i quit jw not too long ago.
and i have a question.
what are you're xperiences with getting in the 'normal' live with doing birthday's etc?
I never celebrated my Birthday and I am not all of a sudden celebrating it now just because everybody does. If you want to fine, but don't do anything because it is supposed to be 'normal'. If you really want to it's easy: just gather some friends, family and arch-enemies, get some beer, toast etc put some music on and roll!
Welcome to the board! If you want to know more feel free to PM me or some other dutchies around here. We are a rare breed afterall.
Greven
i got an email the other day from an long time jw, in fact he was 13 at the 1958 convention in ny and polo grounds .
we were talking about the org and he posed the question to me as well- i thought about it and i could not think of anything-.
i have never heard -other than the name adoption resolution- any mention of any resolutions that we as jw adopted like in 1979, 1983 , etc.
Its no wonder they are all passed without dissent. FEAR prevents dubs from voting otherwise.
Farkel (and others), I witnessed dissent only once in my 20 years in the borg. A relatively fresh guy, a MS no less, dared to vote against! What happened was this:
The resolution was about granting the visiting DO a very large sum for expenses.
Speaker: who votes for?
*several (but not all!) raise their hands*
Speaker: now who votes against?
*One brother raises hand somewhat reluctantly, after which you could hear loud mumbling, and faces all turning in one direction*
Speaker: OK, everybody is... oh wait! Brother New there right in the back is against! Boy...Uh...OK. Well Brother New, we would like to discuss your opinion after the meeting in the second room OK. Ummm...Since the majority votes for the resolution is adopted for now.
*loud mumbling again*
This Brother was named and pointed out in public and severely reprimanded later on for disagreeing with the resolution, it was pointed out that in his position he should be giving a 'good' example. The brother in question was a friend of my family at the time so we discussed what happened afterwards. He was very disappointed, he was asked his opinion and he gave it. He did not see how that was setting bad example. He left shortly afterwards.
Greven
i've heard this time and again from my j.w.
sister-in-law and daughter.
yet, when i found this hymn book, "sing praises to jehovah", i was shocked to find war songs in it, such as ... "gaining victory over the world", page 3.. "god's warriors are advancing", page 39.. "proclaiming jehovah's day of vengeance", page 189.. "see jehovah's army"!
"Those who beat their swords to plowshares, will plow for those who don't''
I consider that as being a subtle threat, coming from the one who said it or any who subscribe to it.
Well, no, that's not what I meant. It's basically a description/explanation of why disarming is such a difficult problem: it only works if everybody does it and at the same time and rate. If only one county disarms but another does not, the undefended country becomes an easy target and at the mercy of armed countries... It's not meant as a threat as I see it. Hope this clarification helped...
Greven
i've heard this time and again from my j.w.
sister-in-law and daughter.
yet, when i found this hymn book, "sing praises to jehovah", i was shocked to find war songs in it, such as ... "gaining victory over the world", page 3.. "god's warriors are advancing", page 39.. "proclaiming jehovah's day of vengeance", page 189.. "see jehovah's army"!
Undercover I agree whole heartly when you say:
Pacifism is great if everyone adheres to it. But unfortunately, being a pacifist is a good way to being conquered, enslaved or killed because there is always an agressor out there.
There is a saying, and I'm not sure where I got it from, but I find it chillingly accurate:
"Those who beat their swords to plowshares, will plow for those who don't''
Greven
years ago, when i was just a little lad, my dad would often quote the above passage from the scriptures to me.. "was i not having fun?".
usually, i would be about to be reprimanded for having been a little too cheeky.
i would fall back on an "i was only kidding!
The biblical kidder would wind up with more than a sore ass: saying baldy to a prophet could get you mauled for instance....LOL
Greven
whats the best evidence youve found to make someone fall out of the truth?
its kind of a hard decision for me to drop out right now because i was raised in it.
plus i have some friends at my congregation that i grew up with.
whats the best evidence youve found to make someone fall out of the truth?
Evidence alone will do little good. What is needed foremost is a willingness to consider other views and hence, the possiblilty of being wrong yourself. Here lies the crux with many witnesses. Unwilling even to admit they might be wrong, they go mentally shut as soon as they suspect anyone trying to convince them thereof. Therefore I recommend inducing them to think by asking questions. Throw some dilemma's at them, socrates-style. Hopefully they will open up and become more critical, then and only then, will presenting evidence have any hope of succeeding to convince.
They say to beware of apostates, but i like to get everyones view on life so i looked at some apostate material.
You seem at least to be openminded. Good. That's a start. What made you wake up and smell the coffee? Maybe it'll work on your folks too!
Greven
note: i was lazy and did not spell check this because it's getting late and i'm tired......
gawd... i forgot just how mind numbing those things are.
you all owe me!!!
Thanx for all the trouble you went trough to provide us with this wealt of material. You are a true martyr. Nice use of the bible against the "one- true-religion: us'' theme they keep harping on.
Greven
it's called the intelligent stick.... i'm sure that most of you have seen those little usb "stick" drives... they are small and plug into the usb port and allow you to store anywhere from 16mb to 1gb.
i've never bought one because i did not like the idea of carrying around a stick with me everywhere i went.
then i saw the intelligent stick.
I am going to buy one that is disguised as a working ballpoint.
It's slick and thin, and bigger than yours, hah!
Greven
.
it mentiones that a species must have a "first mother and a "first father" etc etc.
is this rubbish?
To me, the existence of fairies could just be basic & simple, an essential fact to this life. Why not? Why keep fighting against it? For me at least, even as a child I believed in fairies and it didn't go much further than that. Not in to a Fairy Church hall, not even into many conversations. My belief was always very private and manifested itself by the magic I felt coursing through the earth. The energies that form this life spoke to me and firmed my belief. All at a deep intuitive level, nothing had to be measured or tested, I just knew.
I reproduced and slighly altered (replaced 'creation' and 'God' with Fairies) the above statement to show that with such a reason stated for beliefs anything goes. The scientific method of investigation is designed to prevent us from believing things just because we want to. Without a good method of comparison your belief is as good as mine. As I said: anything goes. The problem with such a myriad of differing beliefs is that one cannot distinguise between them. If one truely wants to understand the universe and its phenomenons, it is absolutely necessary to be able to distinguise between fact and feasable explanation on the one hand and utter balony or whishful thinking on the other.
Greven
without a doubt the most time-worn excuse of jw's when it comes to errors, omissions and failures of the jw parent organization goes something like this:i only ask that things be put in perspective and to also realize that the writers of the society are not inspired.. .
the statement above is certainly true.
the writers for the society certainly are not inspired.
A classic image! This one is hard to deny and gives a great picture of how they think. Show this to any outsider and they will tell you exactly how a witness views his reading material and the ones providing it... I saved this gem for my files! Thanx!
Greven
