Posts by JamieL

9

How to deal with Mom "serving where the need is great"?

by snickers in

jw
friends

first of all, i've been reading this forum for many months and have found it such a nice place!

a little history - my husband and i were both raised as jws, and both left about 11 years ago.

we were initially inactive for quite a few years, but we still believed all the bs.

JamieL

My story would be a lot longer, and I won't go into it.

I mean my mother is pretty cool and then also pretty cold. She had an absolute horrid upbringing and it came thru in our family. I mean our grandmother was a ruthless woman and I couldn't imagine what my mom went thru growing up, so I kind of understand all her being angry.

But I mean mom always, always tried to guilt us into being good children. I mean from the time I was very young this was goin on. Very difficult to deal with, we had extremely high standards set for us inside the org and outside as well.

It's complicated by many many different things. She thinks she lost her child when he was 10 and she did. But I certainly can't ever tell her my brother molested me. I mean, I don't know what that would do to my parents, but I can't tell them that. So she thinks its her fault, or that somehow it was me changing, or I became something else. And now, since I am DFd she and my father were pretty supportive in the beginning. My dad still is. But she called me all whacked out a couple weeks ago and I just hung up on her. She was talking about how hard this is for her and she can't do it anymore (talk to me). How hard it is for her???

That's like when me brother called me up after all the stuff got out to the elders and asked me "I just want to know that I didn't do anything to change your life" really? really? No apology, or begging for forgiveness? Nah, to hell with that, I want to feel good and not have to feel terrible inside about what I did so I can rationalize that I'm a good person.

21

What a woman REALLY means!!

by crazyblondeb in

jw
friends

i will be very honest and say, "i currently do all of these things"!!

) fine: this is the word women use to end an argument when they are.

right and you need to shut up.. .

JamieL

I think I have decided I don't have time for individuals who cannot simply say what they mean. Which unforunately includes a lot of women, and probably drives men to be gay...(joking)

21

No prayer for disfellowshipped ones

by LexWatson in

jw
friends

i'd enjoy reading your comments about prayer.. the wt club says it is inappropriate to pray for those who are disfellowshipped...and we should obey them lest we be shunned and not be part of the organization jehovah is using.. however the bible tells me we should even pray for our enemies!

jesus set the example by even praying for those who were torturing him and murdering him.

"father forgive them!

JamieL

Even while I've been DFd I saw it discussed on the bookstudy that anyone person you see on the street could certainly be in the new system and you might not expect it, but a person you expect to be there (a fellow JW) might not be.
Here's a classic example of why many of us consider Jehovah's Witnesses to be a mind-control cult. What really is the message here? Isn't the message that you have no reason to sincerely feel safe in the organization? Anyone could be the next to fall. It could happen to the brother who was in for sixty years, saving people every day, doing everything he could to say thank you to Jehovah, and he could be gone in an instant. What does that say about Jehovah's loyalty?
The messages that the Jehovah's Witness organization sends out is to keep people uneasy. Uneasy people don't look at themselves in detail and make positive changes. They just try to limit the amount of uneasiness or distract themselves in other ways. This message, and many other common messages among what the Jehovah's Witnesses teach slyly make God out to be some kind of insecure and vengeful monster. These messages don't honor God or draw people to him at all.

What? You are making NO sense.

Who knows what God thinks or does not think about people. I gaurentee you there are plenty of selfish people in the world that don't deserve his grace or Jesus, though they give it freely it does require faith and a faith that is reflected by how you live your life. Works are not required, but obviously by how people live their lives you might be able to conclude a lot about their faith.

Jehovah is loyal to the heart condition of everyone. But even God has limits to being tested, which is reflected again and again in the Bible. You can't just be a punk that claims to have faith and then lead your life like you don't give a crap about anything but yourself.

What message was "I" sending. I wasn't sending that one, you are reading TOO much into something and making an argument where there isn't one. How is that at all constructive or in any way bring any honor to anything?

I was simply saying "who can know what Jehovah will do, he alone KNOWS peoples hearts" and if people have bad hearts he cannot force them to have good ones. You really think having read the Bible thru that Jehovah likes being disrespected by those who have no respect for his creations?

Forget about being a JW or not at this point, I'm just talking common sense here. There are plenty of bad people in the world and they don't care about what they do or who they hurt. In general people do have respect for life, but invariably when push comes to shove they are more than likely to choose themselves over anything else they say they have faith in. Are they bad? I don't know, who knows. But as human beings we are "inclined" to baser instincts. That's reflected in a world that could be better but is not because human beings choose themselves before others. Can you honestly look around and say, "it's all good" "everyone is happy" "everyone is good"

To me your response leads to the common excuse for people to behave however they want with no regard for consequences. It actually leads to the path of believing you can do whatever you wish and be forgiven, and frankly the second anyone has that though. "I can do this and be forgiven later" they have already cut themselves off from Gods Grace because they've insulted him right to his face. So many people are simply making excuses for any kind of behavior, and frankly are downright lazy about their approach to any sort of personal responsibility.

I hold myself to it everyday. Make mistakes, and frankly some of them I don't think I should be forgiven for yet because I did them knowing my own principles, and gods principles and I simply did not care. I'm not saying "I can't be" but right now I shouldn't be. Most people aren't that honest with themselves about making a mistake and think making mistakes is just normal growing, there's a big difference between making a mistake that you did not intend to and intentionally making one. A lot of people let themselves off the hook, and I don't let myself off the hook.

Lastly, this has a lot to do with how I am, not from being a JW. Regardless of whether or not I am ever a JW again.

21

No prayer for disfellowshipped ones

by LexWatson in

jw
friends

i'd enjoy reading your comments about prayer.. the wt club says it is inappropriate to pray for those who are disfellowshipped...and we should obey them lest we be shunned and not be part of the organization jehovah is using.. however the bible tells me we should even pray for our enemies!

jesus set the example by even praying for those who were torturing him and murdering him.

"father forgive them!

JamieL

I don't know what everyone elses congregation was like but in ours it was common to pray with anyone who was non-jw who asked you to pray for them or with them and it was encouraged to pray for those who didn't "have the truth" not saying anything about Jws doing tings right or wrong just saying.

And of course they prayed for individuals by name, whenever someone was sick, in the hospital, or even when ones were going thru trials and tribulations. I swear, I'd like to go to some of these congos some mention, I just can't imagine being so incentive, I mean I was DFd for good reason, I did something I knew perfeclty well was not right and then I hid it, and now it's really hard on me, beyond what I should have to be. But it's not as though anyone hated me, sure the usual shunning, but not from my family or select friends.

Someone mentioned they could count on 1 hand the number of times a public prayer mentioned someone by name. I thought they were joking, I guess it just was not that way in my congo or any congo I visited. Oh well, anyway. I have seen a lot of things that have changed on many stances in recent years, I'm not excusing anything, but it's good to see some progress.

1) Attitude towards non-witnesses, to me it was obvious in the publications recently that JWs are not to judge anyone non-JW as they simply cannot judge them (I know I know DFing is conisdered judging, but no one can deny it was a practice in the 1st century to protect the congregation, Paul certainly adhered to it). Even while I've been DFd I saw it discussed on the bookstudy that anyone person you see on the street could certainly be in the new system and you might not expect it, but a person you expect to be there (a fellow JW) might not be.

2) Attitude towards schooling, and various aspects of school life. When I was a teenager a few years ago I was allowed to play sports, participate in all sorts of activities in school. The elders only ever talked to me once to see if I was pursuing this as a serious career option, which I wasn't so it was not a problem. Also it has become apparent to many that some form of education is needed in these days to even be a pioneer, so schooling has opened up.

3) A recent article on DFing was very explicit about putting time restrictions, or not looking at the persons heart when they are asking for forgiveness (again, not many elders apply this very well, or at all in my experience, but it is in the watchtower).

4) Policies have changed about child abuse (mainly cause they had to in light of Bill Bowen in 2002, and even then they are still facing serious letigation, however, it appears as though the society may dissociate themselves from the congo and say policies were in place and individual elders acted without societies approval, and thus the individual elders would be personally liable and would be sued. Man, those are some tricky witnesses)

5) Ministry work. A lot has changed in this aspect to make it more respectful to in the community and not like it used to be. Shouting with plackards or putting a foot in someones door to take command of a conversation. Times change and being brazen is no longer needed to carry on a conversation with someone.

Anyway, say what we will about changing policies just as a cover, or saying it's too little too late (I would know in my case from Child Abuse). At least there is an attempt to change somethings. I would want that of say my government, if there was a problem to speak out about it and have it changed. A lot of religions will never admit to being wrong about anything (JW included, like 1914, or NGO, etc). LIke say Catholicism apologizing for the Spanish Inquisition 500 years later? Get real.

And it does disgruntle me the way being wrong is termed "new light" and their is a slickster way of trying to say well we were not wrong but we just didn't know the right thing yet. It would be especially imperitive to me to apologize for the obscene lack of protection to small children. For instance the one man that confessed to molesting 28-42 different witness girls and it was known, he had told the elders before, and wasn't reported to the authorities? Let alone put out of the congregation. How is that not illegal? It's one thing to not report an accusation (as it's not rquired by law in some places) but to not report a confession of such. I would spit in those elders faces if I ever met one.

But I'm not sure what to do. Blame the men at the top? Blame the men running the congo? Accept that all human led organizations are like this? Or be the best christian I can be....hmmm. Not sure.

21

Sex in the Organization

by Save My Soul in

jw
friends

i have been associated with the organization for almost 40 years.

i have served and been on several assemblies.

i am now irregular, but still attend meetings occassionally.

JamieL

Sex in the Organization, is that not an oxymoron. The only sex I knew being in the organization was, lights out, missionary position only sex.
Will

LMAO. Yeah, I think when I first had sex (well the first time was me getting oral from a sister) but I didn't even consider missionary with the lights out, comeon doggystyle with the blinds open for all to see.

I think we went to Priscillas every week to see what else we could come up with. Good times....

1

Bill Bowen mentioned something about an Awake?

by JamieL in

i was rewatching the cnn newstory on this and he mentioned that there was an awake article on this and aftewerwords the society had a bunch of letters coming in on it so they looked into it.

he said it was 10 years ago, the interview was in 2002. i would be interested which article this was.

he said the jws looked into it and were well aware of the massive amount happening.

JamieL

I was rewatching the CNN newstory on this and he mentioned that there was an Awake article on this and aftewerwords the society had a bunch of letters coming in on it so they looked into it. He said it was 10 years ago, the interview was in 2002. I would be interested which article this was.

He said the Jws looked into it and were well aware of the massive amount happening.

Just interested, not many know me here, but as I said before my brother abused me when I was a kid, so I take this kinda seriously.

21

Sex in the Organization

by Save My Soul in

jw
friends

i have been associated with the organization for almost 40 years.

i have served and been on several assemblies.

i am now irregular, but still attend meetings occassionally.

JamieL

I think it isn't any worse than any where else, it's just the hypocrisy of the supposedly clean organization.

I knew a couple guys that were rumored to have sex with all sorts of non-witness girls by going to all sorts of concerts and pimping their virginity status and wanting to lose it to someone "special" just to hook up.

4

Faultless and exempt from critisism

by KW13 in

jw
friends

i was thinking the other day about how the witnesses will go to any length to show someone what is wrong with their faith and religion.

they may spend years knocking on a catholic, choosing carefully magazines to place with them - having careful discussions hoping to make the individual think carefully about their faith, yet the moment you 'dare' to point anything out the witnesses have done wrong or do wrong you are an apostate.. maybe i have missed something but i believe it was paul who said to keep checking to see whether you are in the truth?.

a dub i know once used an example of counterfeit money, saying how much easier it is to look for the real money than constantly looking through all the counterfeit ones.

JamieL

Well blood and the cross are easily proved out by the Bible. And modern technology of course, blood is one of those things that is mudied by things such as plasma and whether or not it's ok to use bood derivitives. But blood transfusions have proved have reasons as to why to not have them and bloodless surgery is a lot better for recovery times and patient health. The cross, well who really needs a symbol to believe in God? And considering the fact it would be impossible for water to have filled in Jesus unless his hands were above his head, and history proves out the Romans didn't do crusifictions on crosses till after Christianity was made the national religion in the 3rd or 4th century.

Anyway, the points I would argue are 1914, NGO status (my god really?) and child abuse. Cause those are the most glaring things that are hypocritical. And the Child Abuse in partcular because Catholacism was blasted so hard for it, yet I believe per Capita in Jws there are more pedofiles than any other religion because of the 2 witness must observe or you have to prove abuse.

Child abuse is the biggest one to me. And a lot of people simply let it roll off their shoulders like it is not happening. But it's well documented that the government authorities once involved have proved some are pedofiles yet the congo still defended them over the accuser and even banished accusers from the congregation. I would have a very hard time ever having a kid in the congo and if they reported something to me once I would get the polices involved immediately.

21

Sex in the Organization

by Save My Soul in

jw
friends

i have been associated with the organization for almost 40 years.

i have served and been on several assemblies.

i am now irregular, but still attend meetings occassionally.

JamieL

Since the late 90s I think it has become less common to have massive DFings of teenagers. I did see them sometimes when I was a kid in the 90s. But now, not so much. Before I got Dfd, I got to know some of my ex's teenage friends and I was shocked. Almost all of them had done stuff and more than once. Commonly oral sex a lot of the time. Maybe not intercourse. And some of them were baptized and done it 5 or 6 times and not Dfd at all. Some congos play favorites.

Another thing I notice is if you were active, commenting, out in field service, etc. Even if you were doing something wrong you got the slap on the hand reproof a lot of times. Even though being a hypocrite with the pioneer attitude of perfection.

When I started having sex I stopped all the things I did that were responsibilities in the congregation, I stopped commenting and going in field service. Why would I? I mean that would make me such a hypocrite to pretend that I was this perfect little pioneer. But I got Dfd for it, I can't help but wonder if I was doing all those things if I would have just got a slap. Hmmmm.

13

Yeah, so I go to the meeting the other day

by JamieL in

jw
friends

so i live in indiana, and we got a lot of snow the other day.

so i come home from work and it is really pretty bad out, but i've lived in indiana a long time and i've driven in snow and it's not hard you just need to be careful.

so i go to the meeting (yeah i'm dfd i told all you guys this).

JamieL

Yes, I'm aware I don't need a KH to be moral. But I believe in Jehovah and his principles and the bible, so I think I do need prayer, study, and the responsibility that goes with saying your worship Jehovah in your heart.

What I am saying is that it does help to keep me level headed and reminds me of the need to try to keep my morality as it relates to trying to worship Jehovah.

One of the problems is I don't have many friends, if any actually. I don't come to think of it, I work and have those guys at work, but we don't hang out. I live alone.

I too have been surprised at some of the good decisions most human beings make. I don't look down on anyone for what they do, but I do disagree with some things that they do. But I've also known from experience people that you think seem good, but when push comes to shove they will choose themselves over anything else and what matters to them personally. And a lot of what human beings desire inside becomes greater because of choosing what we want first. And then it gets taken further, to say cheating, drinking in excess, hurting people, even killing.

I mean, I've hung out with all kinds of people, I was on the sailing team in college and that was one of the greatest experiences of my life. But it was one giant excuse to party, but I was able to keep myself thru it all. I never did something I thoght would have been wrong, never did drugs, never slept with anyone I wasn't committed to. But people around there were doing all those things and worse. Does it make them a bad person? I don't know, maybe. They might have good intentions, but our actions define what our hearts really desire. So I also don't think we can just excuse peoples behavior. I mean a lot of people in the Bible say like David, he was torn over what he did, it didn't make it less wrong, and he suffered consequences for it. How many people do you see that torn at heart over the things they have done? Crying out for forgiveness over it. I see a lot of people who seem like they don't think that anything is off limits and you should do it all and not care let alone feel bad over it. So should there be consequences?

Who knows, I'm not god, but I know what I think is wrong and what I think is right and if someone asks me I certainly wouldn't shy from telling them what I think or excusing someones behavior. That's my whole thing, if I was ever to leave for good, what would I become? I know a lot of witnesses that have left that turn to all kinds of behavior that would be wrong for anyone thinking rationally, I don't think it's fair to say "well they were restricted for so long and they are just acting out" I just think if anyone were to leave make sure you intend to live a good life and not just be angry, or be hurtful, or just try to get yours because you feel so taken advantage of for so long.

Anyway, that's how I feel. And as far as therapy, I'm kinda a cheap skate, so I would rather get it out this way. My insurance I don't believe would cover such a thing, maybe when I have more money, or something along those lines. Or can anyone recommend something that might be cheap, say less than hundreds of dollars an hour?