Posts by Gopher

15

1914: A lucky guess? Or divine inspiration?

by Gopher in

we know the wt society has a long history of prophecies, especially regarding dates.

almost 100% of such prophecy was in error.. it seems though, that they got a date right by foretelling that 1914 would be "the end of the world as we know it".

yes, they changed the meaning of 1914 several times.

Gopher

Hi all,

We know the WT Society has a long history of prophecies, especially regarding dates. Almost 100% of such prophecy was in error.

It seems though, that they got a DATE right by foretelling that 1914 would be "the end of the world as we know it".

Yes, they changed the meaning of 1914 several times. It did not mean the rapture of all the faithful Christians to heaven, and it was not the start of Armageddon. It wasn't anything close to what CT Russell had foretold. The final definition that "it was the establishment of God's heavenly kingdom" didn't even get published by JF Rutherford until 1925.

SO... Did the outbreak of modern warfare and World War I in 1914 signify a lucky guess, or some sort of inspiration?

What would you say to someone who thinks the JW's have a point here regarding 1914????

GopherWhy shouldn't truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense.
Mark Twain (1835-1910)

30

Shots fired at Jehovah's Witnesses hall

by Kent in

jw
friends

west st. paul: shots fired at jehovah's witnesses hall .

west st. paul police are looking for suspects who shot three holes into windows at a jehovah's witnesses hall last week.

people in the building heard shots about 8:30 p.m. wednesday and saw a midsize newer car with a rounded body speed away, west st. paul police chief terry cook said.

Gopher

This hall (that was shot at) contains 2 English and 1 Spanish-speaking congregation. It is in a residential neighborhood -- a bunch of houses in a row, then voila! a Kingdom Hall on the corner. It's in a very middle-income area of the West Side of St. Paul.

Back in the 1970's, there was a similar incident at the North Minneapolis Kingdom Hall, located in an older (low-to-middle income) neighborhood. The windows were shot out. They DID replace their windows with boards. It looked quite ugly, but it stayed that way until the hall had its fire in 1996 and they moved out to the suburbs.

GopherWhy shouldn't truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense.
Mark Twain (1835-1910)

13

There's no gossip like a JW

by target in

i recently admitted to a jw back in wisconsin that we no longer go to meetings.

i told her that we have not disassociated but we do not think of ourselves as jws anymore.

i had been close friends with this person since 1974. .

Gopher

Target,

Sounds like "you're the statue" this time. Your experience rings true.

Gossip is listed as sinful in WT publications, but is never punished. It is a means of putting others down and building up your power base. It seems to be a common practice among elders and their wives. Also among pioneers (so much time to pass out in the boring field ministry, gotta spice it up with some gossip).

Yeah the elders will come after you for more interesting sins, but gossip or slander -- doesn't seem to be worth the trouble. Maybe it's too hard to track down? Or maybe they don't want to prosecute it since it (gossip and put-downs) is a tool they themselves use?

Yes, it's rough-and-tumble inside the organization. Everyone eventually gets to be the 'target' of gossip. Even more so when you leave. You get the privilege of being the subject of all kinds of idle speculation! Can you feel the love??

GopherWhy shouldn't truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense.
Mark Twain (1835-1910)

16

Classic Paragraphs in the Watchtower Study Ha Ha

by Celtic in

jw
friends

ummmmmmmm it really does make you worry for the sanity of these people.. the watchtower january 15, 2000 you can know the future!

(divination?).

p18 para 17, the question is: how did certain brothers in el salvodor use ingenuity to preach to a man who at first did not want to hear the kingdom message?.

Gopher

So the WT Society is so giddy that malcontents and weirdos like this vicious-dog owner join their ranks?? This is what they've been reduced to.

Their message doesn't have the same appeal to well-adjusted people out there.

GopherWhy shouldn't truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense.
Mark Twain (1835-1910)

13

Florida town casts out Satan

by fodeja in

jw
friends

so that's florida for you then.. .

inglis mayor carolyn risher said september 11 terror attacks inspired her to compose a proclamation banning satan from her town.

inglis, florida (cnn) -- if he's thinking of visiting florida's west coast, satan might want to steer clear of inglis.. the mayor of this small fishing village in florida has declared the prince of darkness persona non grata -- in essence, telling him to go to the devil.. "satan, ruler of darkness, giver of evil, destroyer of what is good and just, is not now, nor ever again will be, a part of this town of inglis," mayor carolyn risher says in a proclamation, which was issued on official town stationery.. risher said the events of september 11 inspired her to pursue the proclamation, which the town commission supports.. "it gave me the inspiration that these people need to be ready if something like this was to happen to the town of inglis.

Gopher

Reporter: Satan, now that you've been cast out of Inglis, Florida, where will you go next!!

Satan (with a jubilant look): I'm going to DISNEY WORLD!!

GopherWhy shouldn't truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense.
Mark Twain (1835-1910)

17

How Many JWs Fully Buy Into the WT Party Line?

by Room 215 in

jw
friends

for those of us with years of acquaintance with the wt and its teachings, it's clear that full acceptance of the 1914 date as the establishment of god's kingdom in the heavens is a non-negotiable condition of remaining in good standing in the organization.

many of us know people who've been booted out just for expressing misgivings, lety alone outright denying this teaching.

almost as central, and as non-negotiable, is the teaching that only baptised jws can expect to survive the big a.. .

Gopher

Openminded,

So you're awaiting God's vultures, are you?? heheh.... Don't you know that your innards are going to be strewn from there all the way to Eau Claire, Wisconsin and damn soon, if you don't get your arse back in the organization????

Man, it must be a daily test, going through what you are. Hang in there, man.

GopherWhy shouldn't truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense.
Mark Twain (1835-1910)

2

Scandals - a Blessing To All

by metatron in

jw
friends

no doubt many 'loyal' witnesses view publicity about molestation.

and the u.n. with horror.. in reality,such scandals may become a blessing to all.. a widespread exposure of the watchtower society could bring about.

many good changes.

Gopher

Metatron,

One can only hope! My gut feeling is that the "many loyal" JW's will try to minimize the molestation scandal, and that they have already learned to ignore (or never heard of) the U.N. scandal.

The WT leadership is counting on the undying loyalty of their loyal core so that any changes may be minimal. But who knows? Maybe this will force some mainstreaming, much to the benefit of their current membership. Time will tell.

I'll just stay outside and watch! It feels warmer out here.

GopherWhy shouldn't truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense.
Mark Twain (1835-1910)

17

How Many JWs Fully Buy Into the WT Party Line?

by Room 215 in

jw
friends

for those of us with years of acquaintance with the wt and its teachings, it's clear that full acceptance of the 1914 date as the establishment of god's kingdom in the heavens is a non-negotiable condition of remaining in good standing in the organization.

many of us know people who've been booted out just for expressing misgivings, lety alone outright denying this teaching.

almost as central, and as non-negotiable, is the teaching that only baptised jws can expect to survive the big a.. .

Gopher

215,

This is clearly an example of cognitive dissonance -- outwardly believing one thing while inwardly believing another. The inward beliefs are coming out almost by accident, when such things are said as

"dates aren't really the central issue, worshipping Jehovah is," or ``we should avoid judgiung people and leave that to God. We shouldn't be like Jonah and get angry if God is more merciful than we currently give Him credit.''

I remember an elder saying that it is okay to have your own private thoughts on matters, but that if they conflict with the organization's view, it would be best to keep them to oneself. So submerge those thoughts!

And so it goes.

GopherWhy shouldn't truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense.
Mark Twain (1835-1910)

5

If J R Brown became the next WT Dictator!

by D wiltshire in

jw
friends

if j r brown became the next wt dictator, say in the similar manner as the j f rutherford did.. that is by careful legal maneuvers and key placement of men that will support you.. how would the wt rewrite their history making it look like the struggle jr brown had to get there had jehovahs backing.. any who would oppose him would be painted in the wt as wicked, deceitful men and kicked out side of jehovahs organization.. its funny to read the wt slanted take on history that makes them always come out on top as the good guys and any who dont go along with the organization as the wicked ones agents.. any what caused me to think of this were the similarities in the names and professions of jfr and jrb.. .

if someone lived a trillion x longer than you, and had a billion x more reasoning ability would he come to the same conclusions as you?.

Gopher

D Wiltshire,

This is the first I had heard of JR Brown being thought of as an heir to the WT throne. Perhaps I am out of the loop, or is this mere speculation?

It would be interesting, if it were true.

However, for Judge Rutherford to pull off his coup, the former president-for-life (Russell) had to buy the farm.

So which of the 3 new WT Corporations would JR Brown need to conquer to become the "next WT dictator"? Is such a thing even possible, now that the power is spread thin between these corporations?

Is JR Brown shooting for Don Adams' perch atop the publishing corp.?

Inquiring minds want to know.

GopherWhy shouldn't truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense.
Mark Twain (1835-1910)

23

Your favorite pic from the Kingdom pubs.

by LDH in

jw
friends

this one is for jt, who is interested in body modification (lol).

i will be the first to admit a rabid fascination with a certain picture....... back when i was about 7, i stumbled across the most fascinating picture in all of dubdom....... are you holding your breath?!?!?.

it was in the evolution or creation book....the picture of the black, african tribal woman with that huge freakin plate in her lip!.

Gopher

I liked the one, I think it may have been from the Live Forever book, that showed a couple looking happy and harmonious at their religious service, but screaming at each other when they came home. Typical JW marriage! (Or am I exaggerating?? C'mon-- not really!)

GopherWhy shouldn't truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense.
Mark Twain (1835-1910)