Posts by freeme

10

Yesterdays meeting and the prophecies about cyrus and the fall of babylon

by freeme in

yesterdays meeting had a conversation talk about cyrus and the prophecies in isaiah 45:.

(isaiah 45:1-3) 45 this is what jehovah has said to his anointed one, to cyrus, whose right hand i have taken hold of, to subdue before him nations, so that i may ungird even the hips of kings; to open before him the two-leaved doors, so that even the gates will not be shut:2 "before you i myself shall go, and the swells of land i shall straighten out.

the copper doors i shall break in pieces, and the iron bars i shall cut down.

freeme

Hi there!

yesterdays meeting had a conversation talk about cyrus and the prophecies in Isaiah 45:

(Isaiah 45:1-3) 45 This is what Jehovah has said to his anointed one, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have taken hold of, to subdue before him nations, so that I may ungird even the hips of kings; to open before him the two-leaved doors, so that even the gates will not be shut:2 "Before you I myself shall go, and the swells of land I shall straighten out. The copper doors I shall break in pieces, and the iron bars I shall cut down. 3 And I will give you the treasures in the darkness and the hidden treasures in the concealment places, in order that you may know that I am Jehovah, the One calling [you] by your name, the God of Israel.

the sisters pointed out that these prophecy was given by isaiah like 200 years before it happened.

societys publications say that the book isaiah was written "After 732 B.C.E.". The conquest of babylon was in 539 B.C.E...

see:

*** w76 10/1 p. 602 Cyrus, a Man with a Prophetic Role ***
Cyrus, a Man with a Prophetic RoleFEW men throughout the course of human history were foretold to fulfill a specific role in God’s purpose. Cyrus the son of Cambyses and the founder of the Persian Empire, however, was such a man. His conquest of Babylon in 539 B.C.E. and the subsequent release of the Jews from exile were foretold long before his birth.

in the conversation the proof was just saying "the prophecy was ~200 years before!!! even the name of the conquerer and how he conquered babylon was mentioned!" "oh, yes, thats wonderful, i need to become a witness now!!!".

for me there was no proof at all. just an old book which has a date-sticker on it and another old book with another sticker when i sit in the meeting. i found out that i never examined these dates. stickers alone arent reliable... are they?

so basically my question is: how can you determine

a) the time when the book isaiah was written
b) the time babylon fell

i decided to look it up. ive searched for both in the wikipedia.

In 539 BC the Neo-Babylonian Empire fell to Cyrus the Great, king of Persia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babylon#Babylon_under_Persia

Isaiah lived during the late eighth and early seventh centuries BC, which was a difficult period in the history of Jerusalem.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Isaiah

The wikipedia seems to back up the societies teachings...

its even backed by ms encarta... (only the german version is free of charge...):

Der Überlieferung nach erlitt er den Märtyrertod 701 oder 690 v. Chr.

translation: the lore says he died as martyr 701 or 690 BCE

539 v. Chr. wurde es von den Persern unter Kyros dem Großen erobert

translation: 539 BCE it was conquered by the persians under cyrus the great

So what do we have here? A true prophecy?

Wouldnt that make the bible something special? Wouldnt that rule out any atheist views?
Wouldnt we need to search for a god fearing lifestyle? What is the right way to live? Is it the JW style and if not what is it? Is there actually a religion who lives in a way god likes?

Love your comments. Whats is right and what is wrong with my line of thought?

do you have sources which are more reliable than the wikipedia and encarta (even though it actually is pretty reliable in many cases)?

What does it mean to you that its "the lore" what tells us about the life of isaiah. may it be completey false? do you have arguments for or against the bible story and the "lore"?

Thank You All!

freeme

47

Luke 16: 19-24

by vlad in

19but a certain man was rich, and he used to deck himself with purple and linen, enjoying himself from day to day with magnificence.20but a certain beggar named laz arus used to be put at his gate, full of ulcers21and desiring to be filled with the things dropping from the table of the rich man.

yes, too, the dogs would come and lick his ulcers.22now in course of time the beggar died and he was carried off by the angels to the bosom [position] of abraham.. also, the rich man died and was buried.23and in ha des he lifted up his eyes, he existing in torments, and he saw abraham afar off and laz arus in the bosom [position] with him.24so he called and said, father abraham, have mercy on me and send laz arus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because i am in anguish in this blazing fire.. my old account does not seem to be working, so i am not a new member but i did not post loads anyway.

i am an now an athiest myself but anytime i ask jws about a scripture they say its pointless discussing it with me becuase i am only doing it to tear them down.

freeme

Consider John 1:18, then go from there.
JOHN 1:18 18 No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is in the bosom [position] with the Father is the one that has explained him.
JCanon

there are scriptures which refer to an human actually seeing/talking/meeting god (i.e. john, moses, etc). we say in all those verses its actually an angel who acts as an middleman and that would explain the whole thing perfectly without contradictions (when you say the bible CANT have condradictions).

in jesus story there was virtually no need to describe how the communication between the rich man and god actually takes place. when you pray to god (at least as a jw) you basically think you're talking to god even though jesus is the mediator and you actually talking to jesus in first place with a message for god.

in this context your scripture basically means nothing or i did not get the point at all.

9

JW called me while working at a call center

by IsaacJS2 in

jw
friends

this was kinda weird, so i thought i would share.

my wife (still a dub) went out last sunday to start pimping the next convention.

according to her, this promotion is just getting underway.

freeme

Every time someone says crap like that to me I immediately explain why I disagree:
Crime in general is substantially down. We can live in houses and cities that are not protected from armies and raiding parties from neighboring cities. (Imagine if Fort Worth, TX tried to invade Dallas, TX) There is so much peace now that we don't have to worry about such things.
In the past only 1 in 5 births reached adulthood . Now infant mortality is almost unheard of.
In the past the average human life span was only about 45. We are now over 70 and approaching 80.
In the past a small cut on the finger would likely result in a severe infection and death. Now nearly every infectious disease can be controlled or cured with a simple antibiotic or antiviral drug.
There are very few dictators left in the world. Now people can elect (and remove from office) their political representatives.
... and the list goes on and on.
We are living in the best conditions humans have EVER seen. Those living in a developed country are even better off and are described as having won the "Birth Lottery" because of how good we have it.
Anyone who complains about "how bad things are" needs to be sent back 150 years so they can see just how hard life was.

i see it the same way. elsewhere.

but of course the conditions you describe applying only to the western world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_world

which doesnt make a big part of the world. but i agree even with this in mind we're living in the best conditions ever seen. of course individuals can still have a very hard life.

of course jws say its the worst ever. i think every cilization in mankinds history would agree to that too. humans are like this way. its constant:

- yesterday was better
- today is worse
- tomorrow will be planetopia or even more worse 50:50

22

how would a dub respond?

by bigdreaux in

as i stated in a previous post, i often think differently.

now, i don't know if this has been discussed before, but, with reguard to 1914. let's pretend this prophecy is true.

let's pretend that satan was hurled out of heaven in 1914, and came to earth.

freeme

i would have responded that humans cant understand the heavenly ways. we have to stay humble and trust in god for this.

checkmate

85

Active Elders who post on JWD

by Honesty in

does your conscience torment you knowing that you are misleading the flock of god as you continue teaching them the heresies of the watchtower society?.

why are you staying in the organization and posting here at the same time?.

do you really believe that you can help your families to reject the watchtower society while remaining an elder and visibly appearing to support their lies and false teachings?.

freeme

i can understand such elders...

the deeper you are in the more youre about to lose when you quit.

in one second you're an elder in wonderful standing and everyone smiles at you and loves you for the position youre having and the next second you are a hated by all the other elders and witnesses, losing all your privileges and friends, the respect of your wife and all that while battling your own guilt all day long. some ppl just do not have the strength to bear this.

no, im not such an elder or MS, but ive trouble to get out as a normal witness with all privileges already lost.

an elder lives in a world where he maybe a normal worker in the world but a glory figure in JWism... like batman. ;) leaving the truth means throwing that bat-cape away and everyone you know and love spits on you for that.

psychological pressure at its finest. i feel for them.

5

THE FUTURE OF CIVILIZATION

by fedorE in

jw
friends

dr. michio kaku and the future of civilization.

(nothing i say can even start to encourage respect for this man's intellect..just check this out ).

video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6318925812042869495&q.

freeme

exciting stuff. it blows the mind. i love that. its so sad that the lifespan of one human being is so short. einstein should be here seeing all this.

11

Aliens,other dimensions, just foolishness? Open ur mind!

by fedorE in

jw
friends

(dr. michio kaku, tells a short story of how fish, naturally moving forward or side to side, with no idea of up, ).

my own fascination with higher dimensions began early in childhood.

one of my happiest childhood memories was crouching next to the pond at the famed japanese tea garden in san francisco, mesmerized by the brilliantly colored carp swimming slowly beneath the water lilies.

freeme

In these quiet moments, I would ask myself a silly question that a only child might ask: how would the carp in that pond view the world around them? Spending their entire lives at the bottom of the pond, the carp would believe that their “universe” consisted of the water and the lilies; they would only be dimly aware that an alien world could exist just above the surface. My world was beyond their comprehension.

im asking myself such questions all the time since my early childhood. im 26. somethings wrong with me?

56

If Jehovah went to a psychiatrist, what would be his diagnoses?

by flipper in

jw
friends

we're talking about a "supreme being" who hates a lot, is violent and vindictive, fascist, any "love" is totally conditional, plays mean mind games (sacrifice your son for me)....he probably oughta be locked up!

mrs flipper

freeme

even though we shouldnt bann such threads on a open minded discussion forum...

threads like this one scares away every jw who lurks the first time. can you imagine what you would have thought when you were in, opened this webpage and the first thing you read is that jehovah needs to go to psychiatrist to being diagnosed a schizophrenic mental illness?!

i wouldve leaved ON THE SPOT and never come back.

just a thought.

43

PROOF that the GB lurk HERE ???

by AlphaOmega in

a while ago, i posted this thread.... http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/135699/1.ashx.

in which i said.... this is strange, i read that in 1995 they did away with the "generation" teaching, yet the official watchtower website still says this, over 12 years later !.

thus, all the features of the last days must take place within the lifetime of one generation, the generation of 1914. so some people who were alive in 1914 will still be alive when this system comes to its end.

freeme

even though i find it quiet possible that someone near the gb and from the wts lurking here (or even posting O_o?) i think its completely irrelevant and nothing to be proud of or whatever. we dont need to be important - its not the reason this board exists, am i wrong?

51

Could the WTBTS get JWs to kill?

by serotonin_wraith in

i'm not saying those in power would even contemplate doing this, but i wonder just how far jws would go to obey their leaders.

would they go as far as to kill, if they thought god had given that message to 'his people'?.

it would probably take years of subtle changes in their message so that it didn't come as a big shock.

freeme

im pretty sure they would. they've done it. either through the blood transfusion issue or through a deathlike strike through shunning.

if they would package it into a armageddon starting act... it may be possible. or something else. its difficult to imagine it now, but i think its possible. of course many many jw would leave but that would only the remaining strengthen their faith (its just a small number who get through the small door and stuff)...