if i only got a nickel every time i heard an x jdub say i should write a book, i'd be a zillioniare.
I say- more power to you all. The more books there are out there on the topic, the more coverage the issue will get. The more coverage there is- the more steam the movement will pick up. Besides, I imagine its somewhat cleansing to write a book about a painful experience.
There can never be too many books, websites, blogs, etc on this subject.
for me it was the fact that god is allowing all these innocent people to get killed to prove a point ,i mean it was a big bet he had with satan.. i explained it to my wife this way if i had our children killed in the most horriable way just to show they couldn't live without me how does that make me look?.
The teaching that most of the books of Isaiah and Revelation were actually prophecies about 9 guys going to prison in 1917 for about 16 months. Seemed like an awful waste of prophetic power. I remember saying (while I was an elder)- "Its a good thing those guys went to prison- otherwise we wouldn't understand the whole book of Isaiah"
The genocide thing got to me too.
And one of the final straws- How exactly do you make the world a paradise after killing 99% of the humans??
on another thread purporting to start a discussion of this work, some suggested that it be restarted in a new thread, as the consideration there had begun in a polluted way and had only stayed at that level.
since things poorly begun usually end worse, i am starting the thread as some have requested.
i am currently beginning to read age of reason, and will return to it from time to time as time itself allows.
OK- you guys got me reading this- now you have to put up with my comments and my BTT. 1st response- I can't believe that this guy wrote what he wrote 300 years ago and there are still fundamentalists in the world. What an intelligent, reasoned indictment of popular religious ideas. I love his reasoning on the subject of the ransom. If someone is convicted of murder and another person stands up and says, "I'll take the punishment for him" No one would consider that to be justice. And yet it is at the core of the whole set of dogma about redemption.
paragraph 15: "as we get nearer to the outbreak of the great tribulation, we may well receive some detailed instructions.
our safe journey through those troublesome days will depend on our keeping in step with other loyal servants of jehovah.
" this in the context of a wt discussing the israelites' exodus from egypt and how jehovah had them into a position where there seemed "no way out".
It made me ask myself how most JW's would react if instructed to do something which would endanger their life.
Well- we already know the answer to that one...They'll sign cards asking to die rather than accept blood. You just have to be tricky and find the new light in a bible verse. (dont worry about context or historical meaning)
If you want to find an apostate- look where the last ones came from. Someone deep in the writing, teaching and researching group. (Franz and Dunlap figured out the truth while writing the Aid Book). And I don't think there would be a "suspicion" of an apostate. Just someone having severe doubts who eventually reaches a tipping point.
if the end does not come in 10 years then nothing is going to change.
here is my reasoning.. in our hall we have friends whose grandparents thought the end was coming in 1914 then in 1925.. well they died and still our friends believe the end is near.
our friends had parents who.
I'm with Oompa- maybe the end came sometime during the middle ages and we just havent caught on yet. Or maybe it came in 70 when the entire Jewish system of things was rocked.....Or maybe "the end" is an unhealthy obsession...
i see allot of people here that is in the know i mean really in the know and am very great full for being in these discussion with you all.
since this is such a large subject to us all and all have different strong points in it, im sure we can come up with some form of hypothesis when this organization is going to implode on its self or when its about to but before it does it bails last minute by changing some doctrine around so it doesnt completely fall but keep enough for them to survive again for it to rebuild, as theyve done so many times in the past.
history for some reason tends to always repeat it self, i truly believe its about that time.
I think comparing JWs to Catholicism or Islam is a bit generous. More like- when did Millerites crash? Or Puritans? Or Dutch Baptists? Answer is- they never really "crashed" just became less and less popular until there were very few congregations left. People split off to form new religions that were more conservative, more liberal, more in touch, more bible based, whatever. The remaining congregants got older and older and new recruits fell off until they were a quaint backwards religion in one particular region. I think that is the future of JWs.
i need some help on the holy trinity.
my husband is studying with the witnesses (he's not one of them yet), and is totally buying into the idea that god, jesus and the holy spirit are all separate, not (as i've tried to explain) separate, but also one in the trinity.
i have pointed out the scriptures in john that reference god as the word, and then jesus as the word later.
A little advice- Don't take on the Trinity- he is being taught that the WT's interpretation is the most logical and therefore all other religions are false. There is easier, lower hanging fruit.
You are right to be concerned about him entering this group- and for reasons that are much more significant than the Trinity. Look around here, you'll see what I mean. Check into teachings on blood, holidays, social separation from non-believing family and friends, anti-citizenry positions, anti-college and education teachings, previous unfulfilled prophecies, and there are many others.
i was told not to even look at them when i studied, but i did not buy the satan stuff about them and said well what have the watchtower got to worry about if they have the truth and no skeletons in the closet ?
i was quite tempted to speak to them and felt rude and judgemental , what did you used to think about them when you were dubs in the trufff ?
Are you ready for this....
Seeing apostates was a facet of convincing myself that I really did have the truth. After all- only the faithful and discreet slave would be persecuted by an evil slave. Catholics who don't believe just don't show up- they dont show up with signs screaming and yelling. Plus, it allowed me to see "them" as a single, monolithic group- "The Apostates". (This is something WT does a good job at- demonizing "Apostates" as a class and convincing everyone that they are a single, uniform, united group)
So.... you could say that the apostates at assemblies had the opposite of the intended effect- for me. (Thank goodness Al Gore invented the internet.)
what do you think about the reduced time of the public talks?.
i actually find it pleasant, it makes it a lot easier to tolerate some of the boring speakers.
but what about the service.
This change is about more control over speakers. Most of the public talk outlines you cant read outloud and read the important scriptures in 30 minutes. There is no time for additional info, experiences, illustrations, etc. It is just another step in controlling what is said during the meetings. Why didn't they shorten the WT study??? because they don't care about convenience, giving extra time for service, etc- they care about controlling what the public speaker says.
