Posts by Earnest

16

Some notes on early Christianity - its evolution and "sacred text"

by Half banana in

in the scope of this site, it’s not possible to go too deeply into historical research in a single post but we can give the flavour of things formerly hidden from us when we were jws.. like most things, christianity evolved.. it has unseen roots but many visible branches, 40,000 is the often quoted number!

there never was a moment when it arrived fully formed in the middle of the first century.

its roots in folk mysteries were deliberately concealed by fourth and fifth century christian leaders.

Earnest

Half banana : It is most telling from critical-textual examination that ... the idea of “Christ” which in all the earliest copies of texts, later incorporated into the Bible, used instead the term chrest not christ which meant “good”.... There are Koine Greek Bible texts extant which show the spelling alterations from chrest to christ, these have been known for a couple of centuries but so far have received little publicity.

Interesting. Do you happen to know of any papyri or manuscripts that support this?

18

Unbelievable Freddie Franz Admissions

by Vanderhoven7 in

unbelievable admissions.. freddie confesses he fell for his own propaganda.. https://youtu.be/fkjw-r9oitk.

Earnest

In Fred Franz's life account in The Watchtower, May 1, 1987, he recounts (p.24,25):

A high point in my academic life was when Dr Lyon, the [University of Cincinnati's] president, announced to an assembly of students in the auditorium that I had been chosen to go to Ohio State University to take competitive examinations with others to win the prize of the Cecil Rhodes Scholarship, qualifying me for admission to Oxford University in England. One of the contestants outranked me with regard to field athletics, but because of my comparable grades, they wanted to send me, along with him, to Oxford University. I appreciated that I had measured up to the requirements for gaining the scholarship, and, normally, this would have been very gratifying.

He then writes about his learning of and conviction that the Bible Students had the truth, and his baptism on April 5, 1914. He then writes:

I have never regretted that, shortly before the announcements by the educational authorities regarding the outcome of the examinations for the Cecil Rhodes Scholarship, I wrote a letter to the authorities and advised them I had lost interest in the Oxford University scholarship and that they should drop me from the list of contestants. This I did even though my professor in Greek at the university, Dr. Joseph Harry, informed me that I had been chosen to receive it....With my father's permission, I had left the University of Cincinnati in May 1914, just a couple of weeks before the end of my third term there as a junior classman. I immediately arranged with the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society to become a colporteur, or pioneer, as such a full-time minister is called today.

5

Jeffrey Epstein lieutenant JW connection

by Diogenesister in

interesting video regarding a news article surrounding the jeffrey epstein scandal.

shunned teen sarah callan(?

) , from north carolina, became involved with epstein and particularly ghislaine maxwell as a procurer of young girls.

Earnest

Previous thread here.

55

Watchtower Sudy 12 July.the Kings of North & South (from 05/20 issue)

by BluesBrother in

it is a challenge next sunday for them .

due to starting the convention programme the wt study will be a 30 minute run through ,and deals with this prophecy ... i doubt the younger ones are familiar with it at all bur oldies could debate it at length .we on the look out for the king of the north to enter "the land of decoration" (more to follow,maybe next week).

this article makes a grand claim in par 2.

Earnest

The King of the North (Russia) continues to enter into "the land of the Decoration".

According to AsiaNews of 07/23/2020, the press office of the Lower Chamber of the Duma (the Russian parliament) reported yesterday that the effect of a bill passed last year (Article 7 of the federal law "On freedom of conscience and religious associations") foreigners cannot participate in the activities of Russian religious associations, or guide them. In addition to foreigners, the ban on participating and leading religious communities is also extended to people classified as extremists and terrorists, Religious personnel who have studied abroad and who show signs of "religious extremism" are also excluded.

I wonder if this is a reaction to the case of Dennis Christensen.which has resulted in international publicity.

14

New book on early Christianity

by careful in

i'm not quite sure that this post fits under jws/wts since they do not keep up with real biblical scholarship, but i don't know where else to post it.. thomas a. robinson (university of lethbridge) has just published a book through oxford university press on the earliest christians, entitled who were the first christians?

: dismantling the urban thesis.

for some years the idea has dominated scholarship that christianity grew strongly at first in ancient cities like rome, alexandria, and corinth; the notion has been largely influenced by wayne meeks' (of yale) thinking in his book the first urban christians (1986).. i once saw a member here cite meeks' idea of how many christians existed in the roman empire.

Earnest

The fifth volume on urban churches has been released - First urban churches 5: Colossae, Hierapolis, and Laodicea. Writings from the Greco-Roman world supplements 16. (Atlanta: SBL Press, 2019) which is reviewed here.

It includes chapters on Everyday Life in a Roman Town Like Colossae: The Papyrological Evidence, Employing Numismatic Evidence in Discussions of Early Christianity in the Lycus Valley: A Case Study from Laodicea and
The Inscriptions and Oracular Prophecy in the Eastern Mediterranean Basin: Assessing the Book of Revelation in Its Graeco–Roman Revelatory Context:

Overall, the book provides a summary of the Greco–Roman archaeological, numismatic, and inscriptional evidence from Colossae, Laodicea, and Hierapolis and its relationship with the documents of the New Testament associated with the region (Colossians, Philemon, and the message to the assembly at Laodicea described in Rev. 3:14-22).

9

AUSTRALIA | 23 July 2020 - Jehovah’s Witnesses Kingdom Hall bomber found guilty by Supreme Court

by jwleaks in

jw
friends

leonard warwick has been found guilty for a number of bombings committed during the 1980’s, including the family court bombing and the jehovah’s witnesses casula congregation kingdom hall bombing on 21 july 1985 which killed the public speaker, graham wykes, and injured 13 others.. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-23/leonard-warwick-family-court-bomber-found-guilty/12483286.

side note: i have been closely following this story for 35 years now, including the past few years of supreme court hearings, much of which dealt with the jehovah’s witnesses kingdom hall bombing..

Earnest

FatFreek 2005: Anything to indicate this perpetrator is or was a JW?

In evidence given in 2018 it seems the motivation was that "members of the church had helped Mr Warwick's ex-wife move to northern New South Wales".

It seems unlikely he was a JW (although I don't know) because the evidence against him was that "a week before that blast, the hall was broken into and bloodstains on carpet and cardboard boxes later became key in linking Warwick, via DNA, to the crimes."

11

Elder manuals

by dogisgod in

pre elder arrangement.

we had congregation overseer.

when did the society begin publishing the secret “elder” books and training..

Earnest

There was a 1955 booklet Preaching Together in Unity and a 1960 booklet Preaching and Teaching in Peace and Unity but these were available to all Witnesses and didn't discuss judicial matters.

Both booklets say in the foreword that every dedicated witness should read the booklet carefully, study it and work in harmony with the arrangements [for meetings and field service] and the organization. They also say the booklets should be studied in the service meetings of the congregation from time to time, so no exclusivity there.

22

Thoughts on Sunning and blood Doctrines.

by Phizzy in

i have a couple of thoughts on the blood and shunning doctrines, both of which have been covered well before.

here, and on j.w facts.com and elsewhere.. but i would like to point out the following, the only scriptures they can use in reality for their blood doctrine are the verses from acts chapter 15. o.t verse are really out of the question, and dishonest to use on their part, as they do not follow most of the injunctions in there!.

the context of acts 15 is a council of the apostles and others in the jerusalem congregation, to decide what they should ask of gentile christians in the way of behaviours and practices etc, as jewish christians were demanding they comply with the mosaic law, or were, at the very least offended if they did not.

Earnest

Phizzy : The writings of Paul make it plain that the O.T. Laws are "fulfilled" as he puts it, the only law Christians are under is " the law of the Christ".

When Paul writes that the O.T. laws are fulfilled he is particularly referring to the law of Moses. He writes in Romans 13:8-10:

Do not owe anything to anyone except to love one another; for whoever loves his fellow man has fulfilled the law. For the law code, “You must not commit adultery, you must not murder, you must not steal, you must not covet," and whatever other commandment there is, is summed up in this saying: “You must love your neighbor as yourself." Love does not work evil to one’s neighbor; therefore, love is the law’s fulfillment.

It is a given that the Law given to Israel was for a particular purpose for that nation. It is not dishonest or cherry-picking to say that the "laws" given to Noah apply to everyone, because the Bible teaches (whether you believe it or not) that everyone descended from Noah.

I am not arguing whether or not the application of these laws by Jehovah's Witnesses is correct, but that the law on the sanctity of blood/life is universal.

22

Thoughts on Sunning and blood Doctrines.

by Phizzy in

i have a couple of thoughts on the blood and shunning doctrines, both of which have been covered well before.

here, and on j.w facts.com and elsewhere.. but i would like to point out the following, the only scriptures they can use in reality for their blood doctrine are the verses from acts chapter 15. o.t verse are really out of the question, and dishonest to use on their part, as they do not follow most of the injunctions in there!.

the context of acts 15 is a council of the apostles and others in the jerusalem congregation, to decide what they should ask of gentile christians in the way of behaviours and practices etc, as jewish christians were demanding they comply with the mosaic law, or were, at the very least offended if they did not.

Earnest

Phizzy : the only Scriptures they can use in reality for their Blood Doctrine are the verses from Acts Chapter 15. O.T verse are really out of the question,...

Keep in mind that Genesis 9:4 "Only flesh with its soul - its blood - YOU must not eat" was given to Noah and could be understood to apply to his descendants, i.e, everyone. The commands given to Noah are known as the Noahide Laws.

11

Elder manuals

by dogisgod in

pre elder arrangement.

we had congregation overseer.

when did the society begin publishing the secret “elder” books and training..

Earnest

There was a book published in 1961 called Kingdom Service Questions which was

...for the guidance of the congregation committee in handling matters with members of the congregation. It can be referred to as the basis for reaching decisions and complying with the Society's policy, but it is not to be studied at any meeting, nor placed in general circulation among the publishers.

I am sure there must have been similar publications before this. The first Pay Attention to Yourselves and to All the Flock, which eventually became Shepherd the Flock of God, was published in 1977 and was used in the Kingdom Ministry School course for elders.