As far as I'm aware, WT says it's ok to take the regular oath of citizenship with the mental reservation that if anything the USA requires is in violation of God's law you naturally wouldn't comply, just as any natural-born "true Christian" citizen wouldn't. There was a Questions from Readers on it in the early 1980's if I remember correctly. Maybe Blondie or one of the others who has access to WT literature would be able to find the item and post it for you.
Posts by AnneB
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6What turned me away from the WTBTS.... PART 1
by megawatt insigh.... wished i would've introduced myself proper in my first post here, but having the fear of being found out too quickly or not being the right time made me censored myself from revealing too much info.
recently though, i just felt the need to get this off my chest, despite the possible risk of being called out, which several jws in good standing are aware of my exact situation.
i registered at the new site (jw support something) since theres some buzz of this site is going off line, but hadn't received my confirmation email yet.
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JW's and Woodstock
by sammielee24 inhow many of you have gone out and bought our rented woodstock?
many people were unable to engage in the freedoms of the time - some because of religion, others because they may have been fighting a war or perhaps because they did not feel a part of the movement.
my older siblings were part of those hippie style movements so i remember them well - i'm going to pick up the disks for sammie to watch.
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AnneB
Somewhere in the WT literature there is a story that says Woodstock was almost "Wallkill". According to them, the festival organizers first looked for a spot in the area around WT property and when they couldn't find anything suitable they moved on to the place where the event was actually held.
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The Turing Test is on - 6 new contestants
by Octarine Prince inhttp://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2008/oct/05/artificialintelligenceai
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AnneB
Did you notice that the computer doesn't "give back" in it's "conversation" with the human? All it does is ask questions. The human to human conversation asks some questions and also gives back information.
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"It takes 10 years at Bethel to understand Holy Spirit"
by BonaFide inthose words have been spoken to me a bunch of times by bethelites.
some of you on here try to reason with jw's by showing us how our reasoning is wrong, i do the same thing.
what i forget is that whenever i used to hear a teaching or a decision that didn't make sense, it then became "holy spirit" working.
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AnneB
until you are the one that is burned....then you start to think.....
May these litigious Bethelites fully cooperate with the outworking of Holy Spirit as it stirs the minds and bank accounts of the GB and recalls to their hearts the decision of the superior authorities that slavery in the United States ended a looooooong time ago.
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Original Sin
by cameo-d init seems to be generally assumed that the "original sin" was the act of disobedience.
so what's so bad about wanting to raise your intellect?
did our creators intend for us to just be like the dumb beasts?
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AnneB
THAT was the original sin- covetousness.
Brother Apostate: My take on cameo-d's question was that it referred to the "original sin" of Adam (and possibly Eve, if it was the same "original sin").
As far as covetousness being the *original* "original sin", while it may have preceeded Adamic sin, how can one be certain that it was the absolute original sin? Perhaps it is only the first sin that we, as humans, have heard about!
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Any thoughts on the 'Brethren'?
by Slappy inas my bio mentions, i grew up in a non-denominational setting and am very thankful for that.
however, there are still a few things that are held within this setting to be truth (will of god, biblical, or whatever else you care to call it) that i find very disconcerting.
i've tried, on various occassions, to discuss this with others within the 'brethren' but they are leery of such topics and tend to view me as cynical and jaded and a danger to the proper order of things .
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AnneB
A lot of my family were Brethren from the start of the movement, so I thought I'd look into what they believed. At first I was happy; I thought I'd found something good, but then I saw that they were just as man-made as the Watchtower so I lost interest entirely.
Why do you want to examine their beliefs when you already see that their basic premise is contradictory?
A.
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Abandoning Older Kids
by sammielee24 ini've read a lot of history on the home children, great depression..train kids...and so on and as i've heard politician after politician talk about a possible new depression era, i wonder if this is the beginning of another surge of abandonment.
there are already kids living in tent cities and cars and vans so i wonder if as the laws for the age of abandonment are increased, if we will see a surge in the coming years...sammieswife.. us shocked by spate of abandoned children 14 given up by parents under new nebraska law.
state to reconsider age limit of 19 after criticismed pilkington in new york the guardian, saturday october 4 2008 article historypress conference following eleven children having been left at hospitals in nebraska, sept 24 2008. photograph: nati harnik.
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AnneB
I don't think so. Abandonment just hasn't been in the news as regularly as some other issues.
I remember that in the 1980's it went by some popular term (which I have forgotten) when parents were moving away and literally leaving their teens behind. It happened a lot in California; I knew of several who were living in a city park in the very "good" neighborhood where their homes used to be.
My own mother did it twice, first to my sister and then to my brother. (Yes, I took them in each time.)
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Original Sin
by cameo-d init seems to be generally assumed that the "original sin" was the act of disobedience.
so what's so bad about wanting to raise your intellect?
did our creators intend for us to just be like the dumb beasts?
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AnneB
It seems to be generally assumed that the "original sin" was the act of disobedience. But was it really?
It was knowledge that was offered.
Actually, it was Adam listening to Eve instead of to God:
Genesis 3: 17 And to Adam he said: “Because you listened to your wife’s voice and took to eating from the tree concerning which I gave you this command, ‘You must not eat from it,’ ...".
Notice Genesis 2:9 regarding what trees were in the garden "Thus Jehovah God made to grow out of the ground every tree desirable to one’s sight and good for food and also the tree of life in the middle of the garden and the tree of the knowledge of good and bad."
There was no prohibition against eating from "the tree of life", only from the tree of the knowledge of good and bad: Genesis 2: 16 "And Jehovah God also laid this command upon the man: “From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction. 17 But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it...".
It was only after Adam showed disloyalty to his Provider that God turned him out of the garden and away from the tree of life: Genesis 2:22 "And Jehovah God went on to say: “Here the man has become like one of us in knowing good and bad, and now in order that he may not put his hand out and actually take [fruit] also from the tree of life and eat and live to time indefinite,—” 23 With that Jehovah God put him out of the garden of E´den to cultivate the ground from which he had been taken. 24 And so he drove the man out and posted at the east of the garden of E´den the cherubs and the flaming blade of a sword that was turning itself continually to guard the way to the tree of life."
The original sin was disloyalty...by *man* (not "mankind" which would include women).
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ALERT FRON BETHEL (this may be it)
by Hiddenwindow ina prominent bethel elder shared this information with another elder: there are some bethel workers who have been invited to leave bethel, but are refusing to do so and are taking the society to court while still residing in brooklyn.
if this is true, this could be the reason behind the sale of brooklyn property.
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AnneB
There are some Bethel workers who have been invited to leave Bethel, but are refusing to do so
My understanding is that persons who are "invited to leave" then fill out a "voluntary separation" application which the Society then graciously accepts, thus freeing themselves of any further obligation to the departees.
I've wondered if any of the Bethelites would see through this and be savvy enough to take action.
Of course, all WT would have to do to be rid of them is find some reason to DF them so that they couldn't stay, according to the terms of their volunteerism. "Bringing reproach upon Jehovah" is a useful catchall and legal action against the Society has been considered "bringing reproach" in the past.
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Why do you think that some are more "controlled" by the WBTS than others?
by easyreader1970 ini used to think that maybe it was just the people who were raised in the truth, especially from infancy.
they didn't know what life outside of the organization was so it was all they had to cling to.
but that's obviously wrong because many, many have left--happily--never to return.
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AnneB
Are these people just weak minded? Do they lack inherent ability to make their own decisions and depend on others to rule them (sheep)? Is there some other psychological issue there that makes them more likely for total commitment than others?
I suspect that prior abuse has something to do with it. Some are born into a culture of abuse and don't even realize that another way of life is possible.
If a person is taught by life experience that some human higher than themselves is always right, that to voice different thoughts is sure to be punished, that to act on one's own initiative means emotional and physical torture, then yes, such people will be much more easily controlled by WT policies if they should become JW's.
They're not weak-minded, not at all, nor do they lack inate abilities. They just haven't come up (yet) with a way to escape their current situation. It takes time and exposure to another life course before an abused person can make a successful transition to a more fulfilling way of life.
Never give up hope.