From reading people's stories and life experiences I thought I'd poll the members here for some advice.
My inlaws are extremely toxic. I know, every person says that about their inlaws, but the way they treat their family is absolutely horrible.
I love my wife very much, how she ever came out of such an environment just boggles me. Day in and day out she strives for her parents love and approval, but it just isn't there. And it will never be there.
About 6 years ago her mother sent her a letter that essentially said her my wife was a lazy, stupid slob and she regretted ever bringing her into the world.
I went ballistic. She is highly intelligent and a hard worker that looks after the house and our children, but suffers low self esteem because of comments like this from her mother.
When my wife went to work one Saturday I called up my mother-in-law and tore strips off her up one side and down the other. When my wife got home I told her about it and she hugged me and thanked me and said that nobody ever stood up for her.
We didn't talk to her parents for more then a year. Then out of the blue they call up and invite her to come over like nothing ever happened. She was desperate to go, and told me that she was going whether I liked it or not. That was kind of odd for me, because I'm not one to dictate what she can and can't do. The kids are a different issue. I didn't like the idea of them using their affection as a weapon and would protect my children from such an influence.
I told her that if she wanted to take the kids, the old matter needed to be resolved first. I called up her father and said that I wasn't prepared to let this become a pattern of behavior. Children don't understand why their grandparents aren't talking to them. He assured me that it was water under the bridge and he would personally ensure that it would never get to that point again.
So my wife "enjoyed" a very superficial relationship with her parents. She'd send them emails, keeping them updated with what the children are doing and took them down to visit once a year.
When we visit I notice a huge change in my wife. She loses her intelligent composed demeanor and runs around frantically waiting on her parents hand and foot.
She scrubbed their house down from top to bottom, did the grocery shopping, tended to their gardens, etc.
All this time our kids were bored out of their minds. They did go to the beach, but mostly my father-in-law put them to work in the backyard so he could kill two birds with one stone. Take some vacation time and get work done around the house.
I've told her that when she visits, I lose my wife and she becomes a little girl again. It may sound harsh, but it's true. She is so desperate for her parent's love that she keeps trying harder and harder to prove that she's a decent human being, but they just don't have the love to offer.
We are coming up on the summer time when she is supposed to go down to visit so I asked her about it and she told me that her parents weren't talking to her right now. Stunned I asked why and she shrugged and said she didn't know and frankly I believe her.
Talking with my mother last week she told me that she saw them at a meeting the last time she visited the area and started talking about their grandchildren. My mother-in-law looked at my mother coldly and said "we're not talking to the children right now". My mother told me this was in October of last year.
It just makes me want to scream. Now my wife didn't tell me about this because I think she's worried that I'll tell them off again and frankly I have a good mind to.
My family is far from perfect, but we are family. If my brothers and I get in an argument, we exchange heated words, say what's on our minds then take a few hours to cool off. Then we have a calm discussion about what bothering each other and that's it. When we forgive, it truly is forgotten.
My mother-in-law is still bringing up grudges she's been holding against my wife from when they were children.
I'm completely at a loss. I asked my mother if she was just talking to the mother-in-law and she said no, it was both of them. This is the man that I called up and expressly said that I would not tolerate this toxic behavior and he gave me his word he would never let it happen again. In fact the M.I.L went on to tell my mother why they weren't talking to their daughter but I won't mention it here. I'm hoping that if there's some good advice I can point my wife to this thread. I promised my mother that I wouldn't tell my wife their reasons, but it was so petty that my mother just said "That is no excuse to cut off your family" and stormed away.
I would love to just reach out and protect her, but now she's even hiding it from me and our relationship has no other secrets. How can I help her get the confidence to stand up for herself and tell her parents that this behavior isn't acceptable? How do you help someone that doesn't want to see the problem?
Paralipomenon
JoinedPosts by Paralipomenon
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What to do when your parents are toxic?
by Paralipomenon infrom reading people's stories and life experiences i thought i'd poll the members here for some advice.
my inlaws are extremely toxic.
i know, every person says that about their inlaws, but the way they treat their family is absolutely horrible.
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Paralipomenon
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How'd you pick your Avatar and/or Username? (Share a little bio?)
by Open mind ineven though you might think it's painfully obvious, explain why you chose your avatar and/or username.
it could help us faceless "netizens" get to know each other a little better.
open mind.
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Paralipomenon
Way back in the day when AOL used to send out CD's en masse I used to sign up for a free month trial every time. Eventually I started to run out of user names based off my real name.
I tried many combinations and "cool" sounding names but they were all taken so after a frustrating 15 mins of attempts I went over to the dictionary and opened it up to a random page to look for an obscure word.
I found this one.
Paralipomenon is actually an alternative name for the book of Chronicles. I liked it instantly because the meaning of the word would completely escape any hardcore witness.
Since Chronicles is a book of the bible, I picked a book avatar. -
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The creation lottery
by Paralipomenon innow most creationists use the argument that life just had to be created because it is so complex.
after all, the chance of it just happening is so remote that it negates any chance of just happening.
using that logic however, the lottery is impossible.
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Paralipomenon
Now most creationists use the argument that life just HAD to be created because it is so complex. After all, the chance of it just happening is so remote that it negates any chance of just happening.
Using that logic however, the lottery is impossible. The odds of a single individual winning are so astronomically high, that it would be easy to conclude that it is impossible to win. But most weeks someone does win. Sometimes it takes a few weeks, but eventually someone will win.
To date, I don't think anyone has taken a look at their winning ticket and say "The odds of me winning are too high, this ticket must be false" and tearing it up.
Okay, okay, I can hear the creationist minds starting to get into gear here already mentally drafting their posts on how to school me over. The odds of winning a lottery are just mere millions. MILLIONS! That doesn't even take into account that there are millions of people buying tickets, some of them buying multiple tickets. When you look it from the lottery's point of view and ask the question "will someone win the lottery tonight?" The odds get alot better, I'd hazard to guess about one in ten.
But life? Do I know, or even fathom how complex life is? This is no mere biological lottery. The raw chance of life just happening is so much more remote. Then you have to factor in multiple types of life, and them working together and ecological balance. Wow, that just makes me want to drop to my knees and look to the heavens and give thanks to a great and mighty creator.
Oh wait, what's that I see up there?
Stars.
Hmmm, they're pretty. Nice of God to create those.
In fact alot of what we see as stars are actually galaxies, that is clusters of millions of stars, and then there's even super clusters that are clusters of galaxies. And to think that God is so powerful that he can remember the name for each one.
Ah that warm and fuzzy feeling washing over me of a kind benevolent creator that knows all this information and still knows me individually. I feel at ease with completely missing the point of a recent astronomical think tank took a look at the given universe and roughly calculated how many stars they felt they would be able to accurately catalog if they had the proper resources.
The figure?
70 sextillion.
If that number doesn't sound right I'll tell you, it's a 7 followed by 22 zeros. For a more visually impacting display, here it is:
70,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
That's alot of names. If my faith wasn't strong enough I would even hazard to think that each of those stars can support multiple planets and each of those planets represents one chance for life to form.
Now since God has no beginning or end, that means that time is infinite so that means that in an infinite period of time, if 70 sextillion solar systems bought multiple tickets to the creation lottery, they would never, ever win. Even if they played forever.
My friend used the saying "Lotteries are a tax on people that are bad at math". I'd like to offer that the belief in creationism is a perfect avenue for individuals that are equally math impaired. -
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NWT on Jeopardy?
by Confession inokay, i know i saw something about this on jwd, but i can't find it.
can someone be so good as to direct me to the former link?
any other comments as to the veracity of this would be appreciated.
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Paralipomenon
This article has been discussed here before, but the Jeopardy part seems like a urban myth.
Firstly, Jeopardy goes in the format of providing an answer then the contestant gives the answer in question form. If it really happened, it would have been quoted.
Secondly, topics on Jeopardy are only based on hard facts. Since they are dealing with a monetary prize they need to have concrete proof of their answers. They would never let this "question" be admitted because it is subject to challenge.
The article that followed was drafted by someone that was very anti-trinity so his basis of most accurate translation was looking for passages that disproved the concept of a trinity. Hardly an unbiased work. Later in the study he infact slammed the NWT for some of their renderings. -
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My mom wants me to go to memorial
by WANTMOMBACK inever since i can remember i have attended the memorial only for my mothers sake though.
i am not a jw nor do i have any desire to ever become one but i know it means alot to my mom.
although now i have been enlightened on many things about her religion that i do not want any part of and i do not want to go.
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Paralipomenon
If attending one meeting for an hour each year preserves your relationship with your mother, I'd say take the pill and swallow it. It sounds like she's of the mindset that as long as you attend the memorial, you're still a good person.
And she would be right, since you are doing it to keep your mother happy.
If you have your own religious or moral beliefs that bother you with going, then tell her those. But by your own account you feel she'd stop talking to you if you don't go.
It's a tough position, but you need to decide what's more important to you, your personal beliefs or your relationship with your mother. -
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WBTS does visit apostate websites!!
by crazyblondeb inwatchtower society visits apostate website!february 27th, 2002 | posted in: , jws vs. the world | keywords: jehovah, watchtower society, internet, apostate, articles by rado vleugel | 5 comments.
by rado vleugel.
webmaster watchtower information servicethe ancient chinese tactic sun tzu who lived 2,500 years ago once said: if you know your enemy and yourself, you will win every battle.
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Paralipomenon
Our IP's aren't posted, only hashes based off our IPs.
Given the technical offerings that have come out of the organization, I'd hazard a guess that they'd have a hard time tracking someone even if they did have the raw IP.
Unless they contract out to a worldly.
Borg not so smart on smarts. -
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OK now, I'm really an apostate
by dawg inso, i go to my jw uncle's funeral for obvious reasons!
after the funeral my family invites me to dinner, something we haven't done for some time (probably 8 years or so) as i'm considered disassociated not disfellowshipped.
i guess this is allowed per the new jw policy but since that crap changes from time to time i'm not sure.
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Paralipomenon
What does it always seem that I go against popular opinion here?
What if she had asked to start over then the next day you got a eight page letter full of JW quotes and scriptures? You'd be pretty annoyed.
If you want her to respect that you're not a witness, you need to respect that she is one. If the two of you can have a nice family relationship and just leave religion at the door, wouldn't that be ideal?
Admittedly you misread her doubt, but then it was you that slammed the door when it came to light.
Sorry, no high fives from me. You still may have an opportunity to apologize for coming on strong and ask for a non religious relationship where she doesn't try to get you to come back and you don't ask her to leave.
Respect is a two way street. Are you saying that you don't want to associate with her as long as she's a witness? How is that different than JW's shunning? -
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I'm Attending the Memorial
by RichieRich inmy lovely girlfriend and i sat down over a homecooked meal, and discussed the pros and cons of attending the memorial.. i decided, with her support, that we would attend.. i spent years of my life pretending to be a witness to please my mother.
when i left the witnesses, my mother said some hurtful things.. and those things really hurt me... for a while.
but i established myself as my own person, developed my own relationships, and have gotten a good start on my own life.. i don't know that i want to hurt my mother back, but i do want to make it abundantly clear to her, my grandmother, and all the members of my former congregation, that richierich is alive and kicking.. and i think that walking into the kingdom hall, dressed respectfully in a suit, yet with full piercing jewelry intact, and with erika wearing something classy that steals the brother's eyes, and draws glares from the humble sisters, will be just the thing to send that message to my mother.. i don't plan on partaking or making a disturbance.
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Paralipomenon
"If it doesn't, the Hall does have exit doors. "
As well as bathrooms.
Are you familiar with the maneuver titled "Upper Decker"? -
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I'm Attending the Memorial
by RichieRich inmy lovely girlfriend and i sat down over a homecooked meal, and discussed the pros and cons of attending the memorial.. i decided, with her support, that we would attend.. i spent years of my life pretending to be a witness to please my mother.
when i left the witnesses, my mother said some hurtful things.. and those things really hurt me... for a while.
but i established myself as my own person, developed my own relationships, and have gotten a good start on my own life.. i don't know that i want to hurt my mother back, but i do want to make it abundantly clear to her, my grandmother, and all the members of my former congregation, that richierich is alive and kicking.. and i think that walking into the kingdom hall, dressed respectfully in a suit, yet with full piercing jewelry intact, and with erika wearing something classy that steals the brother's eyes, and draws glares from the humble sisters, will be just the thing to send that message to my mother.. i don't plan on partaking or making a disturbance.
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Paralipomenon
Weighing in my two cents...
They still have an emotional hold on you. If your life is as good and happy as you claim, why do you even care what they think?
Paraphrasing an excellent quote:
"Maybe we would worry less about what people thought about us if we realized how little they actually do"
You are gone. You need to face the cold hard reality that your name likely hasn't come up in the congregation in over a year. Even more likely is that most of the congregation has forgotten you exist.
But you remember them and you want to redefine the image that they remember you by. Plain and simple, it won't work. You will be the discussion of dinner tables for a couple of nights to some, then forgotten again.
They don't care about your happiness. They don't care about your well being.
When you finally realize this and stop caring about their opinions of you, I think that's the home stretch to recovery.
If you are going for some sort of closure, I hope you end up finding it. -
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JW selling Brooklyn Heights property
by Gayle inhttp://brooklynheightsblog.com/archives/882.
selling old standish hotel,,i can't seem to cut & paste,,maybe someone else can do it to this forum.
thank you..
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Paralipomenon
Property taxes on those buildings must be rather high. Better to sell them and build a larger buildings that are more functional than maintain them for a presence.
It's a sound financial move.