herein we have a reason why jws don't discern why the world is.
progress isn't linear or consistent, therefore.
it takes some discernment - a quality lacking in shallow, knee-jerk.
The gay-rights complaints make perfect intellectual sense.
American gays are "us" in this battle; Taliban are "them".
So we can't offend any of "us" too much no matter what we
do to "them".
We x-JWs have moved past arbitrary moral standards, I would
have hoped.... "Thou Shalt Not Kill" was not inspired, it
was not from God, and it isn't really relevant to Real Life.
i ran across this in "river out of eden" by richard dawkins (pgs 131-132) yesterday and it accurately sums up why i left jws 9 months ago and, essentially, belief in a creator:.
re dna survivial: 'when the utility function-that which is being maximized--is dna survival, this is not a recipe for happiness.
so long as dna is passed on, it does not matter who or what gets hurt in the process.
This thread hits my main motive for leaving. BTW, bboy: You wouldn't be running down the intelligence of non-predators if you'd spent any amount of time with big parrots....
Recommended reading: http://talkorigins.org/
Recommended reading #2: "Non-Zero: The Logic of Human Destiny" by Robert Wright.
thanks to friends here, the our kingdom ministry october 2001 is now published on the watchtower observer.. http://watchtower.observer.org/apps/pbcs.dll/article?site=wo&date=20011018&category=doctrine4&artno=110180002&ref=ar.
yakki da.
kent.
NameWitheld: I don't know if the hours are lower because of the change in pio requirements or because it's July's report. Time is counted by service year; July and August are when pios slack off.
is there a new breed of jw emerging, i wonder?.
i know that there are lots of real brainwashed dubs around who see demons behind every car boot sale item and who scuttle off to the elders with every bit of tittle-tattle imaginable, but, i think that there is a new type of dub who quietly does just as he / she pleases.. this is what i think: many of the long-serving jw's who have seen the 1975 failure and the 1914 generation change are now approaching old age with something of a jaundiced eye, and are choosing to do their own thing in their remaining years.
in conversations i am picking up it seems that the elders are being regarded somewhat derisively by many jw's.
I don't like having been deceived. But I didn't really see a choice for myself. I'm not good at lying, even to myself; once I realized that the emperor had no clothes, the die was cast. I was out.
'Course, most of my family had preceded me in departing. So once I found that my wife wanted us to stay together (yeah!!!!!!), the rest was relatively easy....
some have wondered about where i come from on the topic of faith.
and, as we all ponder our past jw religion, and the events of the day, i need to take some time to address matters of my faith, as i look for some answers.. when adam was created, god did not wait for adam to play a guessing game and start praying.
rather, god reached out to adam.
We're wired genetically to seek out and profit from cooperative relationships with other living creatures. So when we look at the Universe, we instinctively look for a Creator with whom we can build a cooperative relationship.
Note carefully, however, that our natural desire to find a Creator is in no way tied to his actual existence. Our natural instincts and intuition are smart about some things, but they suck at cosmology.
dont know if anyone pointed this thread out already or not but its pretty fascinating.
the incredible number of posts in a short time in what is normally a pretty slow forum shows how difficult a situation this for witnesses.
there are so many interesting and wacky comments being made there, you'll just have to read it for yourself.. http://www.witnessesonline.com/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/witnessesonline/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=6&t=000092.
... spend more time living ...
Darn, that sounds good. Thanks for the reality check.
dont know if anyone pointed this thread out already or not but its pretty fascinating.
the incredible number of posts in a short time in what is normally a pretty slow forum shows how difficult a situation this for witnesses.
there are so many interesting and wacky comments being made there, you'll just have to read it for yourself.. http://www.witnessesonline.com/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/witnessesonline/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=6&t=000092.
Esmeralda: I was oversimplifying, perhaps, when I said that molesters can't serve. What I meant was, those molesters that are proven to the arbitrary standards of a committee to be guilty of molesting a child cannot serve in any official capacity ever. That's an actual administrative decision of the Society, no doubt at the behest of their ever-more-influentual lawyers.
As it happens, my stepfather actually admitted doing what he did because he knew it wouldn't be called fornication and therefore would not be grounds for DF or divorce. Only later did he realize the consequences of his confession. Furthermore, both of my sisters wrote the committee letters, so the "two witnesses" criterion was met even without the confession. I am all too aware that many guilty of molestation are found not guilty for reasons of insufficient evidence, and that many more are never brought before a commitee.
I don't mind your trying to help me along ... in fact I appreciate it; I like you already, too ... but please realize that I'm 37, raised as a witness, a former Ministerial Servant, and far more disillusioned than the average newbie here.
*sigh* If only there weren't so much evil taking our time from what we'd rather do with our lives.
some have wondered about where i come from on the topic of faith.
and, as we all ponder our past jw religion, and the events of the day, i need to take some time to address matters of my faith, as i look for some answers.. when adam was created, god did not wait for adam to play a guessing game and start praying.
rather, god reached out to adam.
Even perhaps before reading "The Selfish Gene", read "Non-Zero: The Logic of Human Destiny" and "The Moral Animal" by Robert Wright. The field of evolutionary psychology is fascinating and enlightening. Those two books by Wright brought me more joy and insight than all my decades of JW indoctrination.
i'm pondering whether to go back to my congregation of record and make an issue of my departure, or just carry on with my new and happy non-jw life.. i'm sure that there are many here who have followed each of these paths.. what advice would you offer?
Thomas: Beautiful mental picture there, of your speaking out of turn. The whole congregation will remember you vividly for many, many years.
Esmeralda: Thanks for the reminder. I still have three brothers who are going to meetings; one of them is independent enough to stay in touch with me no matter what the JW org says, but the other two may not. I'll have to consider what I'm willing to give up before I go ahead with any approach.
some have wondered about where i come from on the topic of faith.
and, as we all ponder our past jw religion, and the events of the day, i need to take some time to address matters of my faith, as i look for some answers.. when adam was created, god did not wait for adam to play a guessing game and start praying.
rather, god reached out to adam.
Amazing, and anyone else struggling with creation questions:
I strongly -- nay, very strongly -- recommend that you run, not walk, to visit http://talkorigins.org and start reading. The discussions of modern genetics as evidence of lack of intelligent creation were among the most influential factors in my decision to let go of the JW belief system. You may not be so moved, but you owe it to yourself to read.
"Evolution has no proof, only evidence. But creation doesn't even have that."
PS: For those of you unfamiliar with Usenet, "talk.origins" is a discussion group that has played home to evolution/creation arguments for over 15 years. Anything that can be said on the subject has almost certainly been said on talk.origins, often repeatedly and at great length. In response to the endless repetition, http://talkorigins.org was set up. It presents many positions fairly.
