Posts by Pahpa

10

Jesus' True Message

by WTWizard in

with the reject jesus fest approaching and the god machines about to start bombarding us with their invitations, it is a good time to see what jesus actually was teaching.. i have noticed through the new testament, and particularly the gospels, that jesus was preoccupied with setting man free.

notice how many times he denounced the scribes and pharisees.

because they were teaching people to obey every little letter of the law, not the spirit.

Pahpa

WTW

John the Baptist, Jesus and the disciples were all "thorns in the side" of the establishment. They questioned the status quo and condemned the hypocritical leaders. And they were following a long tradition of those past prophets that were sent to "God's organization" to condemn a rotting system.

The Watchtower emphasizes loyalty to God's organization. But the fact is that the organization was often the problem... not the solution. Men were using it for their own aggrandisement. And this is the reason that God had to send individuals that were not part of it to expose and condemn it.

Jeremiah is a classic example. People thought that God's organization as represented in the Temple would protect them. But the prophet warns: "Do not trust in deceptive words and say 'This is the temple of the Lord, the temple of the Lord, the temple of the Lord....Therefore, what I did to Shiloh I will now do to the house that bears my Name, the temple you trust in.... (Jer. 7: 1-15)

Jehovah did not hesitate to destroy "the house that bears my Name" in Jeremiah's and Jesus' day. This should be a serious warning to Jehovah's Witnesses today.

9

Pharasaical thinking....

by Pahpa in

i know a number of parents who have left the organization and whose children refuse to have anything to do with them because of the disfellowshipping policy of the watchtower society.

these children justify their position declaring that loyalty to jehovah/organization has priority over "honoring" one's parents.

the striking similarity of this position to that of the pharisees of jesus' day can not be ignored.

Pahpa

Gopher

The only time that JWs made a real effort to visit members in nursing homes was when an article appeared that encouraged them to do so. Then, there would be a flurry of activity for a short time. But shortly thereafter, all was forgotten.

I remember an elderly pioneer sister who had a stroke and was put into a nursing home. In spite of her years of service, very few members of the congregation made an effort to visit her. It seems that once you are no longer a contributing member to the Watchtower you are discarded. In another case, a very active sister became ill and housebound. The neglect by the congregation was even noted by her neighbors. These neighbors organized and regularly visited and brought food to her. But the question they wanted to know was "where is her minister and fellow members of her church?" The answer was too embarrassing: "They are knocking on doors and distributing Watchtower literature."

9

Pharasaical thinking....

by Pahpa in

i know a number of parents who have left the organization and whose children refuse to have anything to do with them because of the disfellowshipping policy of the watchtower society.

these children justify their position declaring that loyalty to jehovah/organization has priority over "honoring" one's parents.

the striking similarity of this position to that of the pharisees of jesus' day can not be ignored.

Pahpa

FHN:

There doesn't seem to be a consistent application of policy with regard to shunning parents. But it has been my observation that the more zealous one is for the organization the more severe is the treatment. But the Watchtower has made it clear that little or no contact should be made unless it involves "important family business." Some JWs read this as an escape clause and regularly visit their parents. But many interpret this as a rule to be observed and rigidly shun their parents.

"Honoring" one's father and mother is fundamental in both the Old and New Testament. In Jesus' time, the Pharisees tried to make an exception by claiming loyalty to "God's organization" (the temple) invalidated the commandment. But, as already noted, Jesus condemned the practice and exposed it as "rules taught by men." This, in turn, made their worship in vain.

The Watchtower and JWs find themselves in the same position as those Pharisees.

9

Pharasaical thinking....

by Pahpa in

i know a number of parents who have left the organization and whose children refuse to have anything to do with them because of the disfellowshipping policy of the watchtower society.

these children justify their position declaring that loyalty to jehovah/organization has priority over "honoring" one's parents.

the striking similarity of this position to that of the pharisees of jesus' day can not be ignored.

Pahpa

I know a number of parents who have left the organization and whose children refuse to have anything to do with them because of the disfellowshipping policy of the Watchtower Society. These children justify their position declaring that loyalty to Jehovah/Organization has priority over "honoring" one's parents.

The striking similarity of this position to that of the Pharisees of Jesus' day can not be ignored. "But you say that if a man says to his father or mother: 'Whatever help you might other wise have received from me is Corban' (that is, a gift devoted to God) then you no longer let him do anything for his father or mother."

The Temple and its arrangement was the "organization" of that day. But this did not erase the obligation of God's law for children to "honor your father and mother." However, one might try to rationalize otherwise, Jesus own words to the Pharisees should be warning: "They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men....Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition you have handed down." (Mark 7;7-13)

10

help with a verse

by bite me in

i've been reading proverbs, one of my favorite books in the bible.

recently i decided to read it again to dig a little deeper.

it's a wonderful book, telling us how we should live in a way god would be pleased.

Pahpa

Bite Me

"I, wisdom, dwell together with prudence; I possess knowledge and discretion." (Vs. 12) Widsom is the subject of Proverbs 8. However, many Christians apply this by extension to Christ. Paul in his letter to the Colossians says of Christ: "He is the image of the invisible God, the first born over all creation. For by him all things were created; things in heaven and on earth....He is before all things and in him all things hold together. (1:15-17) "...Christ, in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge." (2:3)

19

Does anyone else notice?...

by still_in74 in

i started this in another thread but i think it deserves its own......... does anyone else notice, that as they see the wt for what it is, the wt articles seem to not actually "teach" anything anymore?

- it just seems to constanly preach over and over to not listen to apostates, not listen to news/internet/documentaries, not listen to anything critical of the org.

just to read the bible and "by extension" bible-based literature.

Pahpa

When a Witness offers to "study the Bible" with someone, he means studying a Watchtower publication that explains (interprets) the Bible. Private Bible Study is discouraged in the organization as evidenced when some of the Bethelites met together for this purpose in the early 1980s. This mentality probably goes back to Russell's day when he boasted that a person reading only The Studies of the Scriptures would be more informed than a person reading just the Bible.

There are other factors keeping many JWs in the organization even if they disagree with the Watchtower or sense that something is wrong in the organization. Many have converted from other religions. It would be difficult for a JW to admit that he is wrong again. Some have many years of commitment. For them it is like an investment that they keep hoping will have a good return.

And, of course, there is the fear factor. JWs have cut off old associations and friendships. They have alienated most of their family members. They rationalize that the organization is the only family left for them. So, the fellowship of other members is their real "security blanket."

They probably deserve our pity than than our criticism.

13

"Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses"...What is this???

by nomoreguilt in

i was reading a reply post to the thread"noah and high altitude".

in it is a series of responses to a letter written to the wts.

i noticed that the letter head was,"christian congreagation of jehovah's witnesses".

Pahpa

One of the criticisms that the Watchtower has dealt with over the years is that it is not a "Christian" organization. I think the leaders became sensitive to the charge and decided to include the name "Christian" as a simple refutation. In the last few years, the Watchtower has put more emphasis on Christ even including his name in the assembly themes. But it is difficult for the Watchtower to overcome the inference because many of the attributes of Christ as savior, judge, prophet, etc. are bestowed upon the FDS by its members.

Wednesday, many trinitarians teach that the trinity doctrine is the "foundation of Christian belief." Therefore, they condemn any who hold to the unitarian doctrine as "unchristian." But the persistant rejection of the trinity by some Christian groups down through history give their arguments worthiness of consideration. It's to be noted that when the controversy tore the church apart in the 4th century prominent members in the church including bishops and emperors supported the Arian position. It took years of conflict and slaughter before the trinity emerged as the "orthodox" view.

Daytons?

by Pahpa in

jw
friends

does anyone know bill and june dayton who used to live in mcminnville, tn?

they and their family were wonderful people.

i know they left tn.

Pahpa

Does anyone know Bill and June Dayton who used to live in McMinnville, Tn? They and their family were wonderful people. I know they left Tn. a number of years ago. But I wonder if they remained in the organization or left it. If anyone has any information about them, I would be very interested to know about them.

37

Did you see Jones town last night ?

by mouthy in

it was horrible.

i had seen before a documentry about it.

also i had read the book.

Pahpa

There have been several documentaries on Jonestown in the last few years. Jim Jones started out as a very charismatic person who made an attempt to help the poor and disenfranchised. Even some of the politicians in San Francisco were taken in by his smooth and appealing personality. But paranoia got the best of him. He began to view the world through the lens of "us and them." It ended very tragically for those who followed him to Jonestown.

Last week there was a very interesting program on the Mormons. One could not help but be struck by some similarities between their organization and the Watchtower. Russell, like Smith, was a founder who had a very pleasing personality. He laid out the foundations of the church. He drew in a number of people who were charmed by his idealism and magnetism. In contrast, Rutherford, like Young, was the pragmatic leader who dealt with the aftermath of the leader's death and maneuvered his position as the successor. He ruled with a "iron hand" and did not tolerate any opposition.

We have many modern day examples of religious leaders who are corrupted by the power of their religious positions. They attain this by the willingness of their followers to accept these leaders without question. Call it blind loyalty or credulity... it often ends in tragedy or heartbreak.

14

Question from Newbie Chris Cross, JW accounting & money trail

by horrible life in

this was on another thread.

since that thread died a slow death, i thought this question from this newbie, needed to be answered.

i have an extra topic to give away.

Pahpa

I don't think there is the blatant abuse of money in the Watchtower Society that we see in many other religious organizations....except for those projects promoted by the Society. But, as has been pointed out before in this forum, one does not have to have a lot of money to live like a wealthy person. It is quite relative. For example, the leaders in the Watchtower organization have a very comfortable life. Housing, food and clothing are provided. Some in the USA have nice apartments overlooking the sky line of Manhattan. They have access to the Society's automobiles. They get regular perks to travel throughout the world on speaking assignments paid by the Society. Generous money gifts are often donated to them by private individuals. The best accomodations and food are provided them wherever they go. And they get the veneration of the rank and file.