Posts by metaspy

62

If Jesus could talk to Satan...

by AuldSoul in

consider the scene: jesus has just been baptized and immediately leaves for an extended stay in the wilderness all on his lonesome.

now ... already this is something the governing body would discourage any jw from doing, but i digress.. along comes satan.

jesus knows it is satan, because of how satany he is.

metaspy

----Dark Angle:----

if satan was considered disfellowshipped or an apostate in the adams time, why was he allowed to have a discussion with Jehovah in jobs time?
My question in response would be: why was Satan (a rebel, slanderer of Jehovah, and slayer of mankind) not killed immediately following his rebellion?
For the simple reason that Jehovah was proving a point. Satan made a claim against Job's integrity - no doubt all angels that were present could hear the discussion too. If Jehovah ignored Satan, or kicked him out, what would the angels think? It was better to resolve the situation, instead of ignoring it.

in principle, why was he allowed to have a discussion and influenced Jehovah ( as audsoul pointed out)?
the reason for the allowance of discussion is answered above. The influence of Jehovah did not happen, as I tried to mention before.
James 1:17 says of God - "with him there is not a variation of the turning of the shadow" - the point I am making is: Jehovah was not changed by the discussion with Satan. His purpose, personality, power, all remained the same. Look again at the definition of influence
Main Entry: influence
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): -enced; -enc·ing
1 : to affect or alter by indirect or intangible means : SWAY
2 : to have an effect on the condition or development of : MODIFY So now I ask, was Jehovah altered in any way? Was his condition effected? Was he modified by the discussion? If the answer is yes to any of these, please point out the scripture that tells us how he was altered/modified.

----AuldSoul----

Are Jehovah's Witnesses doctrinally allowed to answer an apostate's questions with Scriptures?
Good question! I have no idea what the official standing is. Most of what I have found in the WTS literature about apostates says not to take in apostate ideas through reading, and listening. But I did happen across a sentence that may apply to your question... W86 3/15 "Do not Quickly be shaken from your reason" - "If the one spreading apostate teachings cannot be restored to spiritual health by loving but firm application of the balm of God’s Word, amputation of this member (disfellowshipping) may be the only alternative for the protection of other members of the body."

If not, are they really encouraged to follow the example of Jesus?
A fine point also. The above mentioned sentence seems to allude to some sort of scripture sharing.

Also, if Satan did not "influence" (according to Merriam-Webster) Jehovah, why did Jehovah permit Satan to do to Job what he had not formerly permitted Satan to do to Job?
See above. I focus more on the point Jehovah was not changed from the person He was before the discussion. Jehovah permitting Satan to do more things does not change Jehovah.

Your response is intriguing in that it admits that church dogma holds Satan to be the first apostate and seems to regard the discussion (see Merriam-Webster) between Satan and Jesus as a good thing.
Indeed, it was a good thing. Jesus was tested to the full. Thereby, Satan could not later say, "things would have been different if I could have done this or that." A fully tested perfect man equalled out the sin of Adam.

----Agapa37----

I see the way you CHANGED the subject after she thouroughly undisputably answered your questuons
who is she? If you were referring to me, I am a male. ;-D

62

If Jesus could talk to Satan...

by AuldSoul in

consider the scene: jesus has just been baptized and immediately leaves for an extended stay in the wilderness all on his lonesome.

now ... already this is something the governing body would discourage any jw from doing, but i digress.. along comes satan.

jesus knows it is satan, because of how satany he is.

metaspy

(1) According to the Bible, was Satan an apostate from at least the Garden of Eden onward? (the meaning of "apostate"; Genesis 3)
Yes Satan could be considered the first apostate, as he was the first to cause someone to apostasize from true worship

(2) Was Satan, a known apostate, allowed in the assembly of God's angels? (Job 1-3)
Yes Satan was allowed in Heaven. He was not forcibly removed until Jesus became king of God's kingdom. Until then, Jehovah gave him the freedom to go where he pleased.

(3) Did Jesus talk with Satan? (Matthew 4)
Jesus answered his temptations

(4) Did Jesus use Scriptures when talking with Satan? (Matthew 4)
Jesus did answer Satan with Scriptures

(5) Did Jehovah both talk with and allow himself to be influenced by Satan? (Job 1-3)

yes and no. I do not see where Jehovah is being influenced by Satan. (Look up influence with Miriam-Webster: alter, modify - neither of which did Jehovah do when talking with Satan) He answers Satan's taunts, but does not change in anyway.

(6) Would the interaction between Jesus and Satan described in Matthew 4 be permissable for Jehovah's Witnesses? (Matthew 4)
Jehovah's witnesses probably shouldn't be talking to Satan. :)

That, indisputably, being the case: Why is it okay for Jesus to talk with Satan but not okay for my family to talk with me?
I dispute your assumption that Jesus would be disfellowshipped for talking with Satan. Situations would be taken into account. If I were on a mountain and an apostate came and tempted me 3 times and all I responded with was scripture (then told him to get lost), I would not be disfellowshipped.
You keep referring to Jesus temptations from Satan to a fullfledged conversation. According to scripture, it was 3 temptations.
Satan: "make bread out of this rock", Jesus: "man lives on utterances from God too".
Satan: "jump, God will save you", Jesus: "don't put God to the test".
Satan: "worship me!", Jesus: "worship only God! Leave me, now."

Not much of an indepth conversation. I highly doubt this to be a disfellowshipping offense.
Edit:ooops, I guess I didn't finish answering your question.
Since Jesus didn't have a real in-depth conversation with Satan, neither should your family have one with you.

13

Am I right here, or just Sarcastic...

by Tuesday in

jw
friends

so my mom might be having an operation shortly, so i asked her about the blood card.

i said that since i was the closest relative that would at least understand her beliefs and follow them (no other relative in the area would allow her to not take blood) i said that i understood there was a new blood card with the various incraments and particles of blood that will be allowed.

she said there was and she had the card filled out, which i took a look at it and everything was checked off.

metaspy

You are partially right.
Each of those fractions are from blood. However, they are not the MAIN 4: Red cells, white cells, platelets, or plasma.
So if you take fractions and mix with water, you dont get blood.

Someone gave the example here of the pieces to pizza. I prefer to use a different example: Apple pie.
If we couldnt have apple pie (as found in 1 Metaspy 4:13 - "thou shalt obstain from apple pie")
You might stay away from the main ingredients - Apples, Crust
Could we have cinnamon? It is a fraction of the apple pie, not a main part

just the ramblings of Metaspy

11

Door to Door Dangers

by Outaservice in

jw
friends

i understand people's growing reluctance to answer their doors anymore with the crime rate soaring etc.

jw's must be a nuisance to many because of this.. however, as a jw did you ever find yourself in a dangerous situation because of calling on someone who was dangerous?

do you feel, or did you feel you would have had divine protection in such cases?

metaspy

DOGS = Danger! I have had several run-ins with dogs.
1)there was a happy dog wagging tail, I walked through an archway in the fence (to get to the only door on the house). dog turned into evil dog - hair standing on end, growling, ready to remove most of my vital organs. Thankfully those in the car got his attention and I made it to the car safely.

2)Friend was approaching house when a woman came out. she was on the phone and just told him to leave the mags at the bottom of the stairway to the porch. As he was bending down to leave the magazines, this dog zipped over (quietly) and jumped up to take a hunk out of his bottom. the woman of the house shouted for the dog. The dog looked over at the woman and head-butted my friend's bottom. (that's how close the dog was to actually biting him!)

22

Advice for single brothers and sisters at the DC

by Bumble Bee in

jw
friends

i found this on another db and thought it was so true!

i recognized someone from almost every group listed here.

anybody you recognize or do you have another group to add to the list?.

metaspy

The "I'm Too Fine, So I Know You Want Me" Ones - Ones who approach you, but automatically think that you want them.

This was a brother in my old congregation.
Unfortunately, this was due to his parents encouragement of this idea.
I find it ironic since he is lanky, not good looking, stuck up, and an all around (pardon the expression) jackass.

12

Moved the study and forgot to tell us.......Seriously!

by MinisterAmos in

jw
friends

i feel just awful~!.

the wife and i showed up with our red books and bibles at the new brother's house ready for the study, but nobody was there.. anyone else ever have this happen?.

i understand that the group is huge, us, the new guys, the conductor (a bethel reject), and three generations of dubs who live in the same house, but are three family groups too much to keep track of?

metaspy

I have seen this happen before:
a sister did not go regularly to the TMS and Service meeting.
the change was announced in local announcements. no one called her.
I was sick (bookstudy at my house), when she came I told her where to find the study.

42

exJW Obsession and Paranoia towards the Witness Religion- Is it healthy?

by timetochange in

jw
friends

any thoughts?

time goes on friends, our children are growing and the world moves on.

clock the hours you spend fighting a non-entity and realize it is time lost.

metaspy

Avishai, I nearly choked on a coughdrop when I read your post, I was laughing so hard.

7

Crazy Bible Highlights

by metaspy in

jw
friends

ok, so i am in a new congregation (2 months).

the po was giving the bible highlights for isaiah 34-37. .

somewhere in there he slips in the angel that killed the 187,000 men was none other than jesus.

metaspy

Ok, so I am in a new congregation (2 months).
The PO was giving the Bible highlights for Isaiah 34-37.
Somewhere in there he slips in the angel that killed the 187,000 men was none other than Jesus.
I sat up in my chair and said to myself, "where in the world did he get that from?"
I just checked the index and the best I could come up with is an article that suggests it could have been Jesus. Nothing definite.

has anyone else heard this before?
What evidence is there to prove such a claim??

(this is not the first time I have caught people saying odd things from the platform.)

Metaspy

6

How did you accept counsel

by KAYTEE in

jw
friends

was it easy to accept council from elders, i found it extremely hard, the reason being it was always laced with stupidity.. just one of the many many times i had run ins with the elders.. when discussing an important issue that had come up (usually personally), the elder said to me "getting your little green book out again", a reference to my use of the wts code of conduct book (the organisation book) trying to counsel me on the use of wts material.

how can you start from common ground when you have foolish statements said like that from so called spiritual leaders .

my dear old mum, when bringing up 4 children after the war, gave us every week a dose of cod liver oil ,her reason was we needed it.. cod liver oil is like counsel.

metaspy

I followed the counsel reluctantly (The PO made threats against every priviledge I held).
The counsel given was their opinion on how a matter should be handled (the society had no stand on the matter).
then when I could take it no longer, I showed them Sept.1, 1996 Watchtower where it says Elders will not give their opinion in matters of personal choice. He held true to his threats. Even bringing in the CO against me. (Which I still can't figure out why the CO would go along with opinions rather than the F/D Slave).
My actual removal was because "I wasn't showing soundness of mind (or reasonableness) in how I was handling situations".
go figure!

40

hey expioneers and exelders what goes on during......

by 5go in

the co visit during those meetings you guys go to.

metaspy

I have been to both pio meetings and MS/Elder meetings with the CO.

Only one really sticks out in my mind.
It was right after I had brought up some (12+) problems in our hall to the CO.
He picked 2 that he would bring up while the MS were around.
It went something like this:

CO: How would you handle a situation like this ______?
Service Overseer: Definitely, I would handle it like this ______!
CO: INTERESTING! NOW, lets look how the F/D slave says how to handle.
[SO now is 15 shades of red since he was just embarrassed in front of peers]

CO: How should we handle a situation like this ______?
[no one raises hand, scared crapless of embarrassment]
Me: The F/D slave says ________ as found in ________.
CO: Good. Lets handle it that way.
[dirty stares from PO, SO, and Sec. All who were handling situation wrong]

---- fast forward 2 years to a new CO ----
[same problems still exist]
CO and elders: Metaspy, you are not using good judgment in handling these situations in this manner.
We no longer think you should be an MS