Posts by girasole

16

Self-rightous witnesses? no......

by mariposa in

jw
friends

i was thinking about how i left "the truth" yesterday and got to wondering about the couple of sisters who were directly involved in the beginning of the end for me.

i know it was because of things they personally did to me that led me to believe witnesses were not "a lovable brotherhood".

and i know, they know of the things they did as well.. so here's the thing, i bet they don't feel the least bit guilty or even bad about it.

girasole

It seems like I remember that witnesses believe that one is bloodguilty if they cause another to stumble. Is that not still the case? Though I'm sure it's hard for them to enforce but that's what they preach anyway.

18

What is your menu for tomarrow?

by lovelylil in

jw
friends

for those cooking a thanksgiving meal tomarrow, what are you cooking?.

my menu as of now is this;.

traditional turkey.

girasole

I'm going out of town and the hostess (my in-laws) will be fixing the turkey and everyone else divides up the rest. I plan to bring spiced cranberry sauce, sweet potato casserole, Sausage and apple wild rice stuffing, and a pumpkin spice cake with cream cheese frosting.

42

Would U Pray To God Under ANY Circumstances???

by minimus in

jw
friends

even if you say you're not a believer in "god", if something bad was happening, would you ever give it a shot, and ask (jehovah) god for help??

?

girasole

sometimes i do pray but in more of a meditative sense - not to a god. I think that there is value and power in "talking to yourself" as it were. I think if you talk to yourself or "pray" about certain things that you would like to achieve or circumstances that you would like to have - the more likely it is that you'll seek out the people and opportunities that will help you to achieve what you want in life - and it is more likely that you'll be open to those possibilities when they cross your path.

Though I've never really been in a life or death crisis I think the same benefit may apply. possibly "prayer" or self-talk in such a situation would clear the mind and allow for the consideration of other possibilities or how to best help oneself or others.

girasole

6

Do JWs contribute to co-dependency behavior?

by love2Bworldly in

jw
friends

i was a jw from age 12 to age 21. i also had an extremely dysfunctional family.

i am sitting here at work (work is slow) and i am wondering whether there was a bigger influence on me to have co-dependency behavior from my life as a jw or the fact that my family was really messed up.. i am thinking about the fact that i am soon to be divorced from a second person who has an addictive personality and/or abusive type of personality, and i am wondering how much influence the jws instilled in me to marry quickly and try to make that marriage work even after finding out how dysfunctional that person is.. i am not looking for excuses or blame.

i know i am the one who made the wrong choices.

girasole

Certainly, we cannot blame JWs for all of our faults and flaws, other factors come into play and we are ultimately responsible for our own actions. However, I do think that JWs contribute to this tendency with the constant need for approval from the congregation and from the elders - as well as the constant fear of displeasing others.

girasole

8

excerpt from www.watchtower.org...

by SB in

the official website of the true god.

here is a preview, w/a link to the rest of the information.

very interesting how they explain exactly what propoganda is.... http://www.watchtower.org/library/g/2000/6/22/article_03.htm.

girasole

another sneaky tactic employed by the JWs to convince themselves and attempt to convince others that they are truly open-minded educators. then they can reason, "see, if that's what we were doing then why would we say that about ourselves." tricky tricky they put down others for doing exactly what they're doing so that others may think - well, if they're putting down others for doing something certainly they are not doing it themselves - well that would be just downright hypocritical.

I can't count the number of times that a newcomer would comment at the BS or WT study and would be quickly hushed lest they say something "wrong" and stumbling. Yep, that sounds a lot like promoting open-minded discussion alright. I guess you could say that they promote discussion if what you mean is 101 ways to regurgitate what was said in the paragraph in your own words - but don't say anything opposing - nope, keep your mouth shut about that and wait on jehovah - he'll make it clear to ya someday, you just wait. and if you add any additional information to your comment, just make sure that you consulted watchtower publications. see, we promote discussion. we let our lowly members do research and make comments. (but shh! we just tell them exactly how to do it first and then we make sure that they THINK they are expressing their own thoughts and viewpoints after we've ingrained it in them through endless repitition...) they are so well trained - that's what makes their faulty viewpoints so hard to infiltrate.

6

DA'ed by actions?

by SB in

i have a question, for any ex-elders, ex-co's, po's, etc...what is the process when someone is da'ed or df'ed w/o an actual jc.

girasole

Several years ago I applied for a job with the local YMCA. At that point I hadn't attended meetings for almost a year. My mother told me that should I accept a job with that organization that the elders would see that as a public denunciation (sp?) of my faith and I'd be disfellowshipped on the spot.

Interestingly enough - several people had taken classes offered by the YMCA - so they'll support the Y if it serves their interests but won't work or volunteer for them. I wasn't offered the job so that was a moot issue.

18

Making my peace with life, love and the world we live in.

by diamondblue1974 in

i am a point in my life when i reflect upon my history and my interactions with various people who have been a part of my life.

some have stayed and yet some inevitably have left through either their or my own choice or indeed by sadly moving into the next life.

these people include family, close friends partners, colleagues and acquaintances.

girasole

Thanks for this beautiful and reflective post!

I love this question that you posed: "Do our lives still reflect that our belief system was abused or are we making constant steps to move on and to heal?"

While I feel that my life will always reflect in some way my experiences in the past I hope that I can also achieve and reflect a sense of victory, strength, and fortitude. It's all to easy sometimes to become mired in being the victim.

In response to your thoughts about forgiveness...For me, it's not possible to experience peace unless there is forgiveness. I don't think forgiveness means condoning or not acknowledging the wrong that has been done - it simply means not getting stuck on it and being willing to move on - even if others are not so willing. I think it means always being open to the possibility that things could someday be different.

For me, there's a micro-forgiveness and a macro-forgiveness. Micro-forgiveness means forgiving on a small scale - the individuals who are most closely associated with us. To me, this is the most important forgiveness. To harbor ill feelings towards individuals could lead to regret. And regret is the emotion that I fear the most. I will always be willing and open to accept those into my life that I was once close to provided that this acceptance is not conditional - ie - does not require entering back into the witness life.

Macro-forgiveness is more problematic (ie - a more abstract forgiveness of the organization and all it embdies as a whole). I have not been able to forgive the organization that brought this about in the lives of family and myself. I'm not sure that macro-forgiveness is altoghether necessary. I suppose that depends on what it would entail. If forgiveness of the organization as a whole means to discontinue speaking out about the hidden dangers and evils then I cannot do that - not at this point in my life anyway. If it means letting go of day to day resentment and anger and feeling empowered rather than victimized - then I suppose while I'm not completely there yet - I'm on my way.

Thank you for your thoughts...

girasole

37

I'm scared and I need help

by Chameleon in

jw
friends

for those of you that don't know my story, read my first post here: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/122526/1.ashx

so, i think next week is when i find out if i am approved to be an ms. if not, thank god, but if i am, i'm in deep crap.

elder dad is confident that i'll accept, but my plan is to try to get out of it by saying that i want to finish school and get an aa degree, at least, before accepting more responsibilities.

girasole

chameleon,

i feel for what you're going through right now. it's the most difficult time when you are pondering whether or not to "out" yourself. That is a very personal decision and one that you cannot take back so you are the only one who knows when the time is right.

i will say though that when you do, my advice would be to stick with your own personal feelings about things and convictions that you have come to hold rather that centering on any doctrinal issues. As you know, witnesses have a rebuttal for EVERYTHING and the UN issue will be no exception. while they do seem to manage to argue still with a person's feelings, it's harder to refute.

good luck with everything.
girasole

12

Sometimes I miss the friendships and good times......

by Alana in

jw
friends

there was a jw funeral i attended this past saturday at the congregation where i grew up and where my mom still attends.

most all of my childhood friends were there.

they had a movie/slide presentation playing at the back of the funeral home of different events, family members, congregation members, etc.

girasole

I can relate so much to what you said, Alana. Thank you for sharing. I too, have had a difficult time with moving beyond that aspect of breaking away. I have no regrets in any other matter, just that one. And I don't really feel regret - I just hate that it has to be that way. Like you, I was never DF'd or DA'd so when I run into witnesses around town most will speak. Others, like you mentioned, will keep their distance.

It's funny that you should post that now - just this weekend my best friend from when I was in the org sent me a letter. I was so taken aback. Four years ago she told me that if I continued on the path that I was on (ie - not attending meetings and not fully being part of the org) that we could no longer be friends. We have not spoken since that day. Then this weekend I get this letter from her which sounds like she wants to reconnect. I'm struggling now with how to respond. After I left, most had a way of turning it around and making it seem like it was ME who was shunning them and that they still wanted to be friends. However, they only wanted to be friends as long as they knew that they were working towards bringing me back - not a genuine unconditional kind of friendship. Anyhow, I had been friends with this girl for 11 years - we grew up together. I know that for as long as I live no one will ever replace what we had because there is definitely a special bond and connection between those who grew up together and manage to stay close (which we did at least until our early 20s when I decided to break away from the org). When I think about it, it leaves me with a horrible empty feeling inside.

I think jag makes a good point that yes, they filled the need for belonging but is that really the kind of belonging that you want? When I first left I pondered whether or not I should go back and pretend to believe so that I could maintain my family and friend relationships as they were. But I just can't imagine ever going along with that lifestyle again - professing to believe things that I know I don't believe - pretending to be encouraged by things that don't really encourage me - seeming to condone actions by witnesses and elders that I do not agree with. That thought is even more painful than thinking about the friends that I have lost - because it wouldn't be true to myself. It wouldn't be authentic.

And I also know that it would be foolish of me to assume that if I did go back that relationships would pick up where they were before I left. I'm far too changed for that. When I can manage to keep my emotions out of it, I know that I want people as my friends who can appreciate me for ME and not on how well I adhere to the rules and conditions of an organization.

All the best,
girasole

15

What things about "Apostates" do you feel is "controlling" as WTS?

by booker-t in

one of the things that i have noticed since i have been out is that "apostates"/ex-jw's tend to try and "controll" you the same way as jw's used to do.

for example: whenever you tell an "apostate" that you are no longer one of jw's they right away asume that you want to be a "born-again" christian and try to cram the "trinity" doctrine down your throat.

also if you tell an apostate that you don't share their views on hell-fire damnation they will immediately look at you with "contempt".

girasole

I have to say too that I've never had that experience. In fact, I've found that ex-jws tend to be more scrutinizing and skeptical about christianity, religion, and god in general.

I have visit some boards where people become so fired up about their newfound beliefs they become just as judgemental at those in the org - just regarding a different set of beliefs. So I think I can see where you are coming from. But I've found that to be more of the exception rather than the norm.

girasole