This was too funny:
"I sang KH songs for 20 years. I guess now I'm ready to conduct the NY Philharmonic..."
-----------------
As for that severe case of braggadocio of the WT's claim re: their linguistics program, simply amazing. I liked whoever's idea to send a copy of the WT's claims to Cambridge and Oxford and let them have a read. lol. Maybe they would refute publicly to the WT's embarrassment.
---------------
And lastly, when I first saw Neuro- Linguistics at the top of the thread, my immediate tin-foil-hat thought was re: the NLP as well, and that the WT was delving deeper into sneaky pete brainwashing tactics, as a few others were thinking as well. Tony Robbins, Personal Power book, early 1990s was the first I had ever heard of NLP. No thanks, I'll keep my bad habits... and my pocketbook.
abbagail
JoinedPosts by abbagail
-
39
Governing Body's new neuroscience program better than Cambridge University
by Dogpatch ini don't know what to make of this.
i assume this is a real lecture given in cyprus, apparently recently (original jw email dated dec. 1st).
anyone know this guy?
-
-
abbagail
-
35
What convinced you?
by heybaby inas far as doctrine goes, what finally convinced you that this isn't the truth?
-
-
abbagail
The "Wolves in Sheep's Clothing" ad with the little girl's shoe that was at the top of these webpages in late 2001... It took me a LONG time to get the nerve to click on it... when I finally did, that was all it took...
All the doctrinal stuff I learned later. It was the pedos that cracked open the mental blinders so all the other info could come flooding in. -
23
personal profiles here..and on jwn in the future...
by oompa ini wish they were mandatory...but know that is stupid since guys could be girls...and girls could be guys...and you could be born in 1967 or 1997.....but cmon!...give a little bit of info...just be a bit honest...i just wish everyone would post an honest profile that would not incriminate themselves as a jw....if at all possible...anybody else feel like this?.............oompa
-
-
abbagail
It would be nice if we could tell who is male/female... because some of the names you can't tell, so I still don't know re: some folks I communicate with.
As for profiles, I never even think about them... it never dawns on me to click on people's profiles. I do look for the male/female symbol if it's available, and or sometimes curious what state people are in if they are describing something going on in their area. Other than that, I don't really need more info.
...except, I sure would love it if Oompa, you'd give yourself a handsome photo instead of that... who is that anyway? ;-) Somebody from The Munsters? -
-
-
abbagail
Great idea. I don't ever recall a high school photo thread... Unfortunately I don't have any photos w/me but may work it out before JWD closes down, lol.
Has anyone ever used their yahoogroup photos section to post photos, and then from there to here? I sure would like to not have to open one of those webshot accounts in order to post a photo.
BTW, that first fella at the beginning, didn't catch the name... but cute as pie. Looks Very PREPPY! ;-) Knows how to pose, too! -
328
Jesus Is Jehovah/Jehovah Is Jesus
by snowbird inhttp://www.str.org/site/news2?page=newsarticle&id=5725.
i fought against this with all my wts-trained power, but truth prevailed.. any way you cut it, it comes out the same.. peace and strength in your search.. sylvia.
-
-
abbagail
"Jehovah and Jesus are very confused.. That`s why the WBT$ is in charge!!......................OUTLAW"
You made me laugh with that one, Outlaw! Ha!
Even so, you know I don't agree the WT is "in charge" of knowing much of anything, lol. Nor do I believe JESUS/JESUS is corn-fused! ;-)
-----------------------
I agree with Sylvia, Jesus is the same PERSON as YHWH in the OT.
Prior thread of this subject from early 2007 where a long discussion took place, and I put in my 2-short-cents:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/124384/11.ashx -- if anybody wants to take a look.
----------------
God the Father and God the Holy Spirit remain UN-NAMED throughout scripture.
God the Father and God the Holy Spirit have also ALWAYS remained in the INVISIBLE realm.
It is ONLY GOD THE SON who STEPPED FORWARD out of the INVISIBLE realm to the VISIBLE realm in order to deal with mankind (Coloss 1:15: "He is the image of the INVISIBLE God...").
He/Jesus/YHWH is also THE COMMUNICATOR with mankind FROM THE BEGINNING ( = "THE WORD"!!! ;-) I LOVE this stuff! "IN THE BEGINNING was THE WORD, and The WORD was with God, and the Word WAS GOD" - John 1:1).
HE is the GOD of the BIBLE, THE WORD, the One who...
walked w/Adam & Eve in the Garden,
who spoke to Abraham,
who spoke to Hagar,
who appeared to Moses in the burning bush,
who stood before Joshua as Captain of the Host, etc. etc.
It was always GOD THE SON who stepped forward from the INVISIBLE to the VISIBLE realm to deal with and save Mankind, who became flesh and dwelt among us. It always was JESUS (JEHOVAH) the WHOLE TIME. Praise the Lord!
--------------------
It was HE who authored the prophecies CONCERNING HIMSELF throughout all of Scripture. As I said, HE IS "THE WORD."
And He/Jesus/YHWH is also the ONLY ONE of the Godhead who ever has His PERSONAL NAMES REVEALED, YHWH/OT, Jesus/NT.
What His name means is that He would "BECOME" MORE-and-MORE **REVEALED** to Mankind throughout the ages... from THE BEGINNING and all the way to the End of the Age as proclaimed in the last book in the Bible, "THE ***REVELATION*** of JESUS CHRIST".
So God has been CONTINUALLY REVEALING Himself through the ages, and in the end He will be COMPLETELY/TOTALLY ***REVEALED*** to Mankind.
----------------------------
And this is MY FAVORITE... it is JESUS (=JEHOVAH/YHWH = LORD) whose VERY FEET will STAND on the Mount of Olives in the "DAY OF THE LORD"... (we'll use the NWT since this is a JW forum...)
(NWT) -- Zechariah 14:1,3,4 -- “Look! There is a DAY COMING, BELONGING TO JEHOVAH... And JEHOVAH will certainly go forth and war against those nations as in the day of his warring, in the day of fight. AND HIS FEET WILL ACTUALLY STAND IN THAT DAY UPON THE MOUNTAIN OF THE OLIVE TREES, which is in front of Jerusalem, on the east...
-----------
In another thread sometime in early 2007, Mouthy had said she believed the same, that Jesus is "Jehovah" and that she had a graphic with LOTS of scriptures about it. Her friend emailed me a copy and I still have it, but it is a circular graphic/chart and I can't post photos. ;-/
------------------------------
FWIW, I only "got" the Trinity in early 2005 and that came before I understood the above. After struggling with the Trinity for a few years I finally thought, for pete's sake, quit struggling and feeling guilty for Not "getting it" like everyone else seems to be able to. Just PRAY and ASK the Lord to SHOW YOU if it is TRUE or NOT! (Duh! So dense sometimes!) Within a few days to a week I was reading a Statement of Faith at a Messianic Jewish congregation website (I used to love to read Stmts of Faith! Collected lots of them. It was fun!)
The one at that site was VERY DETAILED, tons of scriptures, it was fantastic. Especially their entire section re: the Persons of the Trinity or Godhead as is often said. The Holy Spirit section was great, too, but when I came upon their explanation of the Shema in Deut. 6:4, it was SO SIMPLE, but was like HELLO! BINGO! Ding Ding Ding! I GOT IT! To put it briefly, they explained how the Hebrew word for ONE in the Shema was ECHAD which means COMPOSITE!!! So... "The LORD our God is ONE COMPOSITE GOD!" And that was all she wrote! It made PERFECT SENSE. -- (It was long in coming because even when I was a kid in Catholic School, when the nun drew a triangle on the blackboard saying, God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit, I remember thinking even then, "THAT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.")
NOT "THREE GODS", as the WT tries to say, with those pics of pagan gods with three heads, etc.
But ONE GOD in THREE PERSONS!
------------------------------------
I always picture them like this:
Get a visual of a giant umbrella that is fully opened.
Write in big giant letters across the front of the umbrella: G-O-D.
Now look who is standing underneath the "Umbrella":
The Father << Remains Unnamed and Invisible to Mankind
The Son >> Stepped out of the INVISIBLE to the VISIBLE in order to COMMUNICATE with and SAVE Mankind and to REVEAL Himself and His Names
The Holy Spirit << Remains Unnamed and Invisible to Mankind
I don't have to "fight it" or struggle against it. I accept it, believe it, and it is FULLY SATISFYING to my mind and heart.
The Lord may reveal it to others in a different way, as He deals with each of us Individually, so whatever would work for you PERSONALLY. Ask Him for the "PERSONAL TOUCH." He's GREAT at that! -
218
The Duality -- The Father and The Son
by UnDisfellowshipped indo jehovah's witnesses believe in two gods or one god?
do they believe in a "duality"?
do jehovah's witnesses and/or the angels worship jesus christ?.
-
-
abbagail
Ha! Wow, Undf!!! I found this thread again today 12/18/08 in a google search because the subject of "Jesus is Jehovah" is being discussed in another current thread... a whole whopping one year and nine months after this thread!
I never saw your reply to my above post until now! Thank you! So sweet!!! You may never see this reply either, but I wanted to say Thank you for all the kindness over the years. You know how I always admired your amazing endurance and stamina (posts wise) and your ability to post your threads full of scriptural explanations and support. You always reminded me of how I was when I was younger, lol.
I'm glad the hectic days for you have passed and you are settled down and things are better for you. And FWIW, just a few days ago cameo-d started a thread for everyone to "memorialize" their favorite "144,000 of JWD" (LOL) as a remembrance before this forum becomes "frozen in time" and the new JWN opens up, and I had "nominated" you for the reasons described above, and also because of that one little email you sent me in 2002 with your list of your favorite NWO news sites! I wouldn't have the understanding (ability to "fill in the gaps") of end times events that I have now if it hadn't been for you pointing me in the right direction, news-wise! I have always been so thankful for that! I spent almost five full years non-stop getting an education about all of that and posted close to 6,000 articles (with another thousand or two I never finished reading) to my small yahoogroup. I have a graphic/picture there which I "assembled together" recently and I think you might like it: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/THE_PARADISE_REPORTER/ (There's a full size copy in the PHOTOS section of the group, but that takes registration to access, but hey if you really like it, I can zap you a copy via email! I do love it, if I do say so myself! ;-) The group is "off for the winter" -- had to take a break on the news to catch up with other stuff.
While searching for something else here, I ran across an even OLDER reply of yours to me from SIX YEARS AGO, lol. I repied to that one, too: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/43425/3134191/post.ashx#3134191
So.... since your above post in this thread is almost two years old now, so what is "New" in late 2008? Things still going good? I hope so!
Take care brother!
/ag -
18
Born Again - what do they believe ?
by twinkletoes inwe have neighbours who have been very sincere "born again" christians, for about ten years.
i know that quite a number of you on this forum are also born again, but my question is, just what do you believe?, i understand that you don't have any particular denomination and appear to join any church service as you wish.
when i used to go out on "field service", i seemed to get different understandings of the scriptures, from born again christians, some seemed to be of the opinion that they would be taken up into heaven and armageddon would wipe the earth clean and then they would be put back on the earth, others seemed to think that they would go to heaven and stay there ?
-
-
abbagail
12/18/08
Oh my goodness, Undf!!! Ha! I can't believe it is EIGHT YEARS to the month since you replied to my above post, and I NEVER saw it until now! So sorry I missed it years ago, and Thank you!!
I was in the middle of replying to a 2007 thread where you replied to me, and I wondered if you believed in the rapture, so I did another google for that, and came upon this thread, lol.
I am so glad to see you believe in the rapture, and pre-trib at that! And I can't believe how in Dec. 2002 - about one year after I began lurking here -- how "in the dark" I still was (per the above post). Wow. Things changed fast in the ensuing years as far as scriptural wisdom and understanding went. All of the questions I asked you above, I learned for myself over the next few years after that, and it was so EXCITING! One "blast of light" after another. ;-) In this order...
2003 - The "Lie" of Replacement Theology + The Feasts of the Lord, etc. -- How the Lord fulfilled the first four already and will fulfill the last three when He returns... God's timing, God's calendar, God's seasons, etc. It was so exciting. And to understand "literal" vs. "allegorical" interpretation of scripture and prophecy. It was so easy to see things correctly/clearly by simply "removing" the lie of Replacement Theology. So the earthly Kingdom for Israel, the 1,000 year reign, the 144,000 Jewish virgin male witnesses, the Two Witnesses, the Woman in Rev. 12 (Israel), etc. etc. vs. the Heavenly Hope, the Body of Christ, the rapture, etc.
2003 - MIRACLE, FREEDOM , Fall 2003, I was freed from bondage to a miserable 14-years-long relationship w/prior b/f! in a "miraculous" way (anytime I get to hear the audible voice of the Lord is a miracle to me! It had only happened ONCE in my life previously, 24 years previously, as a matter of fact). Now I was FREE and my conscience was clear AT LAST and I took off like a rocket! ;-) And at 50-51 years old at that. It's never too late to 'start over'!
2004 - PRE-TRIB RAPTURE... I "held off" making it "my own" as I didn't want to learn later it wasn't so, so I "held off" a year or so on purpose, but by Fall of 2004 I was totally convinced and absolutely grabbed hold of it full-force and haven't let go since and never will 'til the Lord comes for his saints! ;-D
2005, early in the year - THE TRINITY -- I got sick of not "understanding" it -- old leftover WT hang-ups, so one day I thought, Just ask the Lord to SHOW ME! And within a few days or at the most a week, I was blessed with a scriptural answer that TOTALLY made sense to ME, MY BRAIN --the answer was just for ME, PERFECT for ME -- and I knew w/o a doubt it was the answer to my prayer. I totally "got" the Trinity! It was fantastic! (From a Messianic Jewish site I had read re: Deut. 6:4 -- Famous verse WT uses to try to DISPROVE the Trinity actually PROVES it! -- "The LORD our God is ONE (COMPOSITE, Hebrew: echad) LORD!" )
2006 - PAULINE **GRACE** GOSPEL!! It was actually November or December 2005 when I came upon an article by Miles J. Stanford that literally felt like "scales fell off my eyes" when reading it. It actually FELT like that, no joke. My heart puttered with excitement it was so awesomely described. But then later I remembered an article by David Cloud that poo-poo'd "hyper dispensationalism," and I didn't know if what I had read by Stanford was that or not? So then I got bummed out and pulled back for awhile until I could learn more (but I could never forget that "scales falling off the eyes" feeling). But the Lord doesn't give up on us so easy as we do ourselves. By March 2006 my Christian channel went digital and I could no longer see the channel w/o getting cable, so I got basic cable and not only got that channel back, but a 2nd Christian channel to boot! And there was a Bible teacher on that 2nd channel I had never heard of, a simple down-home older fellow, and I started watching. He takes the Bible verse by verse from beginning to end and starts all over again (Les Feldick). Well, guess what, TOTAL PAULINE GRACE from top to bottom, inside out and backwards: GRACE GRACE GRACE GRACE! = "GRACE + NOTHING!" as he is so famous for saying. I totally "got" what TOTAL GRACE meant!
2006 - JESUS IS JEHOVAH -- August to be exact. The Holy Spirit put a "burden" on my spirit... it went on for two weeks straight, day and night, I actually felt SO GRIEVED that I had "wasted" so many years in WT-Land getting to know "Jehovah" and not "Jesus"... and even though I never said it outloud, this thought was grieving over and over in my spirit those two weeks, "Wouldn't it be great if Jesus WAS Jehovah and then that would mean I actually KNEW JESUS ALL ALONG!!!" ;-) That was on a Friday, the end of the two week grieving, and I flipped on the TV to the Christian channel, and at **THAT INSTANT** I heard my fav Bible teacher (Les/see above) say, "JESUS IS JEHOVAH." !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I thought I would shout for joy and fall over on the floor at the same time! WHAT TIMING!!! Only God and the Holy Spirit make PERFECT TIMING events like that happen! I had NEVER heard ANYBODY EVER say that on Christian TV in the prior 4-8 years I had been watching (4 years very part time, 4 years after that full time). To say the least, I was ecstatic and KNEW God had set the whole thing up, the grieving burden, the thoughts, the answer/confirmation! Of course later I learned all the scriptural reasons that is so, but for THAT MOMENT, that was ALL the CONFIRMATION I needed!
Who needs a "Progressive ORG" when you have a PROGRESSIVE PERSONAL LORD to teach you as you are ready? ;-)
----------------------
And, if interested, here's one more story for Undf... it will take LONGER to describe...
YEAR UNKNOWN -- It was somewhere in time after late 2004 when I began cleaning out my file cabinets from a lifetime of papers/files, etc. (including throwing out all the tons of WT lit that had been in the utility room for years) and it was also sometime after I was studying along with the Feldick Bible classes on TV which I began doing around Spring of 2006 and had learned about GRACE. But at some point in time, I had another of those "Holy Spirit burden/grieving spells" again. I now knew about GRACE but was grieving about...
When was I really saved? Was I saved in the old days BEFORE I met the JWs? (Believe it or not, back in December 1976, after searching for several years, I saw some Christian tracts in the post office and took one home, read it, got on my knees in my apt. living room, and prayed the "sinner's prayer." There were no angels singing nor any "liquid love" flowing that I could sense, so I didn't think it "worked" and I felt "rejected." I expected to be be a "new person" instantly, per the tract, to FEEL different, etc. But I didn't. (In that way I think Christian tracts can be misleading. I took it literally. I didn't understand what "new creation" meant at the time).
Then, the VERY NEXT MONTH, January 1977, which was ONE MONTH after saying that Sinner's Prayer in Dec. 1976, was when I met my FIRST JW ever, a fellow workmate. ;-/ I did not "join up" with them at that time, it would be two years later. But he gave me a Biblle and a Truth book and the "Make Sure" book.
So somewhere around 2006-2007 I was terribly bothered as to why I had ever ended up with the JWs?
**Was it because of unbelief when I thought I had been rejected by God after the sinner's prayer, and thought "There must be more to it than this Sinner's Prayer"?
**Or did I end up with them because I really WAS saved at that time and the Devil came along with a cult within ONE MONTH to snatch me away?
**Or did I myself "open the door" and let him in? Was it my fault for lack of belief in the prayer I had said?
**Or had the Lord wanted me to end up w/JWs for whatever purpose? (I thought all these years later: One sure-fire way to appreciate GRACE later is to have been in a LEGALISTIC religion FIRST! If anybody needs Grace at this stage in life, it is definitely me.)
All these things went back and forth in my head for some time. It was a drag, too. Had I always been saved since 1976? Or was I only saved in the past few years of the decade of 2000?
Back to 2004 -- While throwing out old letters from those file cabinets I found a letter I had typed in June 1979 to a highschool g/f after having been reading the Bible steady since March of that year '79 (it had been a "Jesus movie" at Easter time 1979 that prompted me to pick up that Bible for the first time and start reading it, all by my lonesome. In the movie they kept saying, Sanhedrin, and I had no idea what it meant. I had no reference books around, so I figured, GO TO THE SOURCE, and I started reading in Matthew and didn't stop that week until I got to the end of Revelation. I said to myself, It doesn't matter if you don't understand something, just keep reading (I didn't know about asking the HS for guidance in those days.) And it didn't matter because I was ECSTATIC anyway just from the Word itself, and was totally HOOKED! I couldn't believe ALL THESE THINGS are IN THIS BOOK, and I NEVER KNEW IT!!!! Two Thousand Years THIS BOOK has been laying around and NOBODY TOLD ME what was in it!!!!)
But in that June 1979 letter to the g/f I had witnessed to her about the Bible stuff I was learning with TONS of scriptures. I couldn't believe how many scriptures I knew and used in such a short period of time -- I used to write them out incessantly on index cards and had them plastered all over the apt. -- But at the top of the letter I had typed out a prayer I had written previously on pink paper and had kept in a "Good News" (Phillips) Bible for a few years by that time. The original pink paper version was nowhere to be found by 2004 but the later typed version of that prayer was on the top of that June 1979 letter, so I saved the FIRST PAGE of that very lengthy letter but threw out the rest of the pages in 2004. I hated to do it because of so many scriptures, but unfortunately they were interspersed with WT teaching as I also had begun reading their Truth book later that Spring which the workmate two years earlier had given me.
Now fast forward to 2006 or maybe even 2007 during the "grieving" over "when was I ever really saved? was I saved?" etc., and I AGAIN came across that same one-page typed letter and was going to just throw it out finally, figured I didn't need to hang on to it anymore. I knew that prayer was at the top but I remembered that it was very mushy, very personal, VERY emotional and almost embarrassing and didn't want to read it, I just wanted to get rid of everything from my past... I wanted it ALL GONE.
So by this point I had that one page letter RIGHT ON TOP of the SHREDDER and I was LOWERING it INTO THE SHREDDER when the Holy Spirit said, STOP!!!!! -- WOW! It was Unmistakable. STOP!!!!!! -- So I KNEW I was supposed to STOP the shredder and sat there for a few seconds staring at the paper. I didn't want to read that letter again, or the embarrassing prayer. But I did anyway, OBVIOUSLY! ... and I was freaked! Actually I began sobbing. THAT PRAYER at the top of that letter was *****THE PRAYER***** I said back on Dec. 2, 1976 asking for salvation. I had even preserved/typed the DATE on it which is WHY I KNOW, DECEMBER 2, 1976!!! The prayer included the portions of the Sinners Prayer from that first Christian tract I had ever seen, so loooonnnng ago, along with my own pleas added to it (the embarrassing parts. I was in SO MUCH emotional pain back in those days, the child abuse, etc. etc.).
The best part was that this prayer that I had originally written on pink paper on 12/2/1976 included the correct basis for Christian belief and salvation, ie, that I am a sinner in need of salvation, that Jesus died for my sins, was buried, and rose again the third day!!! and that I believed it all! and wanted Him to be my Lord and Savior, etc. And now here, all these years later, was the Holy Spirit at the PERFECT TIME saying STOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (DON'T SHRED IT!!!!) because He KNEW it would be a PRECIOUS THING for me if I would just REALIZE what it truly was... It was MY SALVATION "CERTIFICATE," so to speak, mushy embarrassing parts and all... AND... He was CONFIRMING **TO ME** -- JUST **FOR ME** PERSONALLY -- that...
YES! I WAS SAVED back on DECEMBER 2nd, 1976, right in my apt. living room floor with that Christian tract and Sinners Prayer, and that...
YES! I had been saved even though I didn't "FEEL" saved at that time, and...
YES! I had been saved even though I FELT I had been "Rejected" because no "liquid love," no "instant new person" change, etc. and...
YES! I had been saved even w/my doubt when I thought it "hadn't worked" and that, "There must be MORE to it than this???" and...
YES! I had been saved even though I later ended up with the JWs for 11 years, and...
YES! I had been saved even through the subsequent 14 years after I left WT I spent in BONDAGE to Mr. Wrong! and...
YES! The Lord Himself had ALL ALONG *****HONORED****** my prayer for Salvation that VERY night of 12/2/1976 even though I DIDN'T HAVE A CLUE myself what was going on, and I didn't even honor it myself!! (see all of the above)...
But *****HE***** HONORED IT and had "KEPT ME SAFE" ALL those many long Up-and-Down, In-and-Out years ****BY HIS GRACE!!!****
That's ETERNAL SECURITY, BABY!!!
And in that second of reading the prayer again and seeing what it said, for the FIRST time since Dec. 2, 1976, I KNEW but I KNEW but I KNEW I WAS and HAD BEEN "ETERNALLY" SAVED BY GRACE All those Years!!!!
Praise the Lord - Literally! Glory be to God in the Highest!
(I just can't get over how the Holy Spirit STOPPED me in THE INSTANT before that paper & salvation prayer went into the shredder! WOW! Talk about Abraham with the knife, lowering it down toward Isaac before God stepped in and said STOP!!!!! The Lord seems to LOVE that Last Minute stuff!!!)
------------
If anyone ever wonders HOW does God answer prayer? THAT's HOW!
It's ALL IN THE TIMING, baby! That's HOLY SPIRIT TIMING -- Unmistakable!
------------
Another reason it was important to me and all the grieving over it was because I had/have a "born again since she was 10" Christian lady friend who had told me several years ago, "You couldn't have ever been saved or you never would have gone off with Mr. So-and-So..." That upset me for a LONG time. Hurt actually, and naturally made me doubt EVERYTHING!
But GOD IS GOOD, GRACIOUS and KIND, and HE does NOT obviously SHARE the same opinion of THAT lady friend! Ha! Fantastic! ;-D
---------------
So those are some of all the wonderful things God has done for me in the past few years. What is SO GREAT is how PERSONALLY He does things FOR YOU INDIVIDUALLY. I just LOVE THAT! The Holy Spirit opens ALL of my bottle/jar caps, too, that I can never get open! ;-)
---------------
Now I could add some SPIRITUAL WARFARE stories, too, but that would be another LONG story... Just know when you start actively EXPOSING the DEVIL's DIRTY LITTLE SECRETS, WATCH OUT! Oh boy Oh boy you better watch out 'cuz he will start throwing road blocks and boulders at you left and right! It actually started in Fall 2004 -- same time I grabbed hold of the rapture, and after the three hurricanes of 2004, and Mr. Wrong showed up a YEAR LATER and threw a rock at my window! etc. -- and Masons began coming out of the woodwork! It seemed everywhere I turned there was another Mason! It freaked me out at first until I realized, "HEY STUPID! These are EVANGELIZING and WAKE 'EM UP OPPS!" So I turned it around on the Devil, naa naaa! which makes him even madder!
Then more hindrances started afresh in 2005 after I put forth a major effort toward the Lord's work that summer and the Devil came a roaring again... that went on an entire year through Fall of 2006 so I finally called a prayer line when I was totally fritzed at the end of my wits... then a little breather for awhile, and then more "fun and games" 2007, 2008 and continuing... It pays to have prayer warriors on your team, that's for sure!
It got so bad recently I was totally ready to GIVE UP for good, just QUIT TRYING, and not do a single thing further (Jeremiah, you know. Jonah, too!). But within ONE DAY of the "last straw" the Lord did another miracle (to me, awesomely answering prayer in His OWN SPECIAL PERSONALIZED WAY that NOBODY could know but YOU AND HIM), well guess what? I'm UP and At 'em again and KNOW beyond KNOWING I am on the right path, even with the Devil yapping at my heels, which tells me, I must be CLOSE to something REALLY GOOD! He does NOT want me waking people up ( distant family and friends I'm concentrating on these days). He tried to throw me into permanent "give up/despair" mode, but the LORD CAME TO THE RESCUE within 24 hours with the answer and confirmation, "I HEAR YOU! HELP IS ON THE WAY!"
I suppose I should write a book someday instead of in threads that will disappear in a few hours if not less, lol.
Bless your heart Undf! It's great to make contact w/fellow saints years later! Got any war stories of your own? I KNOW you had some several years ago... ouch ouch!
Maybe I'll zap a PM.
Peace and GRACE to you, brother, in our Lord Jesus Christ!
/ag
And PS: Per the Question of this thread, I am not only "born again," but "ADOPTED" AS A "SON" (Daughter!) -- which I love even better than "born again"! From what I now understand and believe, ADOPTED is actually the position for the church age believers!
didn't mean for the whole last half to be in bold. ;-/ -
14
Good thoughts for tough times
by daniel-p ini'm finally getting to a point where i can read the bible without having the wts lean over my shoulder telling me how to read it.
here are some thoughts:.
although i no longer consider myself a witness, and have not joined any other christian religion, i occasionally read the bible, particularly jesus' words, for comfort.
-
-
abbagail
'I can't remove entirely the deep, primal tingling I get when I hear Jesus' words, nor do I want to."
Excellent! and congrats!
"I don't understand it, and I may never understand it: the nature and needs of my own spirituality."
Maybe the "tingling" comes because of this:
(KJV) Hebrews 4:12 -- "For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart."
WT always seemed to use that as a negative verse, but I think it's an awesome verse, showing the power of the Holy Spirit combined with the written Word -- making it come ALIVE, I mean really ALIVE -- to give the individual reader the Tinglings! ;-) Here's hoping you have many more! -
81
What Gilead Taught ME
by AllTimeJeff inthey mean the leadership.
all of this is code for: one who is not ready to really study and accept how the leadership of jehovah's witnesses use the bible to their own self serving means.
but to be fair, jw's teach that most all of these characters refer to the leadership of jehovah's witnesses, the governing body.
-
-
abbagail
That was excellent, ATJ! I hope everyone reads it all the way through (and that any lurkers or newbies will be able to truly ABSORB it). You did a great job of breaking down the major points of how the GB **REALLY** uses the Bible, and the "backward-indoctrination process" that takes place.
A few crystal clear truths you brought out (not necessarily in the order you wrote them)...
[...]
...the "mature" ones who "dine on solid spiritual food" (i.e. the highly indoctrinated zealots)...
[...]
LOL on that description.
[...]
Mature" JW's is a misnomer. It has nothing to do with maturity. That is code for "willingness to believe whatever you are taught, and to follow whatever the GB says, even if they change back and forth on doctrine in a god-dishonering fasion."
[...]
...the bible is all about "Christs brothers". Please note that when the Watchtower says "Christs brothers" they mean the GB. They mean the leadership. They mean, be obediant to us, or you will be diobediant to Jehovah... and his son, whats his name?? Jesus!
[...]
... you are introduced to the highly doubtable concepts of congregation authority, how Jehovah mysteriously rules through Jesus and this group of men...
[...]
...really study and accept how the leadership of Jehovah's Witnesses use the bible to their own self serving means.
...the fact that JW's really teach that practically ALL "faithful" OT charecters from Noah and Abraham through Elijah and Elishah and David to Hezekiah are prophetic of the Presidents of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society. The one I refer to the most is as an answer to one of the questions on a Gilead test, Elijah prophetically pointed to Judge Rutherford, Elisha pointed to N H Knorr.
[...]
OH BROTHER!!! It's actually HORRIFYING to realize we believed any of it, isn't it? because it's so clear AFTER you are out of their web. Talk about a bad warped case of "Replacement Theology"!! (Some mainstream denominations teach Replacement Theology, but they replace Israel with the church-body AS A WHOLE [which is not correct either.) But WT takes it several perverted steps further by replacing OT prophets/characters with their INDIVIDUAL WT leaders. How sick is that? It's enough to make a person cringe all over with the heebie-geebies.
And you hit the nail on the head about the word "maturity" in Watchtower-speak! And the business about "Christ's brothers"... they surely did ram that down our throats... it didn't begin to regurgitate for me until the first round in the Revelation/Grand Climax book in the late 1980s... it was like all the sudden I was seeing the word "organization" in every single line of type in that book, and the "forced" interpretations were churning my stomach. The effects of Cognitive Dissonance were finally breaking through to the surface, slowing but surely.
This is also very true...
[...]
Mature ones are impatient with the immature for questioning what they are taught. Mature ones become elders, ministerial servants and pioneers more quickly because they blindly obey. To question, esp after any period of time elapsing after baptism, means you are "immature".
[...]
Yes, anyone who continued to ask too many questions after "enough time" had elapsed, it would be irksome and would cause a wave of disbelief, as if they were committing some type of "sin" for "daring to question"!
[...]
You see, on a very fundamental, foundational level, the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses (GB) don't use the bible the way JW's teach it at the door.
[...]
Well said! Any JWs still stuck in the quicksand should read that over and over and over until it starts to sink in. It is also a very good opening comment a "householder" could make to any JWs who show up at their door. It would surely spark a conversation, I would think!
As a matter of fact, much of your story/descriptions would make a perfect "outline" of "talking points" for any "householder" to use with the next JWs who come a knocking... -
19
A New Economy
by cameo-d inlooks like things have already been put in place for the new economy.. problem-reaction-solution.
order out of chaos.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgmtycx_dpy.
-
-
abbagail
"conspiracies and magical hogwash"
You say you've already done your homework. Then you must have read THEIR OWN literature, THEIR own plans, THEIR OWN documents, goals, outlines of what they have planned. They are the ones who believe in "magical mystical hogwash" based on the ancient "Mystery" religions of Egypt and Babylon.
As for conspiracies...the Word of God speaks of conspiracies, conspirator(s) over a dozen times, so it's not some far-fetched idea.
------------------------
"...I refuse to be frightened by it. You, on the other hand, reek of fear. You are floating in a sea of it. I suggest you see a doctor to help you with your overly sensitive ruffled feathers."
You are now making me chuckle. I could say you are not being very original to have to borrow my "overly sensitive ruffled feathers" comment.
So I am dyslexic and you are not very original.
Even Steven.
-------------------------
But the important thing you seem to think is fear.
It is not fearful at all to know and understand reality. It might only be fearful to anyone who doesn't understand what is happening or why, and/or where it is taking the world in the future.
So what might have been fearful or "frightening" to you was and is a blessed Welcoming Trumpet sound to those of us who are in Christ and have the Blessed Hope. -- 1st Thess. 4:14-18; Titus 2:13.
Peace Ro-B-Dar!
Is it OK if I type with hyphens? It helps my dyslexia.