Posts by Earnest

13

JWs and Conscription/ Military Service

by NotFormer in

matthew 5:41 (nwt) "...and if someone in authority compels you into service for a mile,* go with him two miles.".

a member of the roman occupying forces could command a local to carry their pack for a mile.

the local was thus pressed into a form of military service.

Earnest

This is discussed in an article If You Are Impressed Into Service in the February 15, 2005 Watchtower. The primary points are :

Put simply, Jesus was telling his listeners that if an authority compelled them into some kind of legitimate service, they should perform it willingly and without resentment. They were thus to pay “Caesar’s things to Caesar” but not overlook the obligation to pay “God’s things to God.”—Mark 12:17.
Yet, on occasion, both in ancient and in modern times, Christians have felt that they could not in good conscience comply with government demands. ... On other occasions, Christians have felt that they could comply with what was asked of them. For example, some Christians feel that they can in good conscience perform services under a civilian administration involving general work useful to the community. That might mean assisting the elderly or disabled, serving as firefighters, cleaning beaches, working in parks, forests, or libraries, and so on.

Matthew 5:41 was not referring to either military service or conscription in the sense that one is conscripted into miltary service as a member of the armed forces. It was more like a form of tax whereby compulsory work could be demanded from the population on a regular or exceptional basis. An example would be Simon of Cyrene who was "impressed into service" to carry Jesus' stauron (Matthew 27:32).

11

1961 1962 higher authorities

by Marcial in

are there among you, dear friends, a specialist in american associations from around the 1950s -1970s and a little more?

to find out from what years in the usa the first subsidies were granted to religious congregations and other non-profit or charitable associations?

why this question is that i just thought that there is perhaps a link between doctrinal clarifications over the years and government innovations to support or subsidize these supposedly charitable religious organizations or certain qualified ngos?

Earnest

slimboyfat : It still leaves the question why wait until 1962 though?

I believe that one of the primary motivations for the change in understanding of Romans 13:1 in 1929 (that the "higher powers" referred to Jehovah God and Jesus Christ) was to do away with the ambivalence during World War I whether it was necessary to obey the government in a time of war.

In the Watchtower of April 15, 1929 there is an article "God of Battle" with a section "The Christian and War" where it asks (para.21) :

But suppose the nation in which the Christian has his earthly domicile enacts a law compelling all persons within certain ages to perform military service, put on the uniform and go to war and use the instruments of destruction to kill. What shall he do ?

Of course the answer given is that the true Christian obeys the law of God, and six weeks later in the June 1 & 15 Watchtowers it was made clear that the "higher powers" did not refer to governments (and thus no compulsion to obey them). This meant that during the Second World War there was no confusion as to whether the governments had to be obeyed in time of war as there had previously been.

So while Fred Franz may have been eager to change the teaching once Rutherford died, there was a Korean War going on from 1950 - 1953 which meant the draft continued with the Selective Service Act being continually extended to 1953, 1955, 1959, 1963, 1967, 1971 and 1973. By 1962 the Eisenhower doctrine of "massive retaliation" demanded more machines and fewer foot soldiers. The Cuban Missile Crisis of October 1962 demonstrated beyond doubt that foot soldiers were obsolete on the international stage. The articles in the Watchtower in the following months (November 1 & 15, December 1) reverted the understanding of the "superior authorities" to refer to governments.

This is all just conjecture on my part, but I think it is reasonable that some or all of this was a consideration in the timing of the articles on Romans 13:1.

7

Sunshine Coast Evil Elder

by Tahoe in

from what little coverage i can find, that’s not behind a paywall:.

this person is the epitome of the evil elder.

truly evil.

Earnest

There was an earlier thread on this here.

9

Mental health treatment

by kidchameleon43 in

i'm actually not a jw, but i've always been curious about the religion since it always had an esoteric vibe to it.

i was raised catholic, but more than half my life i've struggled with my faith, and therefore, i've defaulted to the agnostic position.. i'm sorry, let me get to my question.

i've struggled with mental illness for most of my life.

Earnest

Here is a link to the public Watchtower no. 1, 2023.

9

Mental health treatment

by kidchameleon43 in

i'm actually not a jw, but i've always been curious about the religion since it always had an esoteric vibe to it.

i was raised catholic, but more than half my life i've struggled with my faith, and therefore, i've defaulted to the agnostic position.. i'm sorry, let me get to my question.

i've struggled with mental illness for most of my life.

Earnest

The first three articles in this September 1986 Awake! discuss mental illness :

Mental Illness - The Mystery Disease

Taking the Mystery out of Mental Illness

Mental Illness - Is There a Cure?

5

Looking for quotes

by no-zombie in

jw
friends

i've tried but failed to find these quotes.

if anyone knows where they are, that would be great.. #1 reading the wt and awake magazines for a few years, is like getting a uni degree.. #2 don't bother learning old greek or hebrew because its a waste of time, besides we've got it covered.. thanks.

Earnest

Nov 1, 2009 Public Watchtower (pages 20-23) Do You Need to Learn Hebrew and Greek?

5

Looking for quotes

by no-zombie in

jw
friends

i've tried but failed to find these quotes.

if anyone knows where they are, that would be great.. #1 reading the wt and awake magazines for a few years, is like getting a uni degree.. #2 don't bother learning old greek or hebrew because its a waste of time, besides we've got it covered.. thanks.

Earnest

Sep 15, 1914 issue of The Watchtower (pages 286-7)

33

JW Elder Sentenced for CSA

by EasyPrompt in

https://www.westernmassnews.com/2023/09/01/jehovah-witness-elder-sentenced-jail-child-sexual-abuse-case/?outputtype=amp.

.

Earnest

FedUpJW : If THAT is reasonable, then it would follow that NO SINGLE MAN would ever be appointed.

You must argue with Paul, not with me. It is Paul who wrote that an overseer "should be ... a husband of one wife". However, it is unlikely that Paul meant that marriage was a requirement for an overseer as Paul himself was single, and he encouraged singleness.

More likely Paul was emphasising the sanctity of marriage ("Let no man divide what God has put together”).

33

JW Elder Sentenced for CSA

by EasyPrompt in

https://www.westernmassnews.com/2023/09/01/jehovah-witness-elder-sentenced-jail-child-sexual-abuse-case/?outputtype=amp.

.

Earnest

FedUpJW : He was therefore the husband of TWO WIVES, although not at the same time.

That is not an unreasonable understanding of Paul's words that an overseer should be "a husband of one wife" (1 Tim.3:2; Titus 1:6). It hardly refers to polygamy as that is forbidden to all. Further, polygamy was not practiced by the Romans or Greeks at that time.

What else could it mean? While divorce and remarriage was allowed when adultery was involved, this was not ideal as Jesus said "Let no man divide what God has put together.”

14

"Outside the realms" of the words meaning?

by Blotty in

i was recently doing some research and came across this curious quite from dr beduhn - i can't say how valid it is or if he actually said it (source linked).

but this got me thinking i don't think there is anything in any bible where it is a "deliberate" distortion or the words go against the "possible range of meanings the greek" could have.

i know beduhn is not considered an authority however he does have a point - if its in the range of meanings it is by no means a mistranslation & cannot be pointed out as such.

Earnest

Thayers Greek Lexicon on phobos :

2. reverence, respect (for authority, rank, dignity): Romans 13:7; 1 Peter 2:18; 1 Peter 3:16 (15); ἡ ἐν φόβῳ ἀναστροφή, behavior coupled with (cf. ἐν, I. 5 e.) reverence for one's husband, 1 Peter 3:2; φόβος with a genitive of the object: τοῦ κυρίου, Acts 9:31; 2 Corinthians 5:11; Χριστοῦ, Ephesians 5:21 (not Rec.); Θεοῦ, Romans 3:18; 2 Corinthians 7:1; (Ephesians 5:21 Rec.); Θεοῦ is omitted as suggested by the context, 1 Peter 1:17; (often in the O. T. יְהוָה יִרְאַת and אֱלֹהִים יִרְאַת). (Synonyms: see δειλία, δέος, at the end; cf. φοβέω.)