:.

"after the judge's death, as world war ii was ending and persecution against the witnesses began declining, along .

Pahpa

It was always my impression that the ban on blood transfusions by the Watchtower evolved out of ban on vaccinations in the 1930s. At the time, Clayton Woodworth was in charge of publishing the Golden Age and had some very eccentric ideas. (He didn't believe in the germ theory of diseases.) And according to him, vaccinations were derived from "tainted blood" which he said was forbidden in the Bible. Many of his same arguments against the use of blood was later used in the Watchtower's prohibition of transfusions.

It's difficult to second guess the motivations of individuals years after the events. But it would be interesting if some sort of documentation was available.

29

Do I sound bitter?.....(email to mom)

by *jeremiah* in

on a mac, i hope this formats correctly.

my 1st email and question:

(salutations)

Pahpa

Numbers 9:14

" ' An alien living among you who wants to celebrate the Lord's Passover must do so in accordance with its rules and regulations. You must have the same regulations for the alien and the native-born.' "

10

Did non-Isrealites eat of the Passover meal?

by *jeremiah* in

some "aliens" or non-jews aligned themselves with the israelites,...right?

like,...moses,...he wasn't jewish,...right?

so did non-isrealites eat of the passover meal?

Pahpa

Greendawn

Moses and Aaron were Hebrews and Isrealites...not Jewish. They were of the tribe of Levi. The name "Jew" indicates one of the tribe of Judah although the later use of it included any from the nation of Judea.

10

Pyramid book by Smyth online from Morton Edgar's personal library

by cabasilas in

i was playing around with internet archive last night and found this interesting item: it's a scanned copy of "new measures of the great pyramid" by charles piazzi smyth published in 1884. he's the one who wrote "our inheritance in the great pyramid" which c.t.

russell relied on for his pyramid theories.

(in fact, c.t.

Pahpa

cabasilas

Thanks for sharing this interesting information. Russell accepted any theory that seemed to confirm his own teachings. I think his interest in the Zionist movement was for the same reason. He expected the return of Israel to the "promised land" as part of the "sign" of the last days. And the Zionists were the obvious group that was pushing for this very thing. Interestingly, he did not try to convert the Jews. But he saw them as part of God's plan.

8

Baptist shaking in their boots also.

by jaguarbass in

jw
friends

i get this daily e mail from a baptist preacher friend of mine.

i have played in a southern rock band with him in the past.

he has his own ministry and part of it is e mailing daily bible inspirationals to all of the people he know.

Pahpa

There are many fundamentalist sects who are convinced we are living in the "end times." Since each Baptist church is autonomous it should not surprise us that some promulgate this view. The main difference between these groups and JWs is that they are still looking forward to the visible return of Christ ("coming in the clouds") whereas the Watchtower teaches that Christ came invisibly in 1914.