Other possible reasons???
http://nys.netsos.com/site/files/Accommodating_Religion.pdf - very intersting read...
still_in74
JoinedPosts by still_in74
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40
No More Work on Saturdays at Bethels Worldwide
by Lost-In-Translation ina letter was read at tonight's meeting announcing that the governing body has decided to stop work on saturdays at all bethels worldwide.
bethel workers are encouraged to now spend saturdays with their local congregation in field service.
the new arrangement goes into effect june, 2009.. what do you think are the motives for such a change?.
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still_in74
What happened to the floodwaters after the Flood? They must have drained into the sea basins. How? Scientists believe that the continents rest on huge plates......
What the hell is that? the WTS proposes a guess as to why the flood waters receeded and then follow it with "scientists believe..." ???
Is this a REVERSE bait and switch?? Tell a lie and then appearto support it with science?
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Please help me with an educated response to this JW email .....
by troubled mind in> sujet: fait committee de liaison hospitalier:.
translation -- march 22, 2009 -- garry melchert.
we would like to share with you an experience related by brother baudril, from the hospital liason committee, during a recent circuit assembly in marseille.. .
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still_in74
thr "brothers" propose EPO and the dr's accept??? (because dr's dont know what EPO is? I think it safe to assume dr.'s developed EPO to begin with-not the almighty Liason committee)
the "brothers" propose a 4th day?? (because the dr.'s wanted to stop and risk all the improvement?)
WTF? So the "brothers" are providing health care now? So doctors just wait around now for direction from the WTS about what to do? Is there a hotline now that dr.'s call when they are out of ideas as to how to treat patients so then the WTS can propose a treatment method for the dr's?? These emails are rediculous....
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Elder giving special talk has lunch with us...shuts me down for asking about society money..lol?
by Witness 007 inwe had a nice lunch with the elder giving the "special talk" but the conversation turned toward the cancelled bookstudy....well i went on to explain how knorr made too many meetings for brothers with families and how good it was to have a free night {even though i go to one meeting a week} then i said: "well, headquarters seems to have a very buisness smart brother working there with the publications now for donations due to tax and selling all those buildings in the heart of new york for millions and moving out....{elder interupts me] "yes, but, jehovah is the one who is buisness smart brother..." i thought wtf!
weird response, like was it too un-spiritual?
did jehoover really "tell" brothers to sell in new york?
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still_in74
your comments, though true, support a "fleshly view" of the WTS. That is 'dangerous, to the org. JW's must always view all actions of the WTS as spiritually motivated and in harmony with Jehovahs 'arrangement'.
You need to always give credit to Jehovah or someone in the room will inevitabley interupt and do it for you.
PLUS - you talked about things that most JW's dont, the fact that you mentioned Knorr, taxes, and selling buildings all in the same sentence was a pretty good indication that you have been on the internet. I tend to put a little more space between those comments if you know what I mean...
Ballsy though.... I'll give you that!
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Of all known religious beliefs which one seems most reasonable?
by The Berean inbuddhism would be my choice ....
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still_in74
agnosticism...
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This is not a spoof: New Light Suggestion for the Governing Body
by journey-on in(bookmark this 'cause if the gb uses it, #1 we will know they watch this site; #2 you heard it here first...
lol!).
their dilemma: as we know, the gb is between a rock and a hard place right now.
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still_in74
again, i still dont see the org attempting to connect 144k with ALL JW's - this is too finite, the WTS has learned its lesson from making specific dates and interpretations that lock them into a teaching. They prefer ambiguous statements and implications that can be modified after the fact to have always appeared to be what they "meant in the first place".
by simply making the 144k mean more, they dont set a specific number, they dont make the "new world order" seem way out in the future, they can say its still close but quash any attempts to expose the ludicrous reality of only having miniscual numbers of annointed for almost 2 millenia, they essentially make the 144k not mean "anything" anymore regarding the last days. There is not speculation about numbers or connection to dates pertaining to the number of remant. We are in the last days solely because the "physical facts prove" we are - and it has NOTHING to do with the annointed.
Perfect.
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This is not a spoof: New Light Suggestion for the Governing Body
by journey-on in(bookmark this 'cause if the gb uses it, #1 we will know they watch this site; #2 you heard it here first...
lol!).
their dilemma: as we know, the gb is between a rock and a hard place right now.
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still_in74
while i think your "generationally connected" theory is a stretch, I do think the 144k will need to be made symbolic - or as you suggest, changed to mean more than 144k.
This is in fact, probably on of the best suggestions/speculations i have heard yet. For to make the 144k symbolic could unleash enormous backlash for the org as this brings them one step closer to the teachings of christendom - and after all, the FDS should know more than christendom right?? They would never want to suggest that as light gets brighter they become more and more like christendom/babylon the great would they???
BUT - by making the "literal" 144,000 mean more than 144k actual people it is a win-win. They keep all their old interpretations largely intact and solve the problem of having such a low limit on the annointed - after all, as the numbers increase some Dubs are going to start connecting the dots with history and ask the question how for 1900 years there were only a miniscual number of annointed?
Is there a precident for this????
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*** it-1pp.779-780Exodus In the census shortly after the Exodus the Levites were counted separately, and those from a month old upward numbered 22,000. (Nu 3:39) The question may arise as to why among all the other 12 tribes there were only 22,273 firstborn males from a month old upward. (Nu 3:43) This can easily be understood when the fact is appreciated that family heads were not counted, that because of polygamy a man might have many sons but only one firstborn, and that it was the firstborn son of the man and not of the woman that was counted. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------*** g72 3/8 pp. 27-28 Can Apparent Numerical Discrepancies Be Resolved? ***There are times when seeming discrepancies cannot be so easily resolved. Especially is this the case in connection with the numbers given in the books of Ezra (2:1-67) and Nehemiah (7:6-69). Both books list the number of persons from various families or houses who returned from Babylonian exile with Zerubbabel. The accounts harmonize in giving 42,360 as the total number of returned exiles, apart from slaves and singers. (Ezra 2:64; Neh. 7:66) However, there are variations in the numbers given for individual families or houses. In both listings the individual figures yield a total of far less than 42,360. Many scholars would attribute these differences to scribal errors. Whereas this aspect cannot be wholly discounted, there are other possible explanations for the variations.
It may be that Ezra and Nehemiah based their listings on different sources. For example, Ezra could have used a document listing those who enrolled to return to their homeland, whereas Nehemiah might have copied from a record listing those who actually returned. Then, too, there were priests who were unable to establish their genealogy (Ezra 2:61-63; Neh. 7:63-65), and other Israelites may well have faced the same problem. These may not have been listed in the family groupings but could have been included in the total. So the 42,360 persons could be the combined total of the number from each family plus many others who were unable to establish their ancestry. Later, however, some may have been able to establish their correct genealogy. This could explain how a fluctuation in numbers might still give the same total.
Often the context provides the key in resolving apparent numerical discrepancies...........
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Yes these examples arent necessarily connected to the 144k interpretation but it shows that the WTS can make numbers work if they really want them to. They set a precident.
Many have speculated the number 144k will be made symbolic - but making the 144k MORE than 144k could be a strategy the GB could pull over the eyes of the R&F. In fact, they wouldnt even have to come out and say it - just "imply" it, just drop little hints here & there. The org is famous for this tactic. This concept has my vote as the most practical way for the org to go regarding the 144k -
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Did you know JW's who worked in SALES?
by BonaFide inthe brothers and sisters that i knew that worked in sales did great in the congregation.
their presentations, their talks, their knowledge of all the publications, they were really on top of things.
those that worked in other fields sometimes really struggled at placing literature and in getting studies.. one brother in my hall used to have special sessions with those that wanted to improve their presentation.
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still_in74
i used to be in sales. It was almost an imediate slide into virtual inactivity as soon as I began. Sales consumed my every thought and i felt like I was selling watchtowers.
that was many years ago. Funny how i was right! (about "selling" WT's")
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Steven Hassan's Cult book...
by homeschool inok, so i'm over halfway through with this book on combatting cult mind control.
does the dude ever mention jw's (besides one page in the bibliography at the end)?
if not, would there be a way to get a jw to read the book, maybe pointing fingers at some other cult religion so you dont appear to be talking about the witnesses?
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still_in74
Oh, so anyway, she's supposed to come up with an answer for me on Friday night.
make sure you follow it with - "then why did they change if from generation=144k in the first place?"
She wont even know that WTS taught that before Knorr/Franz changed it.
You might even ask if it was coincidence that the "new light" of 1995 came to the WTS exactly 81 years after 1914 (remember "a mighty man lives 70 or 80 years"?)or within just 2 years of Franz dying? You ever notice that after a prez dies the main teaching they emphasized during their tenure always gets dumped???
Such an obvious tactic by the objective observer....
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Has the "Faithful and Discreet Slave" correctly foretold anything?
by donny inone of the issues that really helped me open my eyes to the fallacy of the claims of the "faithful and discreet slave" class is that they have not been right on anything they said would happen in the future.
every instance of "new light" is simply a hindsight adjustment and their attempt to allign the beliefs with what actually is happening or already occurred.
when you examine all of their dates, and what was supposed to happen on them, as well as the generation of 1914 and the date of the sealing of the annointed, etc, etc, can you think of anything the f&ds has accurately foretold by means of "jehovahs" spirit.. don.
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still_in74
"But in the second volume of Light the League of Nations was associated with this prophetic vision, exactly as Vine had done eleven years earlier. The "scarlet colored beast" (Rev. 17:3) was explained to be "The Hague International Peace Conference," formed in 1899. 14This organization "functioned until the World War. It then went into the abyss and ceased to function. After the World War it came out of the abyss or pit and began to function again in the form of the League of Nations." 15 This understanding was prevalent until 1942 (see for instance the book Enemies 1937, pp. 283ff.), when it dawned upon the Watch Tower leaders that World War II would not develop into Armageddon either. Another interpretation of Revelation 17, therefore, became necessary."
This is amazing! that is a great link too. Its nice to see some fresh material. At least this is fresh to me. Perhaps this deserves its own thread....