Posts by lalliv01

384

A STUNNINGLY simple question about JOHN 3:16 "For God so Loved the world."

by Terry in

on what basis did god so love the world?.

the world of mankind had been condemned to death by god's curse in eden!.

god viewed mankind as "dust on the scales".

lalliv01

Terry, how about this? God loved the world so much that He provided a "whipping boy" to accept the punishment in lieu of the world. Why? Well, just as in days of old, a noble person was too important to be literally whipped for a misdeed so a substitute, a scapegoat, was used to receive the punishment meant for the "important" person. So then, "the world" must be so important in God's eyes that a scapegoat had to be produced to receive the alloted punishment.

How is the world of mankind important to God? Well, to a dead person the universe does not exist, God does not exist. The scriptures tell us that God is not a God of the dead but of the living. This makes sense since the dead know not that a god exists and hence could not worship him. Without "the world" of mankind there is no god, no fulfillment of His intended purpose for creating mankind. His purpose, reverting everything back to Him, making Him the "decider", then is the reason for Gods repentence and thereby making Himself the basis for "justice" in this matter.

God wants a world of perfect humans to exist on this earth and this could only happen if He, and only He, contravened to put a halt to mankind's eventual extinction.

No world=No God=A God that cannot fulfill His purposes. Can't have that, where's the whipping boy?

60

DID GOD CREATE THE BEST OF ALL POSSIBLE WORLDS???

by Terry in

is this the best of all possible worlds?.

had god created a world in which he invested humans with adherence to inner, god designed morality guidance--wouldn't an obedient (and far better off human race) world not have been "better" than the one we are in?.

free will is only the freedom to screw up.. think about this.. everything man designs is designed to function properly.

lalliv01

If GOD COULD create the BEST of all possible worlds--is this world it?

Terry, I think He's trying again. It's called the "new creation, the annointed, the bride........" I understand they are supposed to be immortal AND incapable of commiting a mistake. As for free will, well, how does one explain that?

384

A STUNNINGLY simple question about JOHN 3:16 "For God so Loved the world."

by Terry in

on what basis did god so love the world?.

the world of mankind had been condemned to death by god's curse in eden!.

god viewed mankind as "dust on the scales".

lalliv01

A very interesting thread. Sadly, to me, so anticlimatic. I've been reading and reading hoping to see a truly convincing answer to the question posed in this thread, so far, none. I read an article, some time back, which stated that when newspapers receive a lot of mail, feedback, concerning an article written in that paper's 'op-ed' section, that makes them very happy and they consider it a sucess, no matter whether the feedback is pro or con. Even when people write in to say how unhappy they are with the opinion stated in said article and that they are going to cancel their subscriptions to that newspaper. They have succeeded in stimulating people, and that's what they (newspaper and author) wanted. In this, TERRY, I would say you have succeeded.

Now, my attempt to answer the question posted on this thread. I would say God cared. He cared, maybe, in the same way a soldier cares about an enemy soldier he has just shot trying to kill that soldier that is now a wounded soldier. He just tried to kill that enemy soldier, now he is concerned in trying to save that same soldiers life. Why? Because he is now concerned, interested in that person's condition in the same way hospital workers are concerned with the state of infirm people coming into their sphere of influence. Why? It would immoral not to care, to not be concerned with those in need.

lalliv01

37

PERSPECTIVE is largely a matter of everyday conditioning

by Terry in

jw
friends

what seems normal and natural to us comes from what we are around every day.

the things we hear and see are familiar.

even the wildest, weirdest things are commonplace when they are common around our place!.

lalliv01

Terry asks:

Is it possible--ever--to escape our perspective?

Terry,I don't believe that we can escape our perspective, no! But I do believe we can and should change our perspective when appropriate. I find that when something happens in my life that brings sadness or disappointment to me, if I just remember to take the perspective that in a few years I'm going to be gone and that nothing bad that is now making me feel bad is going to matter then, I begin to heal.

I remember when my son scratched my new automobile with his bike, oh how that scratch hurt me (this happened some 30 years ago). I was so angry with my son and I was sad and quite depressed. My defense to this unhappiness was to remember that that car was someday going to be an ugly piece of junk, no sense in wallowing in that, at the time, present day depression.

I suppose perspective is what we can make of it, sort of like walking a mile in someone else's shoes.

18

On the futility of everything

by Qcmbr in

jw
friends

once again i'm in a philosophical mood: .

we spend our time in avoiding death as though the absence of being was our primary reason or motivator and yet our mere existence is clearly not fulfilling in and of itself (for a nightmare example ask yourself- would you rather die or live in a fully conscious state but be totally paralysed and unable to communicate.

if existence alone is not enough yet we will give almost anything to continue to exist what is it that we are actually aiming for?

lalliv01

If the permanence of the achievement is inversely proportional to the enjoyment of such achievement then we can track this back simply to a claim that we crave novelty -

For a God that knows all, sees all - is all there is to be - He must surely be a very bored god. He's seen it all, done it all; For God there is no such thing as novelty.

It pains me to even think about it. At least we have the "hope" of death, Not He.

Lalliv01

22

WT Comments (2/4 NO WEAPON) FEATURING JGNAT

by V in

lalliv01

jgnat, what a fine WT commentary. I enjoyed reading your comments with clean, calm language--no dirty language--........thank you.

lalliv01

46

IF IT AIN'T BROKE---WHY would they FIX IT?

by Terry in

here is a bible quiz.

answer each question to the best of your ability.. 1.when god has sent a prophet to speak in his name, what is the standard which must be met?.

2. if a prophecy fails, what does it indicate about the prophet?.

lalliv01

Terry, great post. Makes one wonder why any people would willingly and knowingly submit to living under the harsh rule of a domineering, totalitarian, fascist government. And they, JW's, are doing it and, in many instances, reporting anyone within their group that strays or attempts to look for truth.

I don't think it was this way in Russell's day. I believe the Bible Students really were trying to obtain bible truth and at the same time tolerated the many differences that existed among them. Was there a time in Russell's day when DFíng, marking, and shunning were even practiced? People from different religious denominations coming together in bible study in sincerety has ended up in terrible oppression for said people.

Was this really what Russell wanted? I may be wrong, but I believe he really was a god fearing man, influenced by his mother, perhaps, that wanted the truth from the scriptures and it all went awry in our time.

79

Warning To All Posters Here!!!

by SWALKER in

jw
friends

i just found out that a dear friend of mine was outed by a poster on this board!!!

i am soooooo angry and disgusted it's hard to contain at the moment!

so to all those out there that are trying to fade and get other family members out, don't let anyone know who you are!!!

lalliv01

so do we continue to live in fear of being found out by the hounders? Is that really freedom? So we may not want to be outed, but we accept that risk by being here...
greater the risk (of being outed and/or DF and/or losing JW friends and family) = greater potential reward (ie... making new friends, enjoying freedom to think)
just my opinion

How awful. We read about people like Galileo, Isaac Newton, A. lincoln and many others that hid their thoughts and ideas from an intolerant populace and we feel sad and angry that they had to endure such,but we balme it all on a backward and uneducated world, that would never happen in our enlightened age. Yeah, right!

Afraid to live and let live, that's where many, Jews, Mormons, JW's, Muslims, etc. are at. I say, leave me alone and I will also leave you alone. If my friends, including my family, (extended et. al.), don't wish to associate with me because of my beliefs, beliefs, not a debouched life style, then so be it. I wish no one harm or ill and, I can live with myself. Tranquil.

It's sad that some have to live in fear of the very ones they love and hold dear, hiding and maybe even hurting their own consciences by having to lie in order to get by. I feel for these ones and hope they overcome, somehow

62

WELCOME NEWBIES - all of you! Check in here, I'm losing track of you.

by AWAKE&WATCHING in

jw
friends

i just saw the eighth post by botheyesopen.

i noticed aliciaj, dogaradodya, chicken little, cognac, hypnotic, mochalatte.. some have been welcomed and some have not.. .

we have so many i can't keep up so.... .

lalliv01

Hello everyone! I do enjoy this site. On this site are all kinds of people who all share common ground with me and with each other, most of us were JW's and we all know what that is like. I really do find it strange that we all, even though we are spread all over the globe, have such a common and strong relationship.

I was a witness since 1957, left in 1989. I did it all, the good, the bad, the ugly. In my adult life I really made a sincere efffort to be a good Christian as a JW. I worked to be a good husband, father, son, and sheperd to the flock but, I had too many unanswered questions about the faith. I always left the meetings feeling wholly unsatisfied and sad. And no, I do not, and never have suffered from depression, except when my dear little brother passed away, what an awful feeling, but the meetings left me depressed.

As a confession: I would listen to televengelists and they would leave me feeling in a much better mood than would the JW propaganda and I would wonder, how can that be?

After I retired, as a railroader, I started fooling around with the computer and I found this site, what an intersting place this is. I don't need, and have never needed a place like this to make me feel whole, happy, or justified in my life choices, but I am glad I found this place. My wife is in the exact same place I am in and just as happy. She wanted to leave the org. before I did but she obediently kept quiet because she knew how devoted I was and she didn't want to upset me or our lifes. I found this out after I decided to escape from the "gestapo", and she was so happy. We continue to be happy in our freedom.

She confessed to me that she HATED field service. She is a considerate person and she hated bothering people because she, herself, hates being bothered by "sales people."

I don't type well at all, it takes me some time to type so that is one reason I don't post. I dread the idea of posting and then having to contend with answering all the respondents, oh no, no!

But, I do enjoy lurking.

I am having a hard time believing in intelligent creationism or the Genesis account. I also am having a hard time staying away from asking Jehovah for the truth about everything. That's where I'm at. Thank you all.

41

Here's the reason for the 3% jump in publishers for the past year

by sir82 in

jw
friends

it is immigration that explains the vast majority of the increase.. who is it that immigrates?

the poorest of the poor, the desperate ones that would be dead from starvation or execution by gangs/guerillas within 5 years anyway.

these were not the ones being converted in their home countries - when you have to work 14-18 hours a day, 7 days a week just to feed your family, there is no time to "study", attend meetings, go out in field servce, etc.. so, they go to their new country.

lalliv01

From personal experience, Hispanic immigrants are persons that come from a culture that absolutely believes in the existence of God. They are engulfed completely by such believes as a supreme Creator, the devil, demons, witchcraft, spells,etc.. They learn these things from the entire village almost unconciously, as if by osmosis; no-one even thinks about the possibility that there may not be a god. Kids learn about God and other bible related matters from their mates, on the street corners, or wherever kids mingle. There really aren't many grownups taking time to teach these young ones about the bible.

But, when they come to America hey, here's someone, at their door, ready and willing to teach them some things about which they already believe, yet never studied. God, Satan, witchcraft, spells, everlasting life, right there in the bible. Now they don't have to learn it from fellow workers or schoolmates, they have a real teacher who is willing to provide them with their own copy of the bible.

I don't believe they join up because they have more time on their hands, no, now they can study and learn about that which they have always believed, believed without a doubt. Had they been reared in a society of scientists, perhaps their core beliefs and weaknesses would be different.

My thoughts on this matter, from my personal experience.