Posts by Pahpa

13

The WTS and its vicious slandering of the early church

by greendawn in

one of the most disagreeable actions of the wts is the vicious way in which it relegates the christian martyrs of the early church not only in seeking to minimise their number but also their authenticity.

they claim that after the first century the church went apostate and there were basically very few genuine christians so most martyrs were worthless.

yet when we examine the early church doctrines closely we see that they were pretty much based on the bible and perhaps also on books that were then circulating among the churches and considered, perhaps wrongly, to be genuine at the time.

Pahpa

Greendawn

From what I have read of the early history of the Christian church there were already seeds of controversy from the early beginning. (Gnostics, Judaizers, etc.) But the main body of believers held to the basic teachings of Christ and kept a reasonable acceptance of their Christian brothers who may have disagreed with some doctrines. The "good news" of their time was that Christ had come, given his life in sacrifice and was now exalted to heaven to be with His Father. It's only when the expectations of his early return came to disappointment and when efforts were made by various leaders to control the believers that the early church began to fragment. I think this disintegration started in the 2nd century after Christ's death. By Constantine's time, the "bishops" were well established over their control over the churches. But "orthodoxy" still was still "in flux" as evidenced by the trinity controversy.

Only God will be the judge of who the true Christians are. From what I have read in the Bible, one is judged by one's own "deeds" not doctrine. (Remember the Good Samaritan?) And the Watchtower will come under the heavier judgment of God if it has spurned some of Christ's brothers.

18

Husband made them run away

by muse in

my husband, never a jw, is at home because he has a broken arm and off work.

a couple of days ago the door knocks and two jws are at the door, a man and a woman.

the man starts to make conversation and hubby says that he is not interested in organised religion.

Pahpa

Your husband did right by pointing out the serious consequences of the Watchtower's rules and regulations. It's good that he had first hand knowledge and experience to overcome the feeble defense of the JW at the door.

Jehovah's Witnesses must learn that they are responsible for upholding the dictates of their leaders. Because they have put faith in a man's organization, they rarely think how it effects others. The Watchtower often speaks of "blood guilt" and "community responsibility." The same principles apply to each and every Witness when they uphold the cruel and unchristian policies of the Watchtower....some of which has led to the untimely death of their fellow members.

19

By their deeds you shall know them - aka JW's who aint that christian

by LaniB in

firstly some background.. when i was 21 i went to live in sydney and left my congregation in tasmania.

until then i had never seen the bad side of the borg.

being new in town and staying with my non jw sibling i immediately checked in with the local congregation and soon found a fellow witness to share an apartment with.

Pahpa

A Christian organization should be interested in the welfare of its members first and foremost. (Good shepherd and his flock.) But the Watchtower organization seems to be more interested in its own face-saving efforts than helping its members. Elders only seem to get involved when there is some question of loyalty. And all too frequently, they assume an arrogant and judgmental attitude even before contacting an indvidual.

This lack of Christian concern and compassion in the congregations and in the leaders is what has led thousands to leave the organization in recent years. In stead of giving serious introspection to the problem, it has, instead, become paranoid about the "apostates" who reject the Watchtower.

Until the leaders in the organization make an effort to correct these flaws, it will continue to lose some of its best and brightest members.

19

two JW friends of mine and this site.

by Spirit Axal in

for about 5 years, ive known 2 jw's that i play online computer games with all the time almost everyday.

i remember the days i spoke to them about god.

i was not christian at that time, but i still read my bible.

Pahpa

S.A.

Jehovah's Witnesses are like many other religious groups. There good and bad people in it. The sad part of the Watchtower organization is it doesn't allow its members any freedom of choice. JWs are taught that all other religions are part of Satan's organization. One is discouraged from having close association with any unbelievers. And if a member questions any teachings of the Watchtower organization, that member would become suspect and could be in danger of excommunication.

You shouldn't have any difficulty if you maintain a distant relationship through the inter net playing the computer games. But don't anticipate converting them to your faith. JWs become very defensive when talking about doctrinal matters. And unless you have some good foundation in Bible knowledge they can easily overwhelm you with argumentation.

Glad that you are staying away from the drugs. May the Lord bless and keep you. Pahpa

13

According to the WTS,true Christianity was reestablished in late 1800's.

by RULES & REGULATIONS in

how can the wts claim true christianity was reestablished with pastor russell when all his teachings have been proven to be all false?

and why have they changed their teachings on the memorial partakers and when the 144,000 were filled?.

questionsfromreaders.

Pahpa

It reminds me of a little boy who got caught telling lies and is now squirming in his chair and shifting his feet back and forth seeking an explanation that will satisty.....

32

LESSONS FROM HISTORY

by Doug Mason in

lessons from history .

i have a few reasons for providing the information that follows: .

* a very recent posting mentioned eschatologists of the 19th century (1800s) who provided ctr with his ideas on the interpretation of last-day prophecies.

Pahpa

Doug Mason

Thanks for sharing that interesting information. Christians down through history have been anticipating the return of Christ. Even the early Christians thought it was imminent. So, it isn't strange that various Christian groups have read the "signs" in their own historical times. This would be particularly true when circumstances were bad.

Barbara Tuchman spoke of increased expectation of "the end" in her book, A Distant Mirror." The 13th century seemed to have all the "signs" of the end time prophecies. Wars were widespread and devasting. The black plague ravaged most of civilization. Churches and their leaders were corrupt and venal.

Even some of the Reformers believed the "end" was coming in their generation. They really believed that the Catholic church was "Babylon the Great."

Christians should be cautious in view of history of these mistakes of the past. Jehovah's Witnesses are not the only ones to believe that we are living in those prophetic times. Many sects believe that Christ's coming is near. Religious authors have became wealthy by writing books on the subect. But Christ is clear when he warned that we would not know the "day or hour" of his return which would come as a "theif in the night."

8

With the "New Light" on 1935 will JW's come up with a Great Crowd "A" and B

by booker-t in

it is just getting like a rollercoaster ride with the changes going on at the wt society.

but it just don't surprise me as much as it used to.

i really believe that jw's will come up with a new doctrine of the "great crowd-a" (people going to heaven to help the 144,000) and a "great crowd -b" people staying on earth after armaggeddon.

Pahpa

Booker

Nothing would surprise me any longer. They already have tried the two class system with the "anointed." Remember how we studied about the Elijah-Elisha classes among the remnant?

However, if they put any of the "great crowd" into heaven, it will be another case of making a complete circle. Russell taught the "great crowd" was a heavenly group serving in the temple of God.

But if the Watchtower did make another heavenly class it would help to explain why so many partake of the emblems at the Memorial so that the numbers keep increasing each year.

22

Ex JWs that suffered to an unusual degree

by greendawn in

do you know of ex jws that suffered greatly due to the policies of the wts?

i personally don't know any but i suppose those that left behind parents, spouse and children got a very bad deal since the wts dictates shunning from all these.

also those that lost relatives to the blood policy.

Pahpa

Greendawn

The old policy of the Society allowed for association and communication with disfellowshipped members provided one did not discuss religion. This seemed like a more reasonable approach to this whole situation. But sadly the Watchtower Society became paranoid after the witch hunt at Bethel in the early 1980s. It has maintained a hard line every since...

Some have suggested that the Watchtower changed its position on vaccinations when they were required for one to travel aboard. After WW II the Society was expanding in Europe and elsewhere and needed to have its representatives travel extensively. One has to wonder if the change wasn't convenient "new light" to accomodate this need.

24

Revelation Book - Outright Lie or just an "Untruth" ?

by AlphaOmega in

is the following statement a lie ,or in the light of the feb 1st 2007 watchtower article "why be truthful", is it just an untruth?.

tremorsinhumansociety.

4 from the mid-1870s, jehovahs people had been anticipating that catastrophic events would start in 1914 .

Pahpa

I don't think that the Watchtower and its leaders like Russell and Rutherford deliberately lied. They probably believed what they printed was true. However, it is encumbered upon anyone who makes a mistake (particularly if it has misled others) to apologize and ask forgiveness. And this is where the leadership of the Watchtower has failed miserably! Worse still is the cover-up that follows the mistake. It shows a questionable intent.

One of the few religious leaders to apologize to his followers was William Miller after the failure of his predictions. It's too bad that others who took his mantle did not do the same.

13

What would we like them to do? What would we do in their shoes?

by ThomasCovenant in

jw
friends

a lot of the discussion on this site is about how do we go about trying, if at all, to show friends and family the truth about the 'truth'.

my parents are still 'in' and in their late sixties.

dad still window cleaning of course.

Pahpa

I think I would encourage all JWs to re-examine the scriptures by putting emphasis on the teachings of Christ with regard to love, compassion, mercy, etc. rather than on scaring members with threats of the nearness of "the end." I would eliminate the cruel and unchristian practice of disfellowshipping and disassociation. I would then start dismantling the entire printing empire and spend the money on charitable causes. (Remember Christ's advice to the rich young ruler?) And at the meetings, I would encourage a free and open discussion on the scriptures and the meaning of them.