Posts by dungbeetle

13

Just How Much of NY City does the Org Own?

by Sentinel in

jw
friends

i've lost track of how the org is doing in ny city.

does anyone know how close their buildings are to the former twin towers?.

i've heard that they own quite a lot, perhaps as much as a fulll city block.

dungbeetle

My understanding is that in their very own literature, 'worldly' persons, (anyone who doesn't toe their party line) are doomed for destruction. Birdfood. Go to Tallyman's site, and you will see EXACTLY, in no uncertain terms, what Watchtower thinks of non-JW's.

As far as the neighbors thinking highly of them, the Germans thought that way about Hitler too---untill it was too late. Aside from the millions of civilian and non-civilian lives lost, Germany is still bearing the financial BURDEN of their misplaced faith--no, their PARENTS' and GRANDPARENTS' misplaced faith.

The fact is, Watchtower has no choice but to start doing 'good works' toward their neighbors. Under the best of circumstances, Watchtower exists in an uneasy truce, a 'cease fire' arrangement with their fellow citizens. Just read their literature; JW"s have been taught that non-JW's are going to set upon and kill the 'anointed' and all the other JW's with them. (I gag and choke when I think how I BOUGHT this paranoid delusional thinking)

IF ANY thinking, rational person thinks, with full knowlege of Watchtower history, doctrines, and practices, that these people make GOOD NEIGHBORS, I hate to think what a BAD NEIGHBOR would be.

And the facts are, JW's are beating, raping and murdering one another at a rate unprecedented in their 120+ year history. I would hardly classify this 'as law-abiding' as a group of people.

As far as Bethelites not living that great a life, I'm sorry...I have to get up and COMPETE every day of every week of every month of every year to keep myself employed. I have to have licenses, I have to seek medical care for myself and my family, I have to procure continuing education, I gota get out there and DO STUFF to keep alive. Statements about how good Bethelites DON'T have it is a little ridiculous. The price they pay with the years of their life and in other ways is way too high, but nontheless a long-term Bethelites and the GB have no concept how to live in the real world.

Don't believe me? Look at the death rate of JW's, becasue of the advice these maniacs give the rank and file. And continue to give the rank and file as the body count steadily rises.

WE HAVE MORE WORK TO DO...

Someone who prays daily for my DEATH is NOT a good neighbor in my mind.

53

Gay Pride Week: Who's Celebrating & How?

by Fire Dragon in

jw
friends

how many of us xdubs are glb or t?

(gay, lesbian, bisexual, or transgender).

this weekend i'll be celebrating with friends and "family" over burgers and beer!

dungbeetle

Walter:

just came back from San Francisco and only just saw this on the board.

very sorry for what you are going through. get in touch with the group from "A Common Bond" they are fabulous and I have met many of them personally and so I can tell you you that you will be very safe with them. Although they may be gay, and men, other than that they are as different from one another as apples,oranges, avacodos and grapes, and I am sure you will find several whose personalities/experiences are in step with yours.

Just as there are groups of JW, non-JW and ex-JW working together to make the world a better place for those affected by Watchtower, there are also JW, non-JW and ex-JW working together to make the world a better place for individual sexual expression. (I am a latecoming 'straight' supporter, but I am trying to make up for lost time!!)

Please get in touch with them.

14

S.Lambs Comments re: Drama Talk @ DC

by abbagail in

this just in from silent lambs.

from: "silentlambs" [email protected]>.

date: wed, 26 jun 2002 17:48:54 -0500. to: [email protected]>.

dungbeetle

<NOT TO BE ASSOCIATED WITH OR LISTEN TO THOSE WHO CRITICIZE US USING WORLDY SOURCES CONTROLLED BY SATAN." >

bwahahahahahha

that's quite perfectly okay with me anyway, becasue NOTHING...NOTHING...is as damaging to the Watchtower as THEIR OWN LITERATURE.

After all, we have in print Watchtower ordering parents and the clergy not to speak of child molestation to ANYONE outside of elders, since 1967, in clear violation of most, if not ALL, state laws.

WHO NEEDS SATAN'S SOURCES...anyway?

bwahahahahahah

14

Radio Broadcast..Pledge of Allegiance

by dungbeetle in

jw
friends

i didn't know which forum to post this, so i just take the easy road and post it here.

there has been some discussion of this in several threads on the board, and so when i was asked to pass this around, i will do it here... .

internet radio broadcast .

dungbeetle

I didn't know which forum to post this, so I just take the easy road and post it here. There has been some discussion of this in several threads on the board, and so when I was asked to pass this around, I will do it here...

INTERNET RADIO BROADCAST
HOSTED BY: THE INFIDEL GUY FRIDAY, JUNE 28, 2002(TONIGHT) AT 5:00 PM PACIFIC/8:00 PM EASTERN http://www.infidelguy.com click the "Listen" icon to hear the broadcast, or: http://www.infidelguy.com/listen.html WHAT YOU WON'T HEAR IN THE MEDIA THE INFIDEL GUY, ONLINE ATHEIST COMMUNITIES, ET AL, WILL GET TO THE TRUTH: THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE RULING WAS NOT A MISTAKE. Tomorrow's show listed here: http://www.infidelguy.com/shows.htm Dear Atheists of Silicon Valley, Humanist leadership, FRFF, Jim Heldberg, et al: As you know, the media has provided very superficial coverage of the issues that surround the recent CA court ruling, which opined that "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance is unconstitutional for coercive use in public schools. Immediately afterward, our "representative" government went AWOL, using their easy access to TV cameras to quell any discussion by mindlessly harping on the status quo. I think they're getting a bit used to kissing religious ass on Capitol Hill. We are to expect an automated overturn of the decision, without requiring any - you know - LEGAL justification. But if it isn't overturned in the courts, Congress assures us that they will pass illegal legislation to override judicial review. Then President Bush tells the world with a straight face: "our rights come from God." I think he should be impeached just for being that dumb. You can ignore it, but the McCarthyist wart on the face of American patriotism isn't going away. Apparently it falls on atheists to do this tedious clerical work. Be clear: politicians and the media blitz have produced NO justifiable argument for keeping "under God" in the pledge. We've got arrogant Christians telling us we're a Christian nation so they're not worried [about trouncing atheist liberties], and juvenile retorts like "I have been saying the pledge my whole life - arrest me!" Atheists and atheist groups have not been conspiring to push this court decision through, but we need to make it clear to our absent-minded representatives that it was not a mistake. The decision preserves democracy, the wisdom to keep church and state separate, and the true intentions of the poem's author. This is one simple issue where the secular community needs to take the moral high ground and not give in to absurdity. I know I have a lot to say about this apparently "insignificant" ruling, and you do, too. A.S.V. & local A.A. affiliates: Some have been meditating upon the finer points of American religion & politics for decades, without a pulpit from which to express a secular rebuttal. We have respectable contacts in local media who can use the unique elements we will be bringing up tomorrow. Please refer them to this broadcast, as it should be quite educational. Please quickly notify secular mailing lists. Thanks! xxxxxxx (name and email address removed by me)

23

Surgery for your child and the blood issue

by anewlife in

jw
friends

monday morning my 14 y/o son was having severe abdominal pain in the lower right abdomen...diagnosis....appendicitis.

needless to say an emergency appendectomy was performed.

all went very well as they did the procedure laparoscopicly and therefore he went home in 24 hours and is recovering nicely.. my question/thought to others is this: i was df'd 2 years ago.

dungbeetle

just some more hugs all around for eveyone.

Edited by - dungbeetle on 28 June 2002 13:20:36

8

WTS changes to 1999 CD-ROM and past...

by peterstride in

hey all,.

if anyone remembers off the top of their head about changes that the 1999 cd-rom from the wts had, vs past cd-roms and/or printed volumes from past awakes/watchtowers....please pass them on to me.. i'll be visiting a friend soon, overseas, that's a loyal jw... we've been talking a bit, and i perceive him to be open minded in that he'll listen to me to a certain extent.

as long as i can provide proof from the wts that they have changed things as their "trooth" changes, maybe he'll open up his mind a bit and realize what's going on.. he's already a bit upset with them, because right after he finished his jail term for refusing millitary service, the wts changed that policy.... cheers,.

dungbeetle

The only changes recently are the change in the Watchtower which state "the end will come certainly by the end of the century" changed to 'soon' or some such thing, you would need the original magazine for that to compare with the bound volume/cd.

And the cover of the Watchtower, the one that looks like the whiskey ad. That would be the bound volume and the original magazine that you would for that one as there are no images on the cd-rom.

I don't know if the CD will help you with the 'Sodom will/won't be resurrected' since Watchtower TOLD the publishers that the new book would have the change in it. But it is interesting that two books released in the same MONTH would each say something different.

Then I think there's the Truth book, about the world will be too dangerous to live in in 15 years...the cd-rom reflects the later addition changed to "soon".

If I can get enough coffee and wake up in time, I will come back and edit with citations, and be more coherent.

Or maybe not....

23

Surgery for your child and the blood issue

by anewlife in

jw
friends

monday morning my 14 y/o son was having severe abdominal pain in the lower right abdomen...diagnosis....appendicitis.

needless to say an emergency appendectomy was performed.

all went very well as they did the procedure laparoscopicly and therefore he went home in 24 hours and is recovering nicely.. my question/thought to others is this: i was df'd 2 years ago.

dungbeetle

YES!!! Watchtower COUNTS on us leaving and never looking back. They couldn't be more wrong.

Hugs to everyone who's posted on this thread.

11

JW RAPE

by crawdad2 in

the 16 yr old girl get's raped by a 26 yr old ministerial servant,.

so she goes to the elders about it.. the elders arrange a judicial committe meeting and listen to both sides of the story......... then they go to a room for five minutes and come back, and tell her that they are going to privately reprove both of them.........."furious", she asks what she is being reproved for, and they say "fornication".. they remind both of them to not gossip about it or tell anyone.. because it will bring reproach on jehovahs organization.. the girl, then goes to other elders, and appeals the elders decision, and complains that she got raped!!!

!.....she gets another committe meeting,,,,,they quickly come to the same decision and warn her to keep quiet,,,,,,,she goes to other elders.....they promise to help her...they believe her, ...days go by.........months go by...........she is in a meeting when they announce that brother rapist has been given a part on the assembly.........everyone claps........she goes back to the elders asking them how it is that he just got a part on the assembly, when he just raped her............they start reminding her to be submissive to the lead or they will take action,.....she can't keep quiet........they anounce that she has been reproved.........she starts speaking out against the whole body of elders,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,bingo, she is disfellowshipped for apostacy, and there is no value to her claims at all,,,,,,,,she was just an apostate fornicater, trying to smear a nice brother.....

dungbeetle

Again for all the MANY newbies..

Kent's site has them up and so do the 'quotes' site...except for the 1998 which everyone leaves off for some reason. It's important becasue just yesterday someone referred to this doctrine the PAST TENSE...this policy is STILL IN EFFECT and now approaching it's 40th year at least.

and also here...

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=9031&site=3

WT 1-15-64 scream
WT 6-1-68 scream
Aid to Bible Understanding, 1969, 1971 don't scream
Awake! 3-8-74 scream
Awake! 7-8-80 don't scream
WT 10-15-80 scream
WT 3-15-83 don't scream
Awake! 2-22-84 scream
Awake! 6-8-84 don't scream and scream
Awake! 5-22-86 scream
Insight on the Scriptures, 1988 don't scream
Awake! 3-8-93 don't scream
WT 12/15/98 scream

Edited by - dungbeetle on 28 June 2002 3:9:4

36

Another JW suicide

by Mulan in

i have just learned that there was another jw suicide in western washington (south king county) last weekend.

the man was a young adult, in good standing, married and doing well financially.

i can't reveal more, and this one didn't hit the news either.

dungbeetle

two things I can think of:

1) there are some serious problems in the congregations regarding the use of 'prayer' as a means to 'cure' serious chemical imbalances...(that's pretty much the Watchtower way, but some congregations are progressive and WILL try and get JW's into treatment when appropriate. These congregations try not to get caught doing this tho)

2) the suicides are the same all over, it's just that Washingtonites are more forthcoming.

The connection between the revelation of these suicides is that somebody KNEW the families, in Mulan and Makena (I think it is ) cases. The same is true of JM and the other elder and the woman and the couple and for that matter the Longos and the Bryants and the Freemans....all had contact with ex-jw's

and one more thing: none of them knew or seemed to know of the existance of JW.COM. They didn't know where to go.

THERE IS MORE WORK TO BE DONE....

10

Does Disfellowshipping violate the Constitution?

by YoursChelbie in

maybe this is just my observation but.... with the exception of crimal offenses, is not disfellowshiping by the wts unconstitutional?

at the very least they violate the right to freedom of speech.

(i know about the separation of church and state...).

dungbeetle

On the OTHER thread you posted this topic on, I metioned:

when you join a religion you agree to abide by its rules, in this case being shunned if you leave.

In addition, think of the horrendous effects if people were FORCED to associate with each other no matter what. It works both ways. No one likes to be thrown out of anything, but I wouldn't want to be forced to stay either, and thus you have to take the good with the bad.

some exceptions that might be made:

1) Children. How could a CHILD legally agree to possible shunning? Good poin that the Pandelos brought out.

2) If you became a JW without the realization of what shunning was. Believe me, Witnesses don't tell you about their extreme shunning policies very easily. It wouldn't be easy to PROVE you didn't know, but I think if you could, that would be worth a try.

3) Shunning that was ordered becasue a person was in compliance with a law, such as Bill, and Barbara and the Pandelos. Tampering with a witness in a court case (as Bill Bowen is likely to be) is against the law in all fifty states and the US government. Here I believe is the strongest case, even more so than children.

It can easily be proven that Watchtower used its shunning/expulsion specifically to control people involved, or who could be involved, in civil/criminal court cases. This behavior could get them in jail, and in the case of any lawyers who may be involved, they could lose thier license to practice law.

If one single lawyer for Watchtower can be caught LYING in court (and this includes Canada) I think all of the more than one million ex-jw's in the world should start clamoring to the appropriate bar committee. They should be disbarred.

AMAZING, where ARE YOU?