Posts by neverendingjourney

55

generation teaching reconsidered

by inbetween in

was thinking about this new generation teaching, and to some extend it makes sense, let me explain.. first of all, i personally believe, it only applied to jesus time, it only made sense there, and when jesus talked about it, in the year 33, this generation certainly observed the events leading to jerusalems destruction 70 ce.

( even though the context does not really give much hint, since he talks about the sign of the son of man being seen in heaven etc, something that did not happen in the first century).

the main question is, what is a generation ?.

neverendingjourney

It still can't believe how shitty an explanation they managed to come up with to explain their prophetic failure. Overlapping generations?!?! Really??? 15 years since the '95 generation change and that's the best they could come up with!

Stick three or four of the brightest minds on this board in a room for a few hours and they could have come up with a much better explanation than this. It's really pathetic and produces no confidence in the GB's ability to steer this massive organization throughout the 21st, but I suppose that's a good thing.

103

Which Governing body member will die next?? Will things change?

by Witness 007 in

i will review this post when it happens so.....prophecy time!

who will guess correct!

my $50 is on theodore jarc born in 1925?

neverendingjourney

once the old guard has passed, Losch will turn the enterprise into something bat-shit crazier than you could possibly imagine.

Losch truly scares me. In COC Ray Franz talks about three men who viewed the brotherhood with great suspicion: Henschel, Barry and Jaracz. The first two have long since become worm food, and Jaracz has seemingly cemented himself as the de facto leader of the bunch, but Losch seems to be a worthy successor.

I got to see Losch at a few assemblies and he just exudes a severe disdain for the brothers. It's almost as if he feels they're all a bunch of disgusting sinners in need of discipline, like a head nun at a boarding school. His talks were very accusatory in nature. He always seemed to want to fill in the gray ares with concrete examples, listing specific movies, songs, bands, sporting events and such that a Christian should not be involved with.

While some may feel a guy like this could accelerate the Watchtower's downfall, I'm afraid he could alienate me from my JW family in the many years in the interim.

27

Personal Story: Trying to Help the Flock

by OnTheWayOut in

and told him that we needed to handle both cases.

and his buddy.

's buddy on the case.

neverendingjourney

It's all horse shit. Not your story, but JW politics.

My very first exposure this type of corruption came when I was 18, a regular pioneer and about as gung-ho as one could possibly be. I bought into JWism when I was 15 years old. I hadn't developed the necessary critical thinking skills with which to fight off faulty JW logic. As a consequence, I believed in JW doctrine 100%.

My brother (now an elder) invited me to a get-together of sorts. It was at an elder's house, so I joined him. My brother had already told me about his sketchy nature, but I had never met the guy. When I got there, I realized they were gathered to watch a pay-per-view boxing match. The elder was there with his two very "worldly looking" daughters along with their "worldly looking" boyfriends. There were four or five other young JWs in attendance, some of whom were underage. Everybody was drinking, however, so I downed a couple beers myself. Also in attendance were a few non-JWs who cussed like sailors. During the boxing match it became clear that several in attendance had drank to the point of intoxication (or near intoxication). I was shocked. Had my elders gotten a wind of this, we would have all been dragged into meetings and would have probably been stripped of whatever titles we may have held.

What I didn't realize at the time is that my brother had become desensitized to this type of thing because much, much worse was going on. It didn't register in his mind that I might find this type of gathering offensive. As time went by I heard of things going on among JW teens that would have made a frat boy blush, and much of it was being covered up by elders. Of course, I didn't get exposed to much of this because people knew I was an all-in JW. It was clear, however, that there was a freely-operating subculture of JW youths acting as "worldly" as the real "worldly" kids.

I became inactive in my mid-20s and that's when I began to get exposure to some of the real corruption in the JW organization. Let's just say that I've personally been in attendance at a 30 year old elder's quasi-birthday party in which various youths in attendance smoked cigarettes, got drunk to the point of vomiting all over the place, and even smoked marijuana. I know it might seem difficult for some of you to believe, and I would have never believed it myself if I were still the same naive 18 year old I once was. But I witnessed this with my own eyes.

10

There's a troll in the yard!

by Nellie in

ok - true story!.

my friend runs a diner/restaurant in a small rural town in georgia (population 400).

one of the waitresses has a 15-year old downs syndrome son who she occassionally leaves home alone while she works.

neverendingjourney

I've heard this story, too. It was told by a "worldly" co-worker. The midget was a JW in her version. She doesn't know that i used to be a JW myself.

25

Was Watchtower Elder Correct To Say This Dance Style was Unchristian?.

by Scott77 in

after watching this traditional / cultural dance below, do you think the elder was right to brand it as unchristian?

if yes, then is there such thing as a 'christian dance'?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90xrdyruyn8&feature=player_embedded.

neverendingjourney

An elder at my old hall confidently declared from the platform that ALL forms of dance involving unmarried persons were prohibited.

He was disfellowshipped about a month later...he had secretly been having an affair.

34

Do We Give WTS Too Much Credit? Are They Maybe Just Dummies?

by OnTheWayOut in

i know many just want to shout yes to that second question, but hold on a second.. i go back and forth wondering if there is evil intent to manipulate and lie to the "flock" through the pages of watchtower and from the platform at conventions or if they really believe most of their own nonsense.. i won't load my post with endless examples (but feel free to use them) of this.

i will post just two to make my thoughts.

sometimes, i read comments about their long-term planning to get more money or lose less money and gain more members or retain more of the captives.

neverendingjourney

One more thing:

It's also important to note what Ray Franz says is one of the two primary motivating factors behind GB decision making: The desire to uphold traditional policies.

If the traditional JW policy is to encourage JWs to donate their estates, the GB is likely to vote to continue that policy. If the traditional policy is to discourage education, that policy will be continued. This is especially true because a 2/3 votes is required to change a traditional policy. At least that was the case in 1980 when Ray last sat on the GB.

This motivation can lead to contradictory policies being issued. See, Malawi vs. Mexico.

34

Do We Give WTS Too Much Credit? Are They Maybe Just Dummies?

by OnTheWayOut in

i know many just want to shout yes to that second question, but hold on a second.. i go back and forth wondering if there is evil intent to manipulate and lie to the "flock" through the pages of watchtower and from the platform at conventions or if they really believe most of their own nonsense.. i won't load my post with endless examples (but feel free to use them) of this.

i will post just two to make my thoughts.

sometimes, i read comments about their long-term planning to get more money or lose less money and gain more members or retain more of the captives.

neverendingjourney

I think it's important to point out that the two views (evil geniuses vs. braindead believers) aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.

It's quite possible that there are competing camps on the GB and the ultimate policy that gets made depends on what the GB "centrists" end up deciding, whoever those "centrists" may be.

Think about it in terms of what happens at the US Supreme Court. If you try to analyze their opinions, it often seems as if the institution is bipolar. One year it'll rule one way, the next year another way. Of course, we have the benefit of finding out how the vote went down and reading the judge's opinions. We can determine who the liberals, conservatives and centrists are. You don't get a consistent, harmonious pattern of decisions from the court because it's governed by committee (9 justices) and the ultimate deciders are the swing votes.

I'll give you an example: In 1986 the US Supreme Court upheld the constitutionality of state laws against sodomy. In 2003, less than 20 years later, the Court struck down such laws finding sexual behavior to be protected under the constitution. What changed? The composition of the Court and social norms.

If you view JW leadership as a singular, harmonious unit, then one can easily become perplexed at the seemingly contradictory policies that are handed down. However, if you view leadership as an often-fragmented committee like the Supreme Court, then it becomes easier to understand why there are conflicting messages being sent. Sometimes JW leadership sends messages reflecting a long-term manipulative view, such as trying to get JWs to donate their estates and their continual real estate expansion. Sometimes they reflect a naive view of the world with imminent destruction in mind, such as when they discourage education and childbearing.

It all depends on which faction wins out on the GB, but of course, that's all invisible to us.

35

First Time that I Didn't Go to the Memorial - Now Depressed

by daniel-p in

jw
friends

so this was the very first time in my whole life that i didn't go to the memorial.

my wife went, and she was sullen before and after... i know she wanted me to go.

i told her afterwards that if she wants me to go next year i would, but she didn't say anything.

neverendingjourney

I'm not married, so I can't speak to that part of it, but after I left JWism, I experienced feelings of guilt/depression every time I broke a new taboo. I think part of it was sheer instinct.

It's been a few years since I've stepped inside a Kingdom Hall and I still get these feelings from time to time. Two weeks ago I brought home a woman and felt real guilty the next day. It was the ol' JW instincts kicking in, I guess.

Hang in there, man. Your wife is probably worried about you due to her JW progamming. Just keep in mind that the programming serves to keep people like you in the fold, so to speak.

16

"large but mainstream" brings what changes next?

by agent zero in

in some other threads there has been talk of wether the organization will go large and mainstream or small and hard-core in the upcoming years.. in the past few years, the sunday public talk has been shortened, the bookstudy eliminated (at least as a seperate meeting night), #2 talks are down to a simple read-through, and a little longer ago pioneering hour requirements have been shortened.

personally i would take these as signs of them going more soft and keeping a larger membership.. if this is indeed the case, what would you suspect of being cut off or changed next?.

a0.

neverendingjourney

Dropping the blood ban or dropping shunning would be the sure-fire signs that they've decided to pursue a mainstream path. You can argue they've taken steps in that direction already by making "fractions" a conscience matter, but those two things, above all else, prevent them from every being seen as truly mainstream.

76

Door to Door Message? A DIVERSION! Where does the MONEY go??

by Terry in

the door to door work is a sham.. the central activity of the watchtower bible and tract society is not spreading their so-called "message" about the kingdom of jehovah established in the heavens in 1914.. that's a load of propaganda.. the door to door activity is feckless in producing converts.

in fact, it is an immense failure of mammoth proportions!.

but, it is a diversion.

neverendingjourney

Mainstream religion has to do something PUBLICLY with the money they raise like pay for air-time, pay for orphanages in Africa, pay for a new transmitter, pay for a new steeple or glass cathedral or theme park

Mainstream religions also typically encourage members to tithe, whereas JW don't. Your post assumes JWs bring in revenues comparable to "mainstream religions", but do they? Neither you nor I know the answer to that question since the WT books aren't open to public inspection, but I suspect WT revenues per capita are significantly lower than other religions because (1) their members are poorer on average than those of mainstream Christiandom and (2) JWs are not required to tithe.

Hell, on a good month I dropped $20 in the contribution box. I used to be the assistant account servant at my old Hall, and we would average well short of $1000 in contributions a month, this in a congregation that had over 100 publishers. Typically, we would recieve anywhere between $100 and $300 a month for the WT Worldwide Work fund.

You'd have a much stronger argument if the WT still charged for the literature as it did back in the 80s. Every JW I spoke with who was involved in the accounts at that time told me that there was a significant drop off in donations after the voluntary donation arrangement went into effect.